The Gathering of the Elect Is the Second Resurrection

precepts · Aug 22, 2016

The gathering of the elect mentioned in the Olivet discourse is the 2nd resurrection:

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Who is the elect?

Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according totheelection of grace.
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Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
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Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
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1Th 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
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2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
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Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
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2Jo 1:1 The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;
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Isa 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
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1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
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2Jo 1:13 The children of thy elect sister greet thee. Amen.

I think it's safe to say the elect is Christ, the Church, and the remnant grafted into the olive branch of Christ, the remnant saved.

The next issue is proving that the gathering of the "elect" is the 2nd resurrection, and here's the proof:

For one, the clause of This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. is what proves the gathering is the 2nd resurrection. These other verses echo the same thing, no death until the Son of Man comes on the cloud:

Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
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Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
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Luk 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

This is what proves the gathering is at the 2nd resurrection, because it is only at the 2nd resurrection when all the dead are raised and judged, the only place anyone tastes death, the real death since creation.

The Beast and the False Prophet tasted death a 1,000 yrs before everyone else, but this is where man tastes the real death for the first time, just before the entering into the new heavenly Shalem which is Christ entering into His kingdom,

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The darkening of the sun and moon and the stars falling from heaven is again the 2nd resurrection:

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying,How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake;and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Again this proves this is the 2nd resurrection because this is the "day of the Lord's wrath," "the day of the Lord," the day God avenges the blood of those under the altar who were slain for the word of God, which was the 1st resurrection.

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Again this is the 2nd death, the real death, the death Christ referenced when he spoke of the generation not tasting death or passing away until all those things were fulfilled, which is the fallen of the stars, etc..

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

The day of the coming of the Lord, what some call the 2nd coming, is the 2nd resurrection. when the "elect" are gathered.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

This is Christ coming into his kingdom. What was prophesied of those standing there in the new testament that wouldn't taste death until they saw.

For those of you who think that this was suppose to be the end of the world and the book, it's not. The "devil" that was cast into the lake of fire after the 1,000 yrs reign was not the "Devil," though he deceived the earth when he was released, but was Gog, the Prince of Grecia and one of the 4 fallen, released Euphrates angels, as was the False Prophet. The "Devil" used him and gave him his power to attack heaven like he did with the Beast and False Prophet.

The story of Lazarus and the Rich Man also proves that this is not the end of the world. Lazarus being in the lake of fire looks up and see's Lazarus in God's bosom and beckons God to send someone back to the earth to warn his brothers so that they too wouldn't end up where he's at.

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

The 3rd and final resurrection is the "wheat and tare" harvest/rapture of this physical earth into the new Shalem or the the lake of fire. There is no "throne" judgement in this final resurrection.

Food for thought!

ken777 · Aug 22, 2016

I don't know if I am reading you right but it sounds like you are referring to a "spiritual resurrection" rather than a literal resurrection such as the resurrection of Jesus (Matthew 28:6-7) and the OT saints (Matthew 27:52-53).

precepts · Aug 22, 2016

ken777 said:
I don't know if I am reading you right but it sounds like you are referring to a "spiritual resurrection" rather than a literal resurrection such as the resurrection of Jesus (Matthew 28:6-7) and the OT saints (Matthew 27:52-53).

What's a spiritual resurrection?

Revealing Times · Aug 22, 2016

precepts said:
Who is the elect?

The Elect are Christians in Heaven, verse 31 says Jesus sends his angel to gather the elect from one end of heaven to the other, we are in heaven, marrying the Lamb, just like Rev. 19 says.

precepts said:
The next issue is proving that the gathering of the "elect" is the 2nd resurrection, and here's the proof:

The Second Resurrection is the Resurrection of the Wicked. The First Resurrection is resurrection of those in Christ Jesus, at every point along the way, before the Tribulation and after the tribulation.

precepts said:
This is what proves the gathering is at the 2nd resurrection, because it is only at the 2nd resurrection when all the dead are raised and judged, the only place anyone tastes death, the real death since creation.

The Beast and the False Prophet tasted death a 1,000 yrs before everyone else, but this is where man tastes the real death for the first time, just before the entering into the new heavenly Shalem which is Christ entering into His kingdom,

WHAT ?????????? The Beast and False Prophet are cast into hell in Revelation. I just explained the First Resurrection. Rev. 20 clearly explains it.

precepts said:
The darkening of the sun and moon and the stars falling from heaven is again the 2nd resurrection:

No !!

ken777 · Aug 22, 2016

precepts said:
What's a spiritual resurrection?

I don't know what the poster actually was referring to but I suppose we could call this spiritual resurrection:

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

precepts · Aug 23, 2016

Revealing Times said:
The Elect are Christians in Heaven, verse 31 says Jesus sends his angel to gather the elect from one end of heaven to the other, we are in heaven, marrying the Lamb, just like Rev. 19 says.

When did I say it wasn't in heaven? And we are not marrying the Lamb. It is the Lamb marrying the new Shalem, that came down and replaced the old heavenly Shalem where the 1,000 yrs reign was spent. And it is the 2nd resurrection, not the first, because there is no gathering in the 1st resurrection.

Revealing Times said:
The Second Resurrection is the Resurrection of the Wicked. The First Resurrection is resurrection of those in Christ Jesus, at every point along the way, before the Tribulation and after the tribulation.

Why don't you address the facts instead of spewing out your opinion. The 1st heavenly resurrection is the great multitude, those found under the altar. That is the resurrection of the just only, all the just from the beginning of creation to up to that time. After the 1,000 yrs all the righteous dead that died after the 1st resurrection were resurrected with all the wicked from the beginning of creation to that time. That is the "Great White Throne" Judgement. And they are judged and separated, then comes the new Shalem down from the heavens of heaven and replaces the old heavenly Shalem. That is the marriage of the Lamb. So get the facts straight and stop posting things contrary to what is proven. God is not the author of confusion.

Revealing Times said:
WHAT ?????????? The Beast and False Prophet are cast into hell in Revelation.

And when and where did I say they weren't?

Revealing Times said:
I just explained the First Resurrection. Rev. 20 clearly explains it.

You just explained the first resurrection? So what about me? What did I explain?

Revealing Times said:
No !!

No is not a sufficient answer. This is a civil discussion/debate. A simple no is an insult.

precepts · Aug 23, 2016

ken777 said:
I don't know what the poster actually was referring to but I suppose we could call this spiritual resurrection:

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

God is not the author of confusion.

Psalm3704 · Aug 23, 2016

precepts said:
The gathering of the elect mentioned in the Olivet discourse is the 2nd resurrection:

You only missed the mark by a thousand years.

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The gathering after the tribulation will be the elects of the church awaiting from heaven (Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27) and the remnants of Israel on earth (Mark 13:24-27, Isaiah 49:8-26, Ezekiel 39:25-29, Jeremiah 31:1-14).

The gathering of the Jewish people back to their homeland is the same as all gatherings in the past when God brought them back to Israel. There's no resurrection or rapture involved as you can see from the scriptures below.

The only difference is, this time Christ will be waiting for them in Jerusalem when they return.

Isaiah 49:8-26 Good News Translation (GNT)
8 The Lord says to his people,

“When the time comes to save you, I will show you favor
and answer your cries for help.
I will guard and protect you
and through you make a covenant with all peoples.
I will let you settle once again
in your land that is now laid waste.
9 I will say to the prisoners, ‘Go free!’
and to those who are in darkness,
‘Come out to the light!’
They will be like sheep that graze on the hills;
10 they will never be hungry or thirsty.
Sun and desert heat will not hurt them,
for they will be led by one who loves them.
He will lead them to springs of water.

11 “I will make a highway across the mountains
and prepare a road for my people to travel.
12 My people will come from far away,
from the north and the west,
and from Aswan in the south.”

13 Sing, heavens! Shout for joy, earth!
Let the mountains burst into song!
The Lord will comfort his people;
he will have pity on his suffering people.

14 But the people of Jerusalem said,

“The Lord has abandoned us!
He has forgotten us.”

15 So the Lord answers,

“Can a woman forget her own baby
and not love the child she bore?
Even if a mother should forget her child,
I will never forget you.
16 Jerusalem, I can never forget you!
I have written your name on the palms of my hands.

17 “Those who will rebuild you are coming soon,
and those who destroyed you will leave.
18 Look around and see what is happening!
Your people are assembling—they are coming home!
As surely as I am the living God,
you will be proud of your people,
as proud as a bride is of her jewels.

19 “Your country was ruined and desolate—
but now it will be too small
for those who are coming to live there.
And those who left you in ruins
will be far removed from you.
20 Your people who were born in exile
will one day say to you,
‘This land is too small—
we need more room to live in!’
21 Then you will say to yourself,
‘Who bore all these children for me?
I lost my children and could have no more.
I was exiled and driven away—
who brought these children up?
I was left all alone—
where did these children come from?’”

22 The Sovereign Lord says to his people:

“I will signal to the nations,
and they will bring your children home.
23 Kings will be like fathers to you;
queens will be like mothers.
They will bow low before you and honor you;
they will humbly show their respect for you.
Then you will know that I am the Lord;
no one who waits for my help will be disappointed.”

24 Can you take away a soldier's loot?
Can you rescue the prisoners of a tyrant?

25 The Lord replies,

“That is just what is going to happen.
The soldier's prisoners will be taken away,
and the tyrant's loot will be seized.
I will fight against whoever fights you,
and I will rescue your children.
26 I will make your oppressors kill each other;
they will be drunk with murder and rage.
Then all people will know that I am the Lord,
the one who saves you and sets you free.
They will know that I am Israel's powerful God.”

Ezekiel 39:25-29 New King James Version (NKJV)
25 “Therefore thus says the Lord God: ‘Now I will bring back the captives of Jacob, and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name— 26 after they have borne their shame, and all their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, when they dwelt safely in their own land and no one made them afraid. 27 When I have brought them back from the peoples and gathered them out of their enemies’ lands, and I am hallowed in them in the sight of many nations, 28 then they shall know that I am the Lord their God, who sent them into captivity among the nations, but also brought them back to their land, and left none of them captive any longer. 29 And I will not hide My face from them anymore; for I shall have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel,’ says the Lord God.”

Jeremiah 31:1-14 Good News Translation (GNT)
1 The Lord says, “The time is coming when I will be the God of all the tribes of Israel, and they will be my people. 2 In the desert I showed mercy to those people who had escaped death. When the people of Israel longed for rest, 3 I appeared to them from far away. People of Israel, I have always loved you, so I continue to show you my constant love. 4 Once again I will rebuild you. Once again you will take up your tambourines and dance joyfully. 5 Once again you will plant vineyards on the hills of Samaria, and those who plant them will eat what the vineyards produce. 6 Yes, the time is coming when sentries will call out on the hills of Ephraim, ‘Let's go up to Zion, to the Lord our God.’”

7 The Lord says,
“Sing with joy for Israel,
the greatest of the nations.
Sing your song of praise,
‘The Lord has saved his people;
he has rescued all who are left.’
8 I will bring them from the north
and gather them from the ends of the earth.
The blind and the lame will come with them,
pregnant women and those about to give birth.
They will come back a great nation.
9 My people will return weeping,
praying as I lead them back.
I will guide them to streams of water,
on a smooth road where they will not stumble.
I am like a father to Israel,
and Ephraim is my oldest son.”

10 The Lord says,
“Nations, listen to me
and proclaim my words on the far-off shores.
I scattered my people, but I will gather them
and guard them as a shepherd guards his flock.
11 I have set Israel's people free
and have saved them from a mighty nation.
12 They will come and sing for joy on Mount Zion
and be delighted with my gifts—
gifts of grain and wine and olive oil,
gifts of sheep and cattle.
They will be like a well-watered garden;
they will have everything they need.
13 Then the young women will dance and be happy,
and men, young and old, will rejoice.
I will comfort them and turn their mourning into joy,
their sorrow into gladness.
14 I will fill the priests with the richest food
and satisfy all the needs of my people.
I, the Lord, have spoken.”

_______________________________________________

So where is the resurrection if it's not after the tribulation you ask? It happens before the tribulation, mentioned also by Isaiah.

Isaiah 26:19 - 27:1 New King James Version (NKJV)
19 Your dead shall live;
Together with my dead body they shall arise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs,
And the earth shall cast out the dead.

20 Come, my people, enter your chambers,
And shut your doors behind you;
Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment,
Until the indignation is past.

21 For behold, the Lord comes out of His place
To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;
The earth will also disclose her blood,
And will no more cover her slain.

1 In that day the Lord with His severe sword, great and strong,
Will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent,
Leviathan that twisted serpent;
And He will slay the reptile that is in the sea.

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precepts · Aug 23, 2016

Psalm3704 said:
You only missed the mark by a thousand years.

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The only thing missed here is the "point" and you've missed it by that same said thousand years, so I would say your comment can be considered as trolling.

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Psalm3704 · Aug 23, 2016

precepts said:
The only thing missed here is the "point" and you've missed it by that same said thousand years, so I would say your comment can be considered as trolling.

You only think it's trolling because you don't know the differences between the 1st and 2nd resurrection. Anyone that does know, knows it's separated by a 1000 years.

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Revealing Times · Aug 23, 2016

precepts said:
When did I say it wasn't in heaven? And we are not marrying the Lamb. It is the Lamb marrying the new Shalem, that came down and replaced the old heavenly Shalem where the 1,000 yrs reign was spent. And it is the 2nd resurrection, not the first, because there is no gathering in the 1st resurrection.

This passage says the Lamb is marrying the Saints, which us the Church.Rev. 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

There is no gathering in the First Resurrection ? The Dead in Christ rise first, then we which are alive........We go to meet the Lord in the air, I would call that a gathering unto Christ Jesus.

precepts said:
Why don't you address the facts instead of spewing out your opinion. The 1st heavenly resurrection is the great multitude, those found under the altar. That is the resurrection of the just only, all the just from the beginning of creation to up to that time. After the 1,000 yrs all the righteous dead that died after the 1st resurrection were resurrected with all the wicked from the beginning of creation to that time. That is the "Great White Throne" Judgement. And they are judged and separated, then comes the new Shalem down from the heavens of heaven and replaces the old heavenly Shalem. That is the marriage of the Lamb. So get the facts straight and stop posting things contrary to what is proven. God is not the author of confusion.

My opinion is the facts. The opening of the 5th Seal is only showing the Deaths of those beheaded during the tribulation, the Bride is in Heaven having already been resurrected, even those who were alive and remained "Died" because corruption can not enter Heaven. Those under the alter were given white garments and told to "Wait" for a while. The Great Multitude came forth to heaven when Jesus called them home, before the Tribulation. Seems that the Just of old all went to Heaven when Christ was Resurrected or close to that time, he told the thief that he would be with him that day in heaven. Jesus and the great White Judgment happens twice at least, the first time, all the righteous who died in the Tribulation are raised up and rule with Jesus for a 1000 years. They are judged and the Anti-Christ and the False prophet are judged, they HAVE TO BE, God is a Righteous God and all are entitled to their day of Judgment, so if the are cast into hell immediately, they have to be tried. Then, a 1000 years later all the wicked, and those who died during the 1000 year Reign of Christ will be Judged, there will be WICKED PEOPLE on earth still, or else no people would follow Satan after he i loosed. So people alive during the 1000 year reign will have to be judged alongside the Wicked people of the whole 7000 years............Was that good enough ? Details it is............

precepts said:
And when and where did I say they weren't?

I did misread most of that quote, I thought you were saying the Beast and False Prophet were judged at the 2nd Resurrection, my pardons begged sir, but the Gathering is not at the Second Resurrection, I do not even comprehend that, maybe that's why I was confused about the Beast and False Prophet timing.

precepts said:
You just explained the first resurrection? So what about me? What did I explain?

I went back and reread your original posts. You seem to think the Day of the Lord is the Second Resurrection. You are confusing the First Resurrection with being an "Actual Set Timing" of the event, when the First Resurrection is actually all those Resurrected under Christ Jesus' Blood, before the Tribulation/those Raptured and after the Tribulation, those who died for Christ. The First Resurrection us the Resurrection of those under the blood of Christ. I am not downing you opinions, just couldn't follow them.

precepts said:
he darkening of the sun and moon and the stars falling from heaven is again the 2nd resurrection:

I will go again then since NO is not enough. The Second Resurrection is after the 1000 year Reign, the events you describe are Tribulation events/Seal Events.

precepts said:
The 3rd and final resurrection is the "wheat and tare" harvest/rapture of this physical earth into the new Shalem or the the lake of fire. There is no "throne" judgement in this final resurrection.

The Wheat and the Tares are something God has revealed unto me only recently. here is no Third Resurrection that I have ever heard of. Again, you are going by a "SET TIME of Events" Jesus was raised from the dead also, so will it be the Fourth Resurrection ? No, all the First Resurrection is, is the Resurrection of the Righteous in Christ Jesus. The Judgment of the Wicked is the Second Resurrection. Plus those that died as Righteous in Chris Jesus during the 1000 year reign.

As per the Wheat and the Tares. MANY WILL NOT AGREE....Just think on it. The What harvest can not be the Church and can only be Israel. And we know all Prophecy is about Israel. Now lets see if my theory hold up. If the Rapture was Pre-Mid or Post Tribulation, the Church would be Harvested before the Tares were bound !!! And Jesus clearly said the Tares would be bound Harvested FIRST.....Matthew 13:29 ‘No,’ he said, ‘if you pull the weeds now, you might uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At the proper time I will tell the harvesters, "First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat into my barn.""

So the Church can not be the prophesied Wheat, it can only be Israel. THEN.....We the Church can be Raptured to Heaven, come back on White horses with Jesus, BIND THE TARES, or they will be Destroyed/Killed by the presence of his coming and the Sword of Jesus' mouth (Holy Spirit) and Bundled to be Burned in 1000 years. THEN....The Wheat (Israel) can be gathered into his barn, brought in from the Wilderness unto which they fled. Amen.

precepts · Aug 23, 2016

Psalm3704 said:
You only think it's trolling because you don't know the differences between the 1st and 2nd resurrection. Anyone that does know, knows it's separated by a 1000 years.

.

Try reading comprehension.

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precepts · Aug 23, 2016

Revealing Times said:
This passage says the Lamb is marrying the Saints, which us the Church.Rev. 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

I won't argue the point because there's too much false information out there.

Revealing Times said:
There is no gathering in the First Resurrection ? The Dead in Christ rise first, then we which are alive........We go to meet the Lord in the air, I would call that a gathering unto Christ Jesus.

That is not the first resurrection. The first resurrection happened in heaven, if you had read and understood what was said.

Revealing Times said:
My opinion is the facts.

If it was, then it wouldn't be your opinion, would it?

Revealing Times said:
The opening of the 5th Seal is only showing the Deaths of those beheaded during the tribulation, the Bride is in Heaven having already been resurrected, even those who were alive and remained "Died" because corruption can not enter Heaven. Those under the alter were given white garments and told to "Wait" for a while. The Great Multitude came forth to heaven when Jesus called them home, before the Tribulation. Seems that the Just of old all went to Heaven when Christ was Resurrected or close to that time, he told the thief that he would be with him that day in heaven.

What's up with the trolling opinion?

Revealing Times said:
Jesus and the great White Judgment happens twice at least, the first time, all the righteous who died in the Tribulation are raised up and rule with Jesus for a 1000 years.

Show me where troll.

Revealing Times said:
They are judged and the Anti-Christ and the False prophet are judged, they HAVE TO BE, God is a Righteous God and all are entitled to their day of Judgment, so if the are cast into hell immediately, they have to be tried.

You are trolling, purposely posting foolishness, things contrary to what's clearly written.Show were they are judged, troll.

Revealing Times said:
Then, a 1000 years later all the wicked, and those who died during the 1000 year Reign of Christ will be Judged, there will be WICKED PEOPLE on earth still, or else no people would follow Satan after he i loosed. So people alive during the 1000 year reign will have to be judged alongside the Wicked people of the whole 7000 years............Was that good enough ? Details it is............

How do you purposely post things against God's word and not feel guilty? Provide the proofs (verses) and stop blabbing.

Revealing Times said:
I did misread most of that quote, I thought you were saying the Beast and False Prophet were judged at the 2nd Resurrection, my pardons begged sir, but the Gathering is not at the Second Resurrection, I do not even comprehend that, maybe that's why I was confused about the Beast and False Prophet timing.

Where do you get off, I don't believe you should be on this site mucking up the truth, what drives you to?

Revealing Times said:
I went back and reread your original posts. You seem to think the Day of the Lord is the Second Resurrection. You are confusing the First Resurrection with being an "Actual Set Timing" of the event, when the First Resurrection is actually all those Resurrected under Christ Jesus' Blood, before the Tribulation/those Raptured and after the Tribulation, those who died for Christ. The First Resurrection us the Resurrection of those under the blood of Christ. I am not downing you opinions, just couldn't follow them.

The point of the thread, troll, is the fulfillment of those standing there not tasting death until they saw Christ coming into his kingdom, which is the 2nd resurrection based on the White judgement and the entering in the new Shalem that follows, which is not hard to comprehend if your not a troll..

Revealing Times said:
I will go again then since NO is not enough. The Second Resurrection is after the 1000 year Reign, the events you describe are Tribulation events/Seal Events.

Again I say this is but your opinion, you replying back with opinions is the same as just saying no, I provided proof for my conclusion, you don't, that's why you are a troll, you just saying they're tribulation events don't cut, the tribulation happens after the temple and city's destruction, that's what the Olivet discourse says, "immediately after the tribulation of those" the sun will be darkened etc, which is another point made in the OP, op.

Revealing Times said:
The Wheat and the Tares are something God has revealed unto me only recently.

Only to you?

Revealing Times said:
There is no Third Resurrection that I have ever heard of. Again, you are going by a "SET TIME of Events" Jesus was raised from the dead also, so will it be the Fourth Resurrection ? No, all the First Resurrection is, is the Resurrection of the Righteous in Christ Jesus. The Judgment of the Wicked is the Second Resurrection. Plus those that died as Righteous in Chris Jesus during the 1000 year reign.

So why did I waste my time and provide the proofs?

Revealing Times said:

As per the Wheat and the Tares. MANY WILL NOT AGREE....Just think on it.

Click to expand...

Revealing Times said:
The What harvest can not be the Church and can only be Israel. And we know all Prophecy is about Israel. Now lets see if my theory hold up. If the Rapture was Pre-Mid or Post Tribulation, the Church would be Harvested before the Tares were bound !!! And Jesus clearly said the Tares would be bound Harvested FIRST.....Matthew 13:29 ‘No,’ he said, ‘if you pull the weeds now, you might uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At the proper time I will tell the harvesters, "First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat into my barn.""

So the Church can not be the prophesied Wheat, it can only be Israel. THEN.....We the Church can be Raptured to Heaven, come back on White horses with Jesus, BIND THE TARES, or they will be Destroyed/Killed by the presence of his coming and the Sword of Jesus' mouth (Holy Spirit) and Bundled to be Burned in 1000 years. THEN....The Wheat (Israel) can be gathered into his barn, brought in from the Wilderness unto which they fled. Amen.

I know you're purposely posting things that have no meaning, but this thread is not about the first resurrection or the rapture or whatever you believe is the sequence to the first resurrection, it's about the fact that the Olivet discourse is fulfilled at the second death and the entering in the new Shalem, those standing there tasting death as prophesied.

Try as may.

precepts · Aug 23, 2016

What's up with these trolls, man? Even the powers that be in this little realm of a forum are fighting against me, putting thru typos in my posts - signs of the times.

Revealing Times · Aug 23, 2016

precepts said:
I won't argue the point because there's too much false information out there.

You have no recourse so you can't argue any point.

precepts said:
That is not the first resurrection. The first resurrection happened in heaven, if you had read and understood what was said.

Sure, people die in Heaven.

precepts said:
If it was, then it wouldn't be your opinion, would it?

It is the Holy Spirits revelation, why would I listen to my own ideas ?

precepts said:
What's up with the trolling opinion?

Again, name calling doesn't change the facts.

precepts said:
Show me where troll.

Again with childlike behavior. But I an show you easily, I wouldn't have said it if I didn't know the Scriptures.

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. {{ So we have those beheaded Judged here, this is the First Resurrection. Judges sat on THRONES here to judge those Beheaded, those Raptured were already Judged no Doubt. But the dead not in Christ will not be Judged for another 1000 years, they get judged at the same time as Satan dose, the False Prophet and Anti-Christ have already been judged and cast into hell. NOW..........

Rev. 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, (1000 years later) and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

We are all Judged in the same place, no doubt. There are two judgments, 1000 years apart. Case Closed.

precepts said:
How do you purposely post things against God's word and not feel guilty? Provide the proofs (verses) and stop blabbing.

I figured a Christian would know these verses. SORRY. I can always supply the Scriptures if I tell you a Rooster dips snuff, look under the wings and you'll find the can. Same scriptures as above.

THIS IS THE ORIGINAL POST BELOW I AM HAVING TO EXPLAIN AGAIN, WITH SCRIPTURES, i figured I better post it so as not to confuse any more than you seem to be already.........ALL BLACK..........
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then, a 1000 years later all the wicked, and those who died during the 1000 year Reign of Christ will be Judged, there will be WICKED PEOPLE on earth still, or else no people would follow Satan after he i loosed. So people alive during the 1000 year reign will have to be judged alongside the Wicked people of the whole 7000 years............Was that good enough ? Details it is............
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rev. 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. {Those above are Judged immediately after Jesus returns, and the rest of the Dead are not judged until a 1000 years later. THAT'S CLEAR ENOUGH RIGHT ? Now, on to the facts, there are still wicked people on earth like I stated. }

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. { Now, would God destroy people who are not WICKED with Fire ? Satan is loosed and deceives people, so in order to deceive people, that means that humans still have a Sin Nature, only Jesus ruling and Satan being bound has kept that in check, but once Satan is loosed, there will be people that follow him, a la, WICKED PEOPLE. }

precepts said:
The point of the thread, troll, is the fulfillment of those standing there not tasting death until they saw Christ coming into his kingdom, which is the 2nd resurrection based on the White judgement and the entering in the new Shalem that follows, which is not hard to comprehend if your not a troll..

You are trying to understand this verse ? Really ? Go read John chapter 20, he tells Mary do not Touch me for I have not yet ascended to the Father, then 8 Days later he tells Thomas to come and TOUCH his wounds, so Jesus had went to Heaven, offered the Sacrifice and RETURNED. The Disciples saw Jesus coming in the Glory of his Kingdom, he was now sitting at the Right Hand of God the father. JOHN CHAPTER 20. I gave you the chapter, close enough. This verse was fulfilled when Jesus returned unto the disciples, you are going in all directions to explain a verse that you don't seem to understand. John also saw Jesus coming in Revelation, in a vision, but Jesus returning to Earth and visiting the disciples fulfilled this prophecy. Jesus clearly told the Disciple before he died if they were to receive the Holy Spirit he would have to GO AWAY, and bring it back unto them.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. ( It all fits like a glove, Jesus couldn't have breathed the Holy Spirit on them in John chapter 20, if he had not gone away to the Father. He said so Himself. So all these rings you are trying to jump through is not needed. Jesus has already fulfilled this Prophecy. )

precepts said:
Again I say this is but your opinion, you replying back with opinions is the same as just saying no, I provided proof for my conclusion, you don't, that's why you are a troll, you just saying they're tribulation events don't cut, the tribulation happens after the temple and city's destruction, that's what the Olivet discourse says, "immediately after the tribulation of those" the sun will be darkened etc, which is another point made in the OP, op.

The Events you describe happen in Rev. chapter 6, we all know they are the Seal Events, as a matter of fact they are the SIXTH SEAL. This is not in question, but I am a troll. It isn't my fault you are confused about this event.

precepts said:
Only to you?

I notice you can't deny it to be a fact. And no, I am certain God starts revealing things to His Church in many places, in these End Times. But my argument is sound, and is the only facts that fit. The Wheat can not be the Church, because if the Rapture is Pre-Mid or Post Tribulation (It is Pre) then the Church is Harvested before the Tares are bound.

precepts said:
So why did I waste my time and provide the proofs?

Wasted time is truth, but posting facts that their is a Third Resurrection, I have yet to see that in scriptures. The Second Death comes via the Second Resurrection.

precepts said:
I know you're purposely posting things that have no meaning, but this thread is not about the first resurrection or the rapture or whatever you believe is the sequence to the first resurrection, it's about the fact that the Olivet discourse is fulfilled at the second death and the entering in the new Shalem, those standing there tasting death as prophesied.

Whatever its about, you stated the Final Resurrection is the Wheat and the Tare, which I then showed is just not the case. The final Resurrection is 1000 years after the Tares are Bound.

precepts said:
The 3rd and final resurrection is the "wheat and tare" harvest/rapture of this physical earth into the new Shalem or the the lake of fire. There is no "throne" judgement in this final resurrection.

precepts · Aug 23, 2016

Revealing Times said:
Sure, people die in Heaven.

That wasn't the question. Your quoting of what you call a rapture is not the first resurrection, and you can't prove it using Revelation. That is the point.

Revealing Times said:
It is the Holy Spirits revelation, why would I listen to my own ideas ?

Please! If it was you wouldn't be in error and you would have been taught all things hidden in scripture like the Apostles were.

Revealing Times said:
Again, name calling doesn't change the facts.

It is a label established by your actions. There's a difference.

Revealing Times said:
Again with childlike behavior. But I an show you easily, I wouldn't have said it if I didn't know the Scriptures.

But you didn't. That's why it was trolling.

Revealing Times said:
Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. {{ So we have those beheaded Judged here, this is the First Resurrection. Judges sat on THRONES here to judge those Beheaded, those Raptured were already Judged no Doubt. But the dead not in Christ will not be Judged for another 1000 years, they get judged at the same time as Satan dose, the False Prophet and Anti-Christ have already been judged and cast into hell. NOW..........

This is also the resurrection of the "just." Nobody is judged because only the righteous are risen. The judgement and thrones weren't for judging the wicked because there wasn't any, but for governing. And you're dodging what I asked you to prove:

You said:

Click to expand...

Jesus and the great White Judgment happens twice at least, the first time, all the righteous who died in the Tribulation are raised up and rule with Jesus for a 1000 years.

To which I replied, "Show me were, troll," because I know it's a lie.

Revealing Times said:
Rev. 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, (1000 years later) and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

We are all Judged in the same place, no doubt. There are two judgments, 1000 years apart. Case Closed.

But you said the great White throne judgement happens at least twice, first at the first resurrection, then at the second. But the great White throne is only seen after the "devil" is thrown in the lake of fire "where the Beast and the false prophet are" after the 1,000 yrs reign, not before! So you are wrong!

"Jesus and the great White Judgment happens twice at least, the first time, all the righteous who died in the Tribulation are raised up and rule with Jesus for a 1000 years."

Revealing Times said:
I figured a Christian would know these verses. SORRY. I can always supply the Scriptures if I tell you a Rooster dips snuff, look under the wings and you'll find the can. Same scriptures as above.

THIS IS THE ORIGINAL POST BELOW I AM HAVING TO EXPLAIN AGAIN, WITH SCRIPTURES, i figured I better post it so as not to confuse any more than you seem to be already.........ALL BLACK..........
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then, a 1000 years later all the wicked, and those who died during the 1000 year Reign of Christ will be Judged, there will be WICKED PEOPLE on earth still, or else no people would follow Satan after he i loosed. So people alive during the 1000 year reign will have to be judged alongside the Wicked people of the whole 7000 years............Was that good enough ? Details it is............
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rev. 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. {Those above are Judged immediately after Jesus returns, and the rest of the Dead are not judged until a 1000 years later. THAT'S CLEAR ENOUGH RIGHT ? Now, on to the facts, there are still wicked people on earth like I stated. }

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. { Now, would God destroy people who are not WICKED with Fire ? Satan is loosed and deceives people, so in order to deceive people, that means that humans still have a Sin Nature, only Jesus ruling and Satan being bound has kept that in check, but once Satan is loosed, there will be people that follow him, a la, WICKED PEOPLE. }

When did wicked people on the earth become the issue I asked you to prove seeing OP covers that?

Revealing Times said:
You are trying to understand this verse ? Really ?

Go back and read because that's not what I said.

Revealing Times said:
Go read John chapter 20, he tells Mary do not Touch me for I have not yet ascended to the Father, then 8 Days later he tells Thomas to come and TOUCH his wounds, so Jesus had went to Heaven, offered the Sacrifice and RETURNED.

That has nothing to do with what this thread is about. And the gospels have conflicting stories, so you can't conclude that based on one of the 4 gospels.

Revealing Times said:
The Disciples saw Jesus coming in the Glory of his Kingdom, he was now sitting at the Right Hand of God the father. JOHN CHAPTER 20. I gave you the chapter, close enough. This verse was fulfilled when Jesus returned unto the disciples, you are going in all directions to explain a verse that you don't seem to understand. John also saw Jesus coming in Revelation, in a vision, but Jesus returning to Earth and visiting the disciples fulfilled this prophecy. Jesus clearly told the Disciple before he died if they were to receive the Holy Spirit he would have to GO AWAY, and bring it back unto them.

You just don't get it, do you? It's about those that were standing there not tasting death until they saw Christ coming on the clouds, sending his angels out to gather the elect with the shout of a trump that raises the dead. That is the 2nd resurrection because those standing there died and were resurrected in heaven to be gathered and judged at the great White judgment and tasted death in the lake of fire. That is what proves Christ coming into his kingdom was the entering into the new Shalem, because those standing there that died 1,000 yrs earlier witnessed the act 1,000 yrs after, after tasting death. That is the fact, and nothing you say can change that.

Revealing Times said:
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. ( It all fits like a glove, Jesus couldn't have breathed the Holy Spirit on them in John chapter 20, if he had not gone away to the Father. He said so Himself. So all these rings you are trying to jump through is not needed. Jesus has already fulfilled this Prophecy. )

You with these subliminal messages. You can't be serious if you're sending subliminal messages, hence trolling.

Revealing Times said:
The Events you describe happen in Rev. chapter 6, we all know they are the Seal Events, as a matter of fact they are the SIXTH SEAL. This is not in question, but I am a troll. It isn't my fault you are confused about this event.

You are not following. Revelation is not in chronological order. The seals being before chapter 6 has nothing to do with it, but everything to do with what's happening.

Revealing Times said:
I notice you can't deny it to be a fact. And no, I am certain God starts revealing things to His Church in many places, in these End Times. But my argument is sound, and is the only facts that fit. The Wheat can not be the Church, because if the Rapture is Pre-Mid or Post Tribulation (It is Pre) then the Church is Harvested before the Tares are bound.

Your argument is not sound because the White judgement doesn't happen twice. It happens only after the "devil" is thrown into the lake of fire where the Beast and the false prophet are. The wheat and tares harvest/resurrection is what you think is your rapture during, before, or mid a future tribulation, but the Olivet discourse's context of the tribulation is after the temple and city destruction. That is when it says "immediately after the tribulation of those days," those standing there wouldn't taste death until they saw Christ coming on the clouds, the reason why the world has been waiting for 2,000 yrs, because the context was then, they not knowing that it was a parable the same way those standing there would not taste death until they say it, the same way Christ preached the kingdom of heaven was AT Hand 2,000 yrs ago, because it's a parable. This is also why Paul said that those who fell asleep before the return of Christ would be coming back with Him, because they would be resurrected in heaven. Paul knowing that the 1st and 2nd resurrections happened in heaven and the dead of this earth raised only at the trump of God at the end of the world, which is the wheat and tares harvest into the new Shalem or the lake of fire, there being no great White throne judgement of the good and the bad in the 3rd resurrection.

Revealing Times said:
Wasted time is truth, but posting facts that their is a Third Resurrection, I have yet to see that in scriptures. The Second Death comes via the Second Resurrection.

Your great White throne judgement, yes, but there is no throne judgement in the wheat and tares resurrection/harvest.

Revealing Times said:
Whatever its about, you stated the Final Resurrection is the Wheat and the Tare, which I then showed is just not the case. The final Resurrection is 1000 years after the Tares are Bound.

It can't be because Christ said that it happens at the end of the world!

Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

There is not throne judgment at the end of this world!

Straightshot · Aug 23, 2016

MY comment

The first resurrection is to eternal life [1 Corinthians 15:51-58] .... three of these are scheduled

The second resurrection is to eternal damnation [Revelation 20:11-15] .... one of these is scheduled

There are no resurrections for anyone noted in Matthew 24:29-31 or Matthew 25:31-46

Both of these gatherings are of the mortal survivors of the coming tribulation and those found believing will enter and populate the Lord's millennial kingdom upon the earth .... those found in unbelief will be rejected

Revealing Times · Aug 23, 2016

precepts said:
You just don't get it, do you?

Here is what I get, you are an obtuse, ill-mannered person. And you are about the most clueless Christian I have ever seen on the scriptures, I don't think anyone takes you serious on the scriptures, I sure do not, and I refuse to waste my time any further chatting with someone who, imho, is clueless about the bible.

precepts · Aug 23, 2016

Revealing Times said:
Here is what I get, you are an obtuse, ill-mannered person. And you are about the most clueless Christian I have ever seen on the scriptures, I don't think anyone takes you serious on the scriptures, I sure do not, and I refuse to waste my time any further chatting with someone who, imho, is clueless about the bible.

Of course all of that is true because I pointed out your flaws and provided the facts to your last response. You can't debunk facts, so of course, you attack the person. That's basic debating knowledge.

Straightshot · Aug 23, 2016

"Of course all of that is true because I pointed out your flaws and provided the facts to your last response. You can't debunk facts, so of course, you attack the person."

What do you do? .... is your finger sore?

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