President Obama in Paris: Mass Shootings are Something that "Just Doesn't Happen" Outside of America
- Thread starter MoonlessNight
- Start date
NOTHING HAS CHANGED!
Far out. Much as you love the siege mentality of all this, the fact is you remain more likely to be killed by a vending machine falling on you than a terrorist attack. America did NOT have "to totally rethink its security the day after 9/11/2001." The fact that the TSA got a whole bunch of funding and engages in a massive "safety theatre" theatre operation to this day notwithstanding, the consensus among the experts is that 9/11 was a freakish, one off event. It wasn't caused by lax airport security, it was caused by intelligence failures across several levels, and those are failures that have not been addressed.
Motivated terrorists could pull off an attack anywhere at any time. They could today. They could have yesterday, they could have on September 10, 2001. The reason they DON'T is because they simply aren't much of a threat to anyone outside the middle east. Yes, terrorist attacks are terrible. That's kind of the point of them. But your concern over them and insistence that "things have changed" is simply ridiculously out of proportion to the facts.
And no, I'm not a liberal, I'm not a terrorist sympathiser, I'm someone who has studied the issue at a professional level. I contributed to Australia's post 9/11 airport security planning. I was trained and deployed in the Operational Search Battalion for the 2000 Olympics' Operation Gold, the anti-terrorism operation . I was in the Red Force for the '03 Malo Boy terrorism training exercise, which was about airport and commercial aircraft terrorist response. I was in Iraq in '05 and killed people you would call "terrorists", and had quite a few try to kill me.
I'm not basing my claims on "feelings".
edit: Lets try this a different way. How about you tell me specifically what you think has changed?
Upvote
0
I don't think we can presume what Obama meant. What matters is what he put on the record when speaking in Paris.
There's another thread about this speech and being what he said is what the world took in, I think he's embarrassing as a President to speak so foolishly when the facts demonstrate he's not done his research.
And, I think he has no concern for throwing dirt on America and from his position as its leader. Which should be something that concerns him as well, being he is the leader of this nation and yet speaks this way about it. And when it simply isn't true.
"Mass shootings are something that just doesn't happen outside of America."
Timeline of Worldwide School and Mass Shootings
Gun-related tragedies in the U.S. and around the world
The following table lists the worldwide mass and school shootings from 1996 to the present. Find the date, location, and a short description of each incident.
**This website linked below has a link in the first part of the article that links to a now defunct website/chart that tallied mass shootings world wide to December 2013. America ranked 6th. Clearly, mass shootings were happening and continue to. Especially when one just occurred in Paris, and after the prior shooting in January that left 12 dead in the Charlie Hebdo assault.
If You Look at This Chart of Top 10 Nations in the World for Mass Shootings – One Thing Jumps Out
BYKYLE BECKER(4 MONTHS AGO)|WORLD
After the tragic Charleston shooting that left 9 Americans dead, President Obama said the following:
But let’s be clear: At some point, we as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries. It doesn’t happen in other places with this kind of frequency.
But is that true?
Since most statistics on mass shootings in the world compare apples and oranges by not correcting for population, let’s get a chart that makes sense, shall we?
Boom, here we go: The Rampage Shooting Index. Taken from anow-defunct website, it assembled data from around the world to construct a per capita mass shootings index that controls for population differences. [Update:Archived databased on OECD and other statistics can be found here.]
There's another thread about this speech and being what he said is what the world took in, I think he's embarrassing as a President to speak so foolishly when the facts demonstrate he's not done his research.
And, I think he has no concern for throwing dirt on America and from his position as its leader. Which should be something that concerns him as well, being he is the leader of this nation and yet speaks this way about it. And when it simply isn't true.
"Mass shootings are something that just doesn't happen outside of America."
Timeline of Worldwide School and Mass Shootings
Gun-related tragedies in the U.S. and around the world
The following table lists the worldwide mass and school shootings from 1996 to the present. Find the date, location, and a short description of each incident.
**This website linked below has a link in the first part of the article that links to a now defunct website/chart that tallied mass shootings world wide to December 2013. America ranked 6th. Clearly, mass shootings were happening and continue to. Especially when one just occurred in Paris, and after the prior shooting in January that left 12 dead in the Charlie Hebdo assault.
If You Look at This Chart of Top 10 Nations in the World for Mass Shootings – One Thing Jumps Out
BYKYLE BECKER(4 MONTHS AGO)|WORLD
After the tragic Charleston shooting that left 9 Americans dead, President Obama said the following:
But let’s be clear: At some point, we as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries. It doesn’t happen in other places with this kind of frequency.
But is that true?
Since most statistics on mass shootings in the world compare apples and oranges by not correcting for population, let’s get a chart that makes sense, shall we?
Boom, here we go: The Rampage Shooting Index. Taken from anow-defunct website, it assembled data from around the world to construct a per capita mass shootings index that controls for population differences. [Update:Archived databased on OECD and other statistics can be found here.]
Upvote
0
LivingWordUnity
Unchanging Deposit of Faith, Traditional Catholic
Actually, there were various other terror attacks by Islamic terrorists before the attacks on 9/11/2001, including the attack on the USS Cole, Khobar Towers bombing, Black Hawk Down, and a prior terror attack on the WTC. And there have been other attacks afterward such as Fort Hood and Boston.
Upvote
0
LivingWordUnity
Unchanging Deposit of Faith, Traditional Catholic
Where's the evidence that 9/11/2001 was determined by "the experts" to be "freakish"?
The onus to provide evidence is on the one who makes the claim.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Ugh. Did they kill thousands? Did they level buildings? Then no, not really the same, are they?
"Black Hawk Down" was a movie, not a terrorist attack. The incident it was based on was not "terrorism" either. Think about the fact you have to try to rope in non terror related actions to boost the number of events you can cite.
Stop being argumentative and try actually reading what people say.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
The fact that it only happened once, and has never even been approached in scale or effectiveness again is what makes it "freakish". Beyond that, what evidence do you want?
Upvote
0
MikeK
Traditionalist Catholic
Are you being serious? Like, no gag, this is who you are, who you want to be, who you want your children to look up to?
Virtually nobody thought those rowers were going to be hit by airliners hijacked with box cutters, and both going to fall. Not the architects, not the firemen, not the trapped who came to lose their lives.
Upvote
0
SolomonVII
Well-Known Member
- Sep 4, 2003
- 23,138
- 4,918
- Country
- Canada
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- CA-Greens
It has taken some effort in order to keep 911 a rare event.
As Islamists gain territories and take over states, some with large amounts of petro-dollars readily available, terrorists will have weapons of mass destruction at their disposal.
Biological weapons especially have great capacity to spread fear and anxiety and make cities shut down with people fleeing.
Maybe it will all be okay though, and there is no need to do anything more than check for box cutters on planes, and otherwise guard against yesterday's methods for the attacks of tomorrow.
As Islamists gain territories and take over states, some with large amounts of petro-dollars readily available, terrorists will have weapons of mass destruction at their disposal.
Biological weapons especially have great capacity to spread fear and anxiety and make cities shut down with people fleeing.
Maybe it will all be okay though, and there is no need to do anything more than check for box cutters on planes, and otherwise guard against yesterday's methods for the attacks of tomorrow.
Upvote
0
LivingWordUnity
Unchanging Deposit of Faith, Traditional Catholic
This just in...
Report warns of 'unprecedented' support in U.S. for Islamic State
Report warns of 'unprecedented' support in U.S. for Islamic State
By Nolan D. McCaskill
12/01/15 11:04 AM EST
Updated 12/01/15 06:19 PM EST
The Islamic State’s mobilization in the United States has been “unprecedented,” a report released Tuesday found.
According to the George Washington University study, “Isis in America: From Retweets to Raqqa,” authorities have spoken to roughly 250 Americans who have at least attempted to travel to Syria or Iraq to join the Islamic State and have a total of 900 active probes against Islamic State supporters in every state.
Since March 2014, the report found, 71 people have been charged with Islamic State-related activity — 56 arrests have come in 2015 alone, the largest number of terrorism-related arrests since 9/11.
“The profiles of individuals involved in ISIS-related activities in the U.S. differ widely in race, age, social class, education, and family background,” the report reads. “Their motivations are equally diverse and deny easy analysis.”
(Read more)
And that's only counting the ones they know about.12/01/15 11:04 AM EST
Updated 12/01/15 06:19 PM EST
The Islamic State’s mobilization in the United States has been “unprecedented,” a report released Tuesday found.
According to the George Washington University study, “Isis in America: From Retweets to Raqqa,” authorities have spoken to roughly 250 Americans who have at least attempted to travel to Syria or Iraq to join the Islamic State and have a total of 900 active probes against Islamic State supporters in every state.
Since March 2014, the report found, 71 people have been charged with Islamic State-related activity — 56 arrests have come in 2015 alone, the largest number of terrorism-related arrests since 9/11.
“The profiles of individuals involved in ISIS-related activities in the U.S. differ widely in race, age, social class, education, and family background,” the report reads. “Their motivations are equally diverse and deny easy analysis.”
(Read more)
Upvote
0
If we can ridicule other politicians for saying something completely that is misconstrued - irrelevant how minute or grand - I don't see how the POTUS is free from ridicule here. Especially spouting that in area which just recently had one of the most violent terrorist attacks in Western Europe.
If you feel like defending him because what he said is not what he meant, where does the buck end with other would be politicians and former politicians?
If you feel like defending him because what he said is not what he meant, where does the buck end with other would be politicians and former politicians?
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
LivingWordUnity
Unchanging Deposit of Faith, Traditional Catholic
The left ridiculed Marco Rubio and suggested that his political career was over just because he reached for a bottle of water during a speech. But when Obama does this they bend over backwards to excuse him.
Upvote
0
- Sep 16, 2003
- 10,217
- 3,523
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Private
- Politics
- US-Others
It really is quite astounding how much certain people change their standards depending on the politician.
For an especially instructive exercise compare the comments in this thread to the comments in the thread about Ben Carson's claims about West Point.
For certain politicians the standard is "if your statements are at all misleading or confusing, you should not be in politics." For others the standard is "if I can imagine a set of related remarks which would be acceptable, then we shouldn't care about what the politician actually said."
Here President Obama said absolutely nothing about rates of mass shootings, nor did he dismiss the attacks in Paris as "freakish one off attacks." He said that mass shootings are something that just don't happen in other countries. Nothing in his later remarks clarifies that he was talking about rates or that he was distinguishing domestic crimes from international terrorism or anything like that. And there was certainly nothing suggesting (as Silvio proposes) that mass shootings "don't count" if they occur in areas where the guns used to commit them were illegal. We are told by others that he must have been talking about those things not because of anything that he said here or previously, but because that's an interpretation which could potentially save his remarks and its axiomatic that President Obama does not say foolish things.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
