Are God's Ten Commandments good or bad for Christians?

  • Yes. (they are included in God's the Law of Love, and in the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-33)

    Votes: 16 94.1%
  • No they are not good

    Votes: 1 5.9%
  • Some of them are good

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    17

BobRyan

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Where does the writing with His finger say to love?
Pretty much all of Christendom admits that the first 4 commandments deal with Love for God (also found in Deut 6:5) and the last six with Love for your neighbor (as found in Lev 19:18)


So, If Jesus gave 2 commandments to love.
Which we find in Lev 19:18 and Deut 6:5
It's seemingly clear that the 10 would be fulfilled by them
"IF YOU LOVE Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15.

Love Keeps God's commandments - by keeping God's commandments. Not by deleting/downsizing them.

Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

SDA substitute scriptures of the words "keep my commandments" with the commandments of Jesus Christ.
SDAs believe Christ is God - speaking His Commandments at Sinai as Paul points out in his repeat of the Jer 31:31-34 NEW Covenant - that we read in Heb 8:6-12. When scripture says "Love Me and KEEP my Commandments" in John 14 -- it is the same God the Son speaking as in Ex 20:6

"this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:3
 
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Jan001

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Are God's Ten Commandments good or bad for mankind?
God's specific Ten Commandments for the Israelites (it was actually more than ten; count them) were God's natural moral law tailored specifically to the Israelites who had a huge on-going problem with idolatry and obedience.

The Sabbath law was given only to the Israelites as a sign that it is God who sanctifies them. No other god has the power to sanctify them.
Deuteronomy 4:28

Exodus 31:13 “Say to the people of Israel, ‘You shall keep my sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the Lord, sanctify you.

The new covenant nullified the sabbath distinction between Israel and God. Now, according to God, there is no distinction between Jew and Greek. The Greeks did not become Jews. The Jewish converts to Christianity became as the Gentile converts to Christianity whose righteousness/sanctification came by faith and baptism, not by circumcision and sabbaths. Mark 16:16

Romans 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all and bestows his riches upon all who call upon him.

Please answer the following:

Who were the persons who troubled the Gentiles with words?

What were the words that unsettled the Gentiles?


Acts 15:24-29 Since we have heard that some persons from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, 25 it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the sake of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from unchastity. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”
 
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Jan001

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"this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:3
A Jewish ruler asked Jesus to tell him which commandments he should keep so that he could inherit eternal life.

Jesus answered:


Luke 18:18-20 And a ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 19 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. 20 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother.’”

Jesus did not tell him to keep the Sabbath. The Sabbath was not mentioned. Jesus did not keep the Sabbath laws. John 5:18
Jesus knew He could change the laws because He was the person who instituted these laws for the Israelites while they were in the desert. Exodus 31:13,
Matthew 12:8

A lawyer asked Jesus to tell him what to do so that he could inherit eternal life.

Jesus answered:


Luke 10:25-28 And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? How do you read?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And he said to him, “You have answered right; do this, and you will live.”

Jesus did not tell the lawyer that he had to keep the Sabbath so that he could inherit eternal life.

I can't find any Scriptures where Jesus commanded the Christians to keep the Jewish Sabbath. I can only find Scriptures where Jesus omits the Sabbath requirements in His commandments for what is necessary to inherit eternal life.

I know that I do not need to keep the Sabbath of the Jews in order to inherit eternal life.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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A Jewish ruler asked Jesus to tell him which commandments he should keep so that he could inherit eternal life.

Jesus answered:


Luke 18:18-20 And a ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 19 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. 20 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother.’”

Jesus did not tell him to keep the Sabbath. The Sabbath was not mentioned. Jesus did not keep the Sabbath laws. John 5:18
Jesus knew He could change the laws because He was the person who instituted these laws for the Israelites while they were in the desert. Exodus 31:13,
Matthew 12:8

A lawyer asked Jesus to tell him what to do so that he could inherit eternal life.

Jesus answered:


Luke 10:25-28 And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? How do you read?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And he said to him, “You have answered right; do this, and you will live.”

Jesus did not tell the lawyer that he had to keep the Sabbath so that he could inherit eternal life.

I can't find any Scriptures where Jesus commanded the Christians to keep the Jewish Sabbath. I can only find Scriptures where Jesus omits the Sabbath requirements in His commandments for what is necessary to inherit eternal life.

I know that I do not need to keep the Sabbath of the Jews in order to inherit eternal life.
Jesus didn't quote the other greatest commandment to love God with all our hearts, soul mind or any of the first 4 four commandments doesn't mean we can break these. Jesus was quoting the commandments He was referring to- the greatest commandments and the Ten Commandments breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12
 
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bbbbbbb

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Jesus didn't quote the other greatest commandment to love God with all our hearts, soul mind or any of the first 4 four commandments doesn't mean we can break these. Jesus was quoting the commandments He was referring to- the greatest commandments and the Ten Commandments breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12
Jesus did not limit Himself to only ten of God's commandments. In actual fact, He limited Himself to only a few as representative of the entire Law, which consists of hundreds of commandments. Using your logic, He expected the Pharisee to obey each and every commandment which God had graciously given His people, Israel, through Moses.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Jesus did not limit Himself to only ten of God's commandments. In actual fact, He limited Himself to only a few as representative of the entire Law, which consists of hundreds of commandments. Using your logic, He expected the Pharisee to obey each and every commandment which God had graciously given His people, Israel, through Moses.
No He did not limit it to them, but they were included. Many people don't fully understand the magnitude of God's perfect law the Ten Commandments. It encompasses much more than what is stated. Jesus gave examples of this from the Ten Commandments and how He relates anger with murder. Jesus wants us changed right where sin starts in the heart and if we remove anger and contempt from our hearts, thou shalt not murder would automatically be kept. If we remove lust from our hearts, thou shalt not commit adultery would automatically be kept. How many other fruits of the Spirit would be kept just changing these two things and this is only 2 of the Ten Commandments. Each commandment has a Spiritual meaning and if changed in the heart, the letter would automatically be kept. There's not many laws that Jesus taught that doesn't have an umbrella under the commandments He personally wrote and spoke- His perfect law Psa 19:7 which is what we will be judged by James 2:10-12
 
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Gary K

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No He did not limit it to them, but they were included. Many people don't fully understand the magnitude of God's perfect law the Ten Commandments. It encompasses much more than what is stated. Jesus gave examples of this from the Ten Commandments and how He relates anger with murder. Jesus wants us changed right where sin starts in the heart and if we remove anger and contempt from our hearts, thou shalt not murder would automatically be kept. If we remove lust from our hearts, thou shalt not commit adultery would automatically be kept. How many other fruits of the Spirit would be kept just changing these two things and this is only 2 of the Ten Commandments. Each commandment has a Spiritual meaning and if changed in the heart, the letter would automatically be kept. There's not many laws that Jesus taught that doesn't have an umbrella under the commandments He personally wrote and spoke- His perfect law Psa 19:7 which is what we will be judged by James 2:10-12
I would only disagree in part with this post. Getting rid of sin in our lives is God's job. It's why He gave us the NC. We can't get rid of it as it is in our own flesh. How do we get rid of that?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I would only disagree in part with this post. Getting rid of sin in our lives is God's job. It's why He gave us the NC. We can't get rid of it as it is in our own flesh. How do we get rid of that?
Not sure where you're getting where I said it was our job to get rid of sin, can you point that out please? What I was describing was the New Covenant- God's law in our hearts- changing right where sin starts. Yes, God is the one who does the changing, but we have our part though as we have to cooperate. If God does everything, then it takes away our free will.
 
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Gary K

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Not sure where you're getting where I said it was our job to get rid of sin, can you point that out please?

We have our part though as we have to cooperate. If God does everything, then it takes away our free will.
Here are your words.

if we remove anger and contempt from our hearts, thou shalt not murder would automatically be kept. If we remove lust from our hearts, thou shalt not commit adultery would automatically be kept.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Here are your words.

if we remove anger and contempt from our hearts, thou shalt not murder would automatically be kept. If we remove lust from our hearts, thou shalt not commit adultery would automatically be kept.
I thought you were more familiar with what I believe, but I guess not. Yes, it is God the one who writes His law in our hearts and minds as I stated so many times on this forum, and it is Him doing, but we still have to cooperate. I don't believe if we are angry that's God's fault and we have no part in controlling our own emotions. If God did everything, we would be robots. He changes us but it requires us to cooperate.
 
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bbbbbbb

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No He did not limit it to them, but they were included. Many people don't fully understand the magnitude of God's perfect law the Ten Commandments. It encompasses much more than what is stated. Jesus gave examples of this from the Ten Commandments and how He relates anger with murder. Jesus wants us changed right where sin starts in the heart and if we remove anger and contempt from our hearts, thou shalt not murder would automatically be kept. If we remove lust from our hearts, thou shalt not commit adultery would automatically be kept. How many other fruits of the Spirit would be kept just changing these two things and this is only 2 of the Ten Commandments. Each commandment has a Spiritual meaning and if changed in the heart, the letter would automatically be kept. There's not many laws that Jesus taught that doesn't have an umbrella under the commandments He personally wrote and spoke- His perfect law Psa 19:7 which is what we will be judged by James 2:10-12
God's "perfect" law is not limited to only ten commandments, as some folks, such as yourself, seem to believe. Psalms 19 and 119 make it crystal clear that the law that God gave to His people, Israel, through Moses, consists of each and every of the hundreds of commandments. Those who would pick and choose some of those commandments and separate them from the others are guilty of either serious ignorance or of willful disobedience. Which of these are you guilty of?
 
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Gary K

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I thought you were more familiar with what I believe, but I guess not. Yes, it is God the one who writes His law in our hearts and minds as I stated so many times on this forum, and it is Him doing, but we still have to cooperate. I don't believe if we are angry that's God's fault and we have no part in controlling our own emotions. If God did everything, we would be robots. He changes us but it requires us to cooperate.
I think you need to listen to Morris Venden's sermons on Sanctification by faith alone. You can download and/or listen to them on americanchristianministries.org. He has 2 series of sermons on it on that site. Sanctification by faith alone 1 and 2.

I have learned a lot from him. After I started putting his ideas into practice my life has changed radically for the better.
 
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Jan001

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Jesus didn't quote the other greatest commandment to love God with all our hearts, soul mind or any of the first 4 four commandments doesn't mean we can break these. Jesus was quoting the commandments He was referring to- the greatest commandments and the Ten Commandments breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12
Jesus showed us these two greatest commandments in action in His answers. A person cannot truly love God with his whole heart, mind, soul, and strength unless he first loves his neighbor as himself.

Galatians 5:14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

James 2:8-9 If you really fulfil the royal law, according to the scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well. 9 But if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors.

1 John 4:20 If any one says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.


Hosea prophesizes that God will put an end to the sabbaths of the Israelites/Jews. God did this again with finality in AD 70 when He destroyed the temple and Jerusalem because the Jews rejected His Son as their Messiah.

Hosea 2:10-12
Now I will uncover her lewdness
in the sight of her lovers,
and no one shall rescue her out of my hand.
11 And I will put an end to all her mirth,
her feasts, her new moons, her sabbaths,

and all her appointed feasts.
12 And I will lay waste her vines and her fig trees,
of which she said,
‘These are my hire,
which my lovers have given me.’
I will make them a forest,
and the beasts of the field shall devour them.

Isaiah 1:13-15
Bring no more futile sacrifices;
Incense is an abomination to Me.
The New Moons, the Sabbaths, and the calling of assemblies
I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred meeting.
14 Your New Moons and your appointed feasts
My soul hates
;

They are a trouble to Me,
I am weary of bearing them.
15 When you spread out your hands,
I will hide My eyes from you;
Even though you make many prayers,
I will not hear.
Your hands are full of blood.


Luke 13:34 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing!

Acts 7:51-53 “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you. 52 Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who foretold the coming of the Just One, of whom you now have become the betrayers and murderers, 53 who have received the law by the direction of angels and have not kept it.
 
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Jan001

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Jesus didn't quote the other greatest commandment to love God with all our hearts, soul mind or any of the first 4 four commandments doesn't mean we can break these. Jesus was quoting the commandments He was referring to- the greatest commandments and the Ten Commandments breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12
What do you think the following Scripture passage means?

Colossians 2:11-23 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.

20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.
 
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Gary K

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What do you think the following Scripture passage means?

Colossians 2:11-23 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.

20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.
Let's look at the new covenant.

Jeremiah 31: 31 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Let's look at the results of the NC. It's that everyone who participates in the NC has God's law written in their hearts. Jeremiah was a Jew and he could have only understood that to include the 4th commandment. And the result was no one would have to teach anyone about God because they would all know Him. How did they come to know Him? By having the law of God written in their heart. It's who He is.

What did Jesus say about this?

John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

So salvation is all about having a close intimate relationship to God. How do we achieve this? By Bible study, lots of prayer, and telling others about what God has done for us..
 
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Jan001

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Let's look at the results of the NC. It's that everyone who participates in the NC has God's law written in their hearts. Jeremiah was a Jew and he could have only understood that to include the 4th commandment. And the result was no one would have to teach anyone about God because they would all know Him. How did they come to know Him? By having the law of God written in their heart. It's who He is.
You did not answer my question. What does the following Scripture specifically mean?

Colossians 2:16-20 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.

20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations


Why do you as a Christian, subject yourself to the regulations of the festivals, new moons, and sabbaths of the Jews who rejected Jesus Christ?
 
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Gary K

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You did not answer my question. What does the following Scripture specifically mean?

Colossians 2:16-20 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.

20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations


Why do you as a Christian, subject yourself to the regulations of the festivals, new moons, and sabbaths of the Jews who rejected Jesus Christ?
My post answered the implied question in your post. God's law is written in our hearts through the NC and that includes all 10 commandments not just nine of them. That results in what Jesus said about life eternal coming from knowing the Father and Jesus.

I don't see the point of addressing each and every point you make as that has just proven to degrade into pointless discussion. The core point, which I addressed, solves the entire issue.
 
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bbbbbbb

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My post answered the implied question in your post. God's law is written in our hearts through the NC and that includes all 10 commandments not just nine of them. That results in what Jesus said about life eternal coming from knowing the Father and Jesus.

I don't see the point of addressing each and every point you make as that has just proven to degrade into pointless discussion. The core point, which I addressed, solves the entire issue.
The irony with your assertion is that unless your teaching is given to new Christians, they do not naturally start ceasing from working on Saturdays. In fact, without written or oral teachings converts to Christianity from other religions usually carry along a lot of cultural baggage that, while not anti-Christian, is not specified in the Bible. This was a problem in the early church. An example would be polygamy. Although polygamy is not forbidden in the Law and, indeed, was practiced by the kings of Israel and Judah, it did conflict with implied teachings of the Law. Thus, it was decided at some point that polygamy could be practiced by Christians, but polygamous men could not take on the office of overseer (elder).
 
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Jan001

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My post answered the implied question in your post. God's law is written in our hearts through the NC and that includes all 10 commandments not just nine of them. That results in what Jesus said about life eternal coming from knowing the Father and Jesus.

I don't see the point of addressing each and every point you make as that has just proven to degrade into pointless discussion. The core point, which I addressed, solves the entire issue.
I, and I am sure others, have noticed that whenever we ask sabbath keepers specific questions they either deflect, denigrate, or ignore us Sunday worshippers of God. :)

You claimed you solved the entire issue. You solved nothing. You denigrated our discussion by saying it was pointless. You ignored my question by deflecting to other scriptures which are not pertinent to our discussion.

Some sabbath keepers actually completely ignore the posts even if they were posted specifically to them. They don't answer at all.

1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;

My salvation certainly does not depend on my obedience to some outdated, obsolete sabbath regulations!

Hebrews 8:13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
 
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