Is a smile a human thing only humans can do?

Locutus

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So basically, your take on it, is that because bad stuff happens, that means one shouldn't worship God, or any god? That you believe that God should have made everything roses and gold?

I dunno, if you're talking about Africa and similar places, there's plenty of Christians there too. And I'm quite sure they've seen their fair share of death and hardships. How about the people who were executed by ISIS? Those people have guts and courage, to lie face-down on the sand, watching their brothers and sisters die, and still refuse to denounce Christ even when offered the chance.

God made us, and without Him we wouldn't exist period. Death is a certainty, and our lives will have aches and pains, there's nothing we can do about it, but bear them and go on. Whatever ills we suffer in this life, repayment will be paid in the next, if we stay faithful and true. <100 years of painful life isn't too great a price to pay for an eternity of happiness, is it?

I don't 'believe that god should have made everything roses and gold', because I don't believe in gods full stop. My point is that theists often believe that their god planned and created everything. That necessarily includes the bad as well as the good. That's what everything means. But when the bad is pointed out, our theist friends (including yourself) will immediately resort to blaming man. This is an admission that man has god-like creative powers - creating the dark half of the equation, so this god can't actually be all powerful. If you disagree with this, and believe your god did create everything, then you're compelled to accept that means literally everything. Including creating the conditions in which evil can arise. You can't really have it both ways.

If I was about to die, and had been raised to believe in an afterlife, I'd be hanging on to my faith at the 11th hour too. Who wouldn't? This says nothing about the merits of any given dogma, you know. It's true of all faiths. We're human, after all.

100 years of painful life? how about 80 years of amazing life - the only life you know for certain that you actually have? maybe you dislike this life as much as you do because you don't value it enough.
 
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Xalith

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I don't 'believe that god should have made everything roses and gold', because I don't believe in gods full stop. My point is that theists often believe that their god planned and created everything. That necessarily includes the bad as well as the good. That's what everything means. But when the bad is pointed out, our theist friends (including yourself) will immediately resort to blaming man. This is an admission that man has god-like creative powers - creating the dark half of the equation, so this god can't actually be all powerful. If you disagree with this, and believe your god did create everything, then you're compelled to accept that means literally everything. Including creating the conditions in which evil can arise. You can't really have it both ways.

God gave man Free Will, and that is one thing He will never take away from us.

He also made us in His image, so that we have many of the traits and qualities that He has, including the ability to create things (though our ability, like everything else about us, is limited).

Problem is, man oftentimes creates things that is destructive to the environment, and if you are disputing that, then I don't know what to tell you. Look around you, see all of that pollution? What about the genetically modified organisms that we've made? What about the superbugs that we've caused to exist, because of our over-use of antibacterial agents?

That is why the Bible says that there will come a time when God Himself (in the form of Christ) is going to have to come again, this time to purge the world of the evil that man has wrought in it, otherwise no flesh could possibly be saved (the entire world would become uninhabitable).

Man has that ability right now, to destroy all life on Earth. We are capable of that, in fact, we're careening towards that right now, with several itchy button-fingers hovering over buttons. Anybody who studies the Middle East knows that WW3 is brewing right now.

WW2 ended with a huge KABOOM (two of them in fact), and we all took a collective gasp and said "what are we DOING!?" and since then, we've all held back from flexing this muscle. If a WW3 were to break out, it would surely start with a similar, perhaps more powerful KABOOM -- perhaps several of them. Who knows what would happen after that.

If I was about to die, and had been raised to believe in an afterlife, I'd be hanging on to my faith at the 11th hour too. Who wouldn't? This says nothing about the merits of any given dogma, you know. It's true of all faiths. We're human, after all.

There are many people who come to the faith who were not originally born in it. There are people to this day who were born and raised Muslim but convert to Christianity. There are probably some who have done the reverse. There are people who were born and raised in Christian families that become Atheists. Being born into a certain religion or another does not guarantee or dictate what you will believe in.

100 years of painful life? how about 80 years of amazing life - the only life you know for certain that you actually have? maybe you dislike this life as much as you do because you don't value it enough.

"Amazing"? Maybe if you're a rich elite, and what exactly did you have to do to get such an "amazing" life? Most other people, who are not rich elite are oftentimes living not-so-amazing lives, constantly worrying about what happens should their car break down, or bills pile up, or a medical emergency happens while slaving away at their jobs, 30+ hours per week, so that they can pay a good portion of that money back to the government and everybody else.

As for my own life, and how much I value it... my life belongs to God, even when I didn't realize it at the time. Those who seek to keep their lives will lose it, and those who seek to give their lives up will gain eternal life. You can't deny the first part -- nobody can keep their life. Nobody. Everybody will die eventually.

So what happens should it be true that there is an afterlife? What will you say on the day that you discover it, when you've spent all of your energy living the "amazing" life that you "know" you have today, and find out you have nothing stored up for the next life?

As for me, I have faith in the next life. Even if I turn out to be wrong (I know I'm not), what, I close my eyes one day and *poof*, I cease to exist? Oh well. It's not like I'll get to ponder all the things I might have done differently.

So, recap...

If I'm wrong, I'll just poof and cease to exist.
If you're wrong... you'll have an eternity to wish you had done things differently.

That's quite the wager...
 
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Locutus

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There are many people who come to the faith who were not originally born in it. There are people to this day who were born and raised Muslim but convert to Christianity. There are probably some who have done the reverse. There are people who were born and raised in Christian families that become Atheists. Being born into a certain religion or another does not guarantee or dictate what you will believe in.
...

to my bolding: actually, the vast majority of believers adhere to the faith of their fathers. to suggest otherwise is patent nonsense, sorry. the merest glance at world distribution of faiths shows that inconvenient reality in all its glory.
 
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Locutus

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.

So, recap...

If I'm wrong, I'll just poof and cease to exist.
If you're wrong... you'll have an eternity to wish you had done things differently.

That's quite the wager...

It certainly is! And given the fact that there are some tens of thousands of known gods, and the potential for millions more unknown, you have about a 1 in a squillion chance of being right. You have an infinitely greater chance of being wrong, and worse, actually angering the real god by choosing another.

I think I'll stick with noncommittal, thanks.
 
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Xalith

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to my bolding: actually, the vast majority of believers adhere to the faith of their fathers. to suggest otherwise is patent nonsense, sorry. the merest glance at world distribution of faiths shows that inconvenient reality in all its glory.

"Majority" != "All"
 
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imperfection91

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That's if you believe in evolution and not biblical creation.
And it's *phenomenon not phynamina.
Now you can believe your ancestors were monkeys,
but I must ask, is a fart only a phenomenon of man, or monkeys fart too?
I took two cemestors of physical anthropology and never found out...
 
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Xalith

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That's if you believe in evolution and not biblical creation.
And it's *phenomenon not phynamina.
Now you can believe your ancestors were monkeys,
but I must ask, is a fart only a phenomenon of man, or monkeys fart too?
I took two cemestors of physical anthropology and never found out...

"Farting", or the release of methane gas out of the intestines, is something that many animals do (dogs are notorious for this). So I would assume that yes, like any other animal, monkeys are indeed capable of it. How often they do that, well, I've never had a monkey before, nor been around one so I couldn't tell you.
 
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roamer_1

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It certainly is! And given the fact that there are some tens of thousands of known gods, and the potential for millions more unknown, you have about a 1 in a squillion chance of being right. You have an infinitely greater chance of being wrong, and worse, actually angering the real god by choosing another.

No, that's what proof is for.
 
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Xalith

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No, that's what proof is for.

God designed the world in such a way, that absolute proof of His existence is impossible.

If there was proof, then there would be no faith.

However, there is evidence, and based upon the evidence, I'd have to say that the Christian Bible has far more evidence than any other "holy" book of any other religion out there that it is the truth.

In fact, the Christian Bible is the one that withstands test after test after test, people TRY to prove it wrong, but they just can't. They try and try and try and try, but there's never been any *proof*, scientific or otherwise, that anything the Bible says is wrong.

And they won't find it, either, try as they might.

Meanwhile, there's countless things the Bible gets right. Daniel Ch. 9 is one of my favorites. A 500+ year old prediction that works out to the very day is pretty convincing to me. And that's just scratching the surface.
 
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Xalith

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There are, however, about a hundred major contradictions in Scripture, Xalith. In addition, the biblical cosmology, with its flat earth, around which everything revolves, is completely incorrect.

The verses that people claim say Flat Earth are either misconstrued, or people just fail to put themselves in the writer's shoes. I've debated that topic hundreds of time. No, when Isaiah says a "Circle", he does not mean a flat disc, for example. Look up in the sky. Do you see a bright "circle" in the sky? I do every day, but yet I know for a fact the sun happens to be a spheroid, just like the moon which also looks like a circle in the sky.

But that's highly off-topic.
 
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Xalith

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No, I think you are right on topic, Xalith. There is no doubt about it, that the Bible preaches a flat earth,. as was common in many early cosmologies. Also, you failed to say anything about the contradictions.

The topic of this thread is "are humans the only things capable of a smile" which has nothing to do with the Bible and what it preaches. Now if you want to start a discussion somewhere else about these things, well that'd be different.

The problem with such threads, is that people tend to ignore or even refuse to consider our words on the subject, so I don't think that there'd be much point to such a thread anyways.
 
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roamer_1

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God designed the world in such a way, that absolute proof of His existence is impossible.

I think that to be untrue - He said himself that you've got to be an idiot not to see his handiwork in his creation (OK, so I paraphrased that a bit...) That is also absolute proof that most scientists are idiots. :) ...but I digress... Creation alone should be enough (and now, it is for me).

And the tremendous continuity of the Bible - not just the words, but even the encryption protecting the text... It is simply, utterly amazing in it's construction as well as it's layer after layer of meaning...

If there was proof, then there would be no faith.

As a Messianic, I have a different view of that required 'faith'... I have faith that His promises are *sure* on the basis of his proofs. I don't think that YHWH means for proof to be elusive, especially for those who seek him earnestly.

However, there is evidence, and based upon the evidence, I'd have to say that the Christian Bible has far more evidence than any other "holy" book of any other religion out there that it is the truth.

Absolutely. Without any question whatsoever. And I have read much.

In fact, the Christian Bible is the one that withstands test after test after test, people TRY to prove it wrong, but they just can't. They try and try and try and try, but there's never been any *proof*, scientific or otherwise, that anything the Bible says is wrong.

Yup.

And they won't find it, either, try as they might.

YUP.

Meanwhile, there's countless things the Bible gets right. Daniel Ch. 9 is one of my favorites. A 500+ year old prediction that works out to the very day is pretty convincing to me. And that's just scratching the surface.
[/quote]

STUNNING, right? Daniel and Isaiah are the two most provable prophetic books- Isaiah on it's own, with the Great Scroll found at Qumran, and Daniel because of the Septuagint - Both extant 200 years before Yeshua walked the earth.
Those long prophecies are kinda my bag - Predictions that land on auspicious dates that we would all recognize... To the DAY. Beyond remarkable - And well beyond the prophecies in other camps.
 
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roamer_1

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Also, you failed to say anything about the contradictions.

Xaith is right - it is off-topic. But there are no contradictions. The rabbis would tell you, if you see a contradiction, it is there to make you dig deeper... And that is true. I have argued this before, many times.

Predictably, 70% of these 'contradictions' are situational, incidental, or translational - Petty gotchas which don't stand well. 25% are legit in the text, and DO stand in the text - But these are meant to make you look - That 'He shall be called a Nazarene' is a good example - One that requires a knowledge of Hebrew culture, history, geography, and botany to resolve - and one that opens a door to more prophecy and amazing confirmation that one would otherwise miss entirely.

Another 5% are left to the true scholar, or cannot be resolved because they are prophetic... But none are contradictions.

But, here is not the place. Open a thread and ping me to it. I would be happy to oblige.
 
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tooldtocare

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I have a cat and she indeed smiles some times. Unlike dogs, she has a mind of her own. Sometimes she will jump onto my bed and walk up to my face and meow for attention. If I say, no not now, I am watching TV; she will turn around and jump off the bed. This proves she actually understood me and reacted accordingly. Cats are a lot smarter than we give them credit for.
 
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Hank77

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:)

they're so in tune, aren't they. they accommodate us unconditionally, and never fail to adapt to whatever we need to do in our human lives.

our dogs are a working breed (sheep herders), and they're insanely intelligent. they seem to know what we're thinking, what we'll do before we do it, what weather is coming, and even quite often appear to understand basic sentences. they're also stunningly obedient in the sense that the slightest hint of a signal gets a response, and each response is 100% committed. we can voice control them from a long distance, and even longer distance by hand signals or whistles. and these are untrained dogs. as in not trained for herding, only for basic domestic obedience.
My last dog was a Border Collie, he died of old age at 16. He was absolutely the most intelligent dog that ever owned me.
 
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