Full Preterism On The Feast Of The Lord

robycop3 said:

i am trying hard to remain civil, which is hard to do when I read such garbage as you posted above. I hafta get up & walk around before replying in order to hold my temper.

Why? Because I see a total disregard of the very words of Jesus, from one who claimatabee a Christian.

First, preterism is a totally-man-made invention. When it was invented, men were somewhat ignorant of world history, and archaeology almost didn't exist. But preterism remained a very minor sub-culture among Christians, until Luis de Alcazar, a quack Spanish jeezit, wrote a book about it, in an effort to protect the pope from being labeled the antichrist. (Another false doctrine.)

Since then, many historical and archaeological discoveries **PROVE** preterism false. The events prets SAY have happened, have NOT yet happened, simple as THAT! the beast hasn't yet come; neither has the marka the beast, abomination of desolation, great trib, etc. and certainly not the return of Christ!

Saying "It happened in the spirit world" and/or "The language is symbolic/allegorical" is repeating the ignorant false excuses invented by pret quax & mountebanx who were most-likely not Christians. The whole context of Jesus' eschatological prophecies points to all the events occurring ON EARTH, save those that Scripture clearly says will occur in heaven. And that includes a physical, visible return of Jesus TO EARTH, seen by all, including those who pierced Him, as He said. it'll be the most-spectacular event ever seen by mortal man, and will be the end of the age.

And there's PLENTY of proof that ALL the prophecies Jesus made in the Olivet Discourse will LITERALLY cometa pass. Jerusalem and the temple were LITERALLY destroyed, as Jesus prophesied. there's been war and rumor of war from that day onward, as Jesus said. Christians have been persecuted and martyred from that time onward, as Jesus said. And jerusalem has been trod underfoot by gentiles from the time it was rebuilt, thru today, as Jesus said. There's simply NO BASIS for saying His other prophecies in that Discourse won't cometa pass JUST-AS-LITERALLY!

I speak out against this pret heresy and apostasy lest someone else believe it & become as eaten-up with it as YOU are. I recommend you submit yourself wholly to Jesus, and earnestly pray to Him to rid your mind of the garbage & false doctrines, and that you BELIEVE HIS WORDS which you've rejected in favor of those of Alcazar & other pret charlatans.

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Well, take another walk around and offer some biblical evidence for your opinions.
You have not responded to the verses I have provided to now, you have not responded to any alternative interpretations I have given to the odd verse you used such as Zech 14:4. I have made reference many times to John, Andrew, James and Peter and you can't seem to get to that one either.

I showed you 1 COR 15:45 and nothing...Jesus is spirit, He will always be a spirit and He will return to you in His spiritual heavenly body in the spiritual realm. You will be a spirit in the next age for you to, as it says here:
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

Again, the spiritual realm... which destroys on of your main arguments against preterism.
As for prophecy being a PHYSICAL and therefore potentially historical event... here is one of those from the Olivet Discourse.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
That was done at that time as this verse says:
23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
That is recorded as being done at that time, but thing in the spiritual realm will not be recorded in man's history because it happens and man is not aware of it.
So get mad again and really deal with this Robycop3.

Justme

Too many posts and topics to answer them all.
Leaving aside the large portions of accusation against preterists, I'd like to address the hymenaean heresy (2Timothy 2:17-18):

The context is that Hymenaeus and Philetus were able to convince some of the Christians that the resurrection had happened.
Let's assume (which should perfectly acceptable by the futurists) that the early Christians had the same understanding about resurrection that futurists have today - that it is a physical, bodily-reviving, zombie-like, universal event.
If that was so, how in the name of reason could anyone be convinced of its past occurrence - all they needed was to look around and check the graves (like Peter invites his audience in Acts 2:29). Also Paul could have easily counter it by saying: "have you seen any empty tombs, any left-behind clothes of your brothers in Christ?"

The only way Hymenaeus and Philetus could have convince the other Christians about resurrection is that back in that day, the general/true understanding was that it was NOT a physical, visible, bodily, grave opening event, but rather spiritual.

For a full discussion of the heresy I recommend this book; probably the only one of this kind:

Justme said:

Well, take another walk around and offer some biblical evidence for your opinions.
You have not responded to the verses I have provided to now, you have not responded to any alternative interpretations I have given to the odd verse you used such as Zech 14:4. I have made reference many times to John, Andrew, James and Peter and you can't seem to get to that one either.

I showed you 1 COR 15:45 and nothing...Jesus is spirit, He will always be a spirit and He will return to you in His spiritual heavenly body in the spiritual realm. You will be a spirit in the next age for you to, as it says here:
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

Again, the spiritual realm... which destroys on of your main arguments against preterism.
As for prophecy being a PHYSICAL and therefore potentially historical event... here is one of those from the Olivet Discourse.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
That was done at that time as this verse says:
23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
That is recorded as being done at that time, but thing in the spiritual realm will not be recorded in man's history because it happens and man is not aware of it.
So get mad again and really deal with this Robycop3.

Justme

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No need to deal with garbage...no amount of Lysol will make it viable; it'll only cover up the scent.

Again, your 'spiritual world' stuff is simply baloney. The words of JESUS prove it so:Matt. 24:29 "“But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.""

There is but one sun and one moon known to earthlings, so this is clearly describing events that'll occur HERE. And they obviously haven't yet occurred.

Matt. 24:30 ""And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.""

Now, where are "all the tribes of the earth" except ON EARTH? Yes, these events will occur right here on earth. To say they will occur, or have occurred anywhere else is to reject the very words of JESUS CHRIST! Those verses are quotes from HIM, not an invention of man's as preterism is.

Rev. 19:19 ""And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.""

Now, there's no doubt as to where the events of Rwv. 19 will occur...RIGHT HERE ON EARTH! This chapter fits right in with Jesus' words quoted in Matt. 24 and Luke 21. There's simply no room for any doubt they'll occur on EARTH. So, you should know what to do with your "spirit world" trash-throw it out the window.

Again, you have been deceived by the quax, mountebanx, and charlatans such as the jeezit Alcazar, and modern jabroneys such as Gentry and Sproul. All this pret landfill is phony as a Chevy F-150 & is a packa lies. You CANNOT prove one word of it.

You remain a cloud without rain-a person with a set of doctrines that don't have one quark of **PROOF**!

Yeah, of course, of course, the stars will fall to Earth, as if we have enough room for stars on our planet. Learn to read the bible in metaphor and allegory.

robycop3 said:

No need to deal with garbage...no amount of Lysol will make it viable; it'll only cover up the scent.

Again, your 'spiritual world' stuff is simply baloney. The words of JESUS prove it so:Matt. 24:29 "“But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.""

There is but one sun and one moon known to earthlings, so this is clearly describing events that'll occur HERE. And they obviously haven't yet occurred.

Matt. 24:30 ""And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.""

Now, where are "all the tribes of the earth" except ON EARTH? Yes, these events will occur right here on earth. To say they will occur, or have occurred anywhere else is to reject the very words of JESUS CHRIST! Those verses are quotes from HIM, not an invention of man's as preterism is.

Rev. 19:19 ""And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.""

Now, there's no doubt as to where the events of Rwv. 19 will occur...RIGHT HERE ON EARTH! This chapter fits right in with Jesus' words quoted in Matt. 24 and Luke 21. There's simply no room for any doubt they'll occur on EARTH. So, you should know what to do with your "spirit world" trash-throw it out the window.

Again, you have been deceived by the quax, mountebanx, and charlatans such as the jeezit Alcazar, and modern jabroneys such as Gentry and Sproul. All this pret landfill is phony as a Chevy F-150 & is a packa lies. You CANNOT prove one word of it.

You remain a cloud without rain-a person with a set of doctrines that don't have one quark of **PROOF**!

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I remember a saying we used to use perhaps in this very website... if you want to whip a futurist you just viciously slap them with a couple of bible verses. I did that with another guy on this thread and he/she put the bible between their legs and ran away. For whatever reason you seem immune to bible verses and just repeat your opinions over and over. Your opinions mean nothing in a biblical discussion, you have to use bible references of some kind, not things like "It didn't happen!" That only means it didn't happen like your denominational doctrine tells you it did... in your case your doctrine is so far out to lunch you won't have a lot of success with it.

In this post you did mention two verses ( which I explained before) so let's show you how wrong you are with those>

Again, your 'spiritual world' stuff is simply baloney. The words of JESUS prove it so:Matt. 24:29 "“But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.""

I have used this verse for years to prove that the events occur in the spiritual realm... like how would any earth dweller be aware that God is shaking the heavens for the last time???? Jesus establishes the Kingdom of Heaven as God shakes the heavens for the last time.
Hebrews 12:
25 See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? 26 At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.” 27 The words “once more” indicate the removing of what can be shaken—that is, created things—so that what cannot be shaken may remain.

28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe,

So both me and Jesus have told you that some of the 'things' Jesus talks about in His answer to Andrew, James, Peter and John take place in the realm of heaven, the spiritual realm and they are unseen by us peoples here on earth. The coming of the son, the resurrections of the dead, the being raised to heaven at death are things unseen by humans physically alive eyes because they all take place in the spiritual realm of heaven. These things are eternal things, temporal things take place on earth...

2 COR 4:18
18 So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.

You mention:
Matt. 24:30 ""And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.""

Jesus returns on the cloud as the few saw Him leave. Jesus was totally a spiritual bodied entity as He left, He will be a spiritually bodied entity when He returns. Whether Jesus is returning for the first time(PAROUSIA) immediately after the one and only great tribulation (66 to 70 AD) or if Jesus is returning to you in your personal judgment of 2 COR 5:10 after your death, Hebrews 9:27, some of the tribes on earth who realized they had missed the importance of the visitation, all of those who saw that wrath of God being dumped on them... would be mourning big time.
NO one...NO ONE will ever be physically alive when they see Jesus coming in His kingdom... only three men did that and that was the transfiguration.
So now Robycop 3 we have a verse I showed you which tells us Jesus BECAME a spirit.
45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

We know that in the age to come, eternal life, we will be a spiritual body too..

44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body

It has to be that way because Phil 3 says:
21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.
We can prove the spirit in the spiritual ralm again in Acts 9 as the bible tells of a time when Jesus returned to earth to talk to Paul:

Acts 9
3 As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”

5 “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.

“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. 6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone.
So Jesus was that spirit that He became in 1 COR 15:45, Jesus does return in the spiritual realm and therefore there will never be any physical record of a physical Jesus on planet earth... it occurs in the spiritual realm. Every week in my church;;;

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”

THE SPIRITUAL REALM ...and you won't live to see it and neither did anybody else. Hence no physical PROOF of any of it , you accept by faith.... or you make up a bunch of stuff you like better than what God left for you in the bible...that happens a lot!

1 COR 15:45 Rpbycop3... that is the camel that breaks all straw men.

robycop3 said:

Again, your 'spiritual world' stuff is simply baloney. The words of JESUS prove it so:Matt. 24:29 "“But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.""
There is but one sun and one moon known to earthlings, so this is clearly describing events that'll occur HERE. And they obviously haven't yet occurred.

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If those need a literal fulfillment, based on your statement, can you explain how exactly did this happen?
"the sun and the moon and the eleven stars are bowing themselves to me. " Gen. 37:9
I hope you see how ridiculous is your need to interpret everything literally.

robycop3 said:

Matt. 24:30 ""And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.""

Now, where are "all the tribes of the earth" except ON EARTH? Yes, these events will occur right here on earth. To say they will occur, or have occurred anywhere else is to reject the very words of JESUS CHRIST! Those verses are quotes from HIM, not an invention of man's as preterism is.

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Just translate tribes of the earth as "tribes of the land" as it should. (aka tribes of Israel) - changes the whole perspective, doesn't it?

robycop3 said:

Rev. 19:19 ""And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.""

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Please read "The Wars of the Jews" by Josephus verses 6.297-300 (aka Book 6 Chapter 5 section 3). Maybe, just maybe, it would give you some ideas.
(although, so far you proved that your investigating/reading/studying skills are less strong than your name-calling skills)

robycop3 said:

Again, your 'spiritual world' stuff is simply baloney. The words of JESUS prove it so:Matt. 24:29 "“But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.""

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How long is "immediately" to God if 1 day is 1000 years?
10 years? 5 years?
15 years?
50 years?

There is but one sun and one moon known to earthlings, so this is clearly describing events that'll occur HERE. And they obviously haven't yet occurred.

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Again and again, Your willful ignorance of how the Bible uses this language is truly breathtaking.

lutherangerman said:

Yeah, of course, of course, the stars will fall to Earth, as if we have enough room for stars on our planet. Learn to read the bible in metaphor and allegory.

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"Falling stars" has been a term for METEORS since time immemorial.

Hoosiero said:

If those need a literal fulfillment, based on your statement, can you explain how exactly did this happen?
"the sun and the moon and the eleven stars are bowing themselves to me. " Gen. 37:9
I hope you see how ridiculous is your need to interpret everything literally.

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Oh, how silly! Joseph was telling his brothers about a DREAM he had. People might see flying whales in a dream!

Just translate tribes of the earth as "tribes of the land" as it should. (aka tribes of Israel) - changes the whole perspective, doesn't it?

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Yes, to a FALSE one, as JESUS said "tribes of the EARTH".

Please read "The Wars of the Jews" by Josephus verses 6.297-300 (aka Book 6 Chapter 5 section 3). Maybe, just maybe, it would give you some ideas.
(although, so far you proved that your investigating/reading/studying skills are less strong than your name-calling skills)

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I read it years ago, and later learned Josephus had some purposes in his writings. remember, he was a rebel leader captured by the Romans, and to save his neck, he swore fealty to the Romans. He was adopted into the ruling Flavius family, and he both wanted to make the Jews look good to Vespasian, and not offend him or any member of the Flavius clan. Thus, he embellished his stories at times.

Again, you're still holding an empty bag...statements, with no proof.

parousia70 said:

How long is "immediately" to God if 1 day is 1000 years?
10 years? 5 years?
15 years?
50 years?



Again and again, Your willful ignorance of how the Bible uses this language is truly breathtaking.

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I can apply your premise to "soon" and "at hand" in the Revelation.

This is real kewl-Just Me uses the "spirit world" excuse; you use the "symbolic/allegorical language" one. Neither is worth a hoot. the simple TRUTH is, those events are still future, and you prets CANNOT prove otherwise.

robycop3 said:

Yes, to a FALSE one, as JESUS said "tribes of the EARTH".

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And this statement my friend renders our conversation on this topic useless.

robycop3 said:

"Falling stars" has been a term for METEORS since time immemorial.

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Your rigid literal reading of Revelation reminds me of that massive army of Rev 9:

16 The number of the mounted troops was twice ten thousand times ten thousand. I heard their number.

200 million horses here and the world population of horses today is estimated at 58 million. However, can you picture the morning this army strikes out from somewhere around the Euphates River. Let's say they trot off down the road 6 abreast at about 10 miles an hour. This would require a marching group of riders 66, 666 miles long. Just imagine when Hop SIngn cooks supper for the troops! Let' say Hop is having burgers. He would have to butcher 50,000 steers , each dressing out at a thousand pounds to have enough burgers for the boys. It would be 290 days before Hop Singn got the supper done as the riders showed up for supper..

Yes Robycop3 cling to the pure literal ...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Some things are literal , some things are not.................. the trick is to know the difference.

Justme

Justme said:

Your rigid literal reading of Revelation reminds me of that massive army of Rev 9:

16 The number of the mounted troops was twice ten thousand times ten thousand. I heard their number.

200 million horses here and the world population of horses today is estimated at 58 million. However, can you picture the morning this army strikes out from somewhere around the Euphates River. Let's say they trot off down the road 6 abreast at about 10 miles an hour. This would require a marching group of riders 66, 666 miles long. Just imagine when Hop SIngn cooks supper for the troops! Let' say Hop is having burgers. He would have to butcher 50,000 steers , each dressing out at a thousand pounds to have enough burgers for the boys. It would be 290 days before Hop Singn got the supper done as the riders showed up for supper..

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Several years ago, China boasted it could field an army of 200 million. Google for yourself to see. And some may well be mounted on horses. Yes, that army would hafta be fed & watered, but China manages to feed/water 1.3 billion people right now. So, don't dismiss that literal number so swiftly.

Yes Robycop3 cling to the pure literal ...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Some things are literal , some things are not.................. the trick is to know the difference.

Justme

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I might suggest you PRACTICE that trick, especially when it comes to JESUS' prophecies. So far, His prophecies in the Olivet Discourse have LITERALLY cometa pass, and there's no reason to believe the others won't.

robycop3 said:

Several years ago, China boasted it could field an army of 200 million. Google for yourself to see. And some may well be mounted on horses. Yes, that army would hafta be fed & watered, but China manages to feed/water 1.3 billion people right now. So, don't dismiss that literal number so swiftly.

I dismiss the number instantly because it is figurative. Tell me why that would be literal and these verses are not:
Matthew 24 NASB
34 Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
Acts 10:40
40 God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible,
John 21
14 This is now the third time that Jesus was manifested to the disciples, after He was raised from the dead.
2 COR 5:1
For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
Rev 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, “Write, ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!’”

Why do you have to symbolize all those Robycop3?

I might suggest you PRACTICE that trick, especially when it comes to JESUS' prophecies. So far, His prophecies in the Olivet Discourse have LITERALLY cometa pass, and there's no reason to believe the others won't.

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Jesus does not return to LIVING people. That is a fairy tale told to you by teachers that don't have the story right.
Here is a verse which pertains to the actual time in history when Jesus DOES return and the bible tells you this:
26 So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them.
OR as Luke explains:
20 Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; 21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

You can't see the kingdom of God as you live. Christ is within you and there is heaven with Christ when you physically die but you can't see any of that until you are dead...THE SPIRITUAL REALM OF HEAVEN.

Jesus come on the cloud of heaven when He said He would, immediately after the wrath of God in 66 to 70 AD, since that time people have been caught up to heaven at the time of their personal death and will continue to be. Here on earth righteous and wicked people will continue to be born live physical earth life, fall over biologically dead, be judge by Jesus 2 COR 5:10 after their death, Hebrews 9:27 and at that time taken to heaven, 2 COR 5:1. We know it is instant because Martha would be alive at the moment of the last trump, 1 COR 15:51, and Jesus told her she would NEVER DIE. Martha would LIVE her earthly life, physically die and then be taken to heaven by Jesus where Martha would be given her heavenly body from God , in which she will LIVE forever with Jesus IN heaven. 2 COR 5:1 , 1 Thess 4:17.
If you answer with "It hasn't happened yet" and nothing else concerning ALL these verses you will be able to hear the laughter clear thru your keyboard!!!!!

Justme

Hmmmm...Well, you musta Googled "China's 200 million man army" & saw I was right. As for your stuff below:

Justme said:

Jesus does not return to LIVING people. That is a fairy tale told to you by teachers that don't have the story right.
Here is a verse which pertains to the actual time in history when Jesus DOES return and the bible tells you this:
26 So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them.

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After "It happened in the spirit world" & "The language is symbolic/allegorical", this twisting of Matt. 26 is the third-most-used pret goofy excuse I've seen. Jesus' ACTUAL message in that verse is to not believe anyone who says He came quietly or in secret. PROOF? Matt. 24:27 ""For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.""

Lightning is one of the most-visible phenoms of nature, and is very sudden. Jesus' return will be as visible and sudden as lightning. Unlike you, I believe JESUS, not Alcazar.

OR as Luke explains:
20 Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; 21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

You can't see the kingdom of God as you live. Christ is within you and there is heaven with Christ when you physically die but you can't see any of that until you are dead...THE SPIRITUAL REALM OF HEAVEN.

Jesus come on the cloud of heaven when He said He would, immediately after the wrath of God in 66 to 70 AD, since that time people have been caught up to heaven at the time of their personal death and will continue to be. Here on earth righteous and wicked people will continue to be born live physical earth life, fall over biologically dead, be judge by Jesus 2 COR 5:10 after their death, Hebrews 9:27 and at that time taken to heaven, 2 COR 5:1. We know it is instant because Martha would be alive at the moment of the last trump, 1 COR 15:51, and Jesus told her she would NEVER DIE. Martha would LIVE her earthly life, physically die and then be taken to heaven by Jesus where Martha would be given her heavenly body from God , in which she will LIVE forever with Jesus IN heaven. 2 COR 5:1 , 1 Thess 4:17.
If you answer with "It hasn't happened yet" and nothing else concerning ALL these verses you will be able to hear the laughter clear thru your keyboard!!!!!

Justme

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Look upon any crowd of people & try to pick out the Christians. They don't appear any different from anyone else. But when Jesus returns, they'll be quite distinct. that's cuz He will gather them unto Himself, to the camp of the saints in Jerusalem. Then His kingdom WILL be wholly on earth, along with its Ruler, fulfilling among other things the vision God sent to Nebuchadnezzar where a boulder cut without hands, representing God's kingdom, smashes the feet & toes of the great statue representing various great empires, with the statue being reduced to dust & the boulder filling the whole world.

Again, I suggest you throw the Alcazar/Gentry/Sproul trash out the window and BELIEVE JESUS.

robycop3 said:

Hmmmm...Well, you musta Googled "China's 200 million man army" & saw I was right. As for your stuff below:
Actually no I didn't goggle that. I have no trouble a all detecting the figurative language here. You do and I told you a 'parable' which should have tipped you off, you ignore the whole thing and waltz off into the sunset believing things as far off base as the rest of your theology is.


After "It happened in the spirit world" & "The language is symbolic/allegorical", this twisting of Matt. 26 is the third-most-used pret goofy excuse I've seen. Jesus' ACTUAL message in that verse is to not believe anyone who says He came quietly or in secret.
Don't believe anybody who says He has come...AT ALL! No secret about it, if somebody says He has come they are filling you full of it. It anybody tells you He WILL come they are filling you full of it because He returns only to the recently dead. What do you think I have been quoting these verses for??? 2 COR 5:10... Hebrews 9:27, John 11:26 and 2 CPR 5:1????????? I'm not just practicing doing my numbers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PROOF? Matt. 24:27 ""For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.""

Yes, once you are dead and you meet in the spiritual realm with Jesus it will be crystal clear to you...just like lightning in the east... but you will never tell anybody back on earth.."There He is" Read Luke 16 again about the rich man and Lazurus.

Lightning is one of the most-visible phenoms of nature, and is very sudden. Jesus' return will be as visible and sudden as lightning. Unlike you, I believe JESUS, not Alcazar.

I know.... I have seen it! That is why I know we will see Jesus so easily in 2 COR 5:10.

Look upon any crowd of people & try to pick out the Christians. They don't appear any different from anyone else.

If they accept the teaching of Jesus Christ , they should ACT a little differently than your average everyday radical Islam... radical anything I guess!!!

But when Jesus returns, they'll be quite distinct. that's cuz He will gather them unto Himself, to the camp of the saints in Jerusalem.
That is not the Jerusalem!! When Jesus returns to you He will have a question for you ...apparently...
Matthew 12:37
37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

Hint: I wouldn't be telling Him your idea of what a Christian looks like, He would already KNOW!


Then His kingdom WILL be wholly on earth, along with its Ruler, fulfilling among other things the vision God sent to Nebuchadnezzar where a boulder cut without hands, representing God's kingdom, smashes the feet & toes of the great statue representing various great empires, with the statue being reduced to dust & the boulder filling the whole world.

That is so far off I wouldn't really know where to start.... Maybe you could start a charity something like the temple builder's scam to purchase steel toed boots for this statue!!!
Again, I suggest you throw the Alcazar/Gentry/Sproul trash out the window and BELIEVE JESUS.

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I'll be fine thanks.
Maybe you could look thru the verses presented to you and read the actual words from them...see where that leads you. As long as you respond to me I will continue to quote verses which do not reconcile with your doctrine... not because I have the verses quoted wrong but because your theology is wrong.

For instance maybe open your eyes real wide and read 1 COR 15:45:

45 So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

Justme

robycop3 said:

Hmmmm...Well, you musta Googled "China's 200 million man army" & saw I was right. As for your stuff below:

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I can't figure out how to 'quote' your post??????????
Let's see if this works.... NO I didn't google it I just answered using a 'parable', I thought maybe that would get thru to you.... I guess that didn't work either!!

robycop3 said:

After "It happened in the spirit world" & "The language is symbolic/allegorical", this twisting of Matt. 26 is the third-most-used pret goofy excuse I've seen. Jesus' ACTUAL message in that verse is to not believe anyone who says He came quietly or in secret. PROOF? Matt. 24:27 ""For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.""

Lightning is one of the most-visible phenoms of nature, and is very sudden. Jesus' return will be as visible and sudden as lightning. Unlike you, I believe JESUS, not Alcazar.

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There is no secret about it. When Jesus drops in on you after your death, Hebrews 9:27 in your judgment, 2 COR 5:10 you will SEE Jesus in that spiritual realm as clear as lightning in the east. Apparently He has some questions for you, Matthew 12:37...

robycop3 said:

Look upon any crowd of people & try to pick out the Christians. They don't appear any different from anyone else. But when Jesus returns, they'll be quite distinct. that's cuz He will gather them unto Himself, to the camp of the saints in Jerusalem. Then His kingdom WILL be wholly on earth, along with its Ruler, fulfilling among other things the vision God sent to Nebuchadnezzar where a boulder cut without hands, representing God's kingdom, smashes the feet & toes of the great statue representing various great empires, with the statue being reduced to dust & the boulder filling the whole world.

Again, I suggest you throw the Alcazar/Gentry/Sproul trash out the window and BELIEVE JESUS.

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Perhaps you could start up a charity program something like the temple rebuilders scam in Israel to save up some money for steel toed boots for that statue!!!

robycop3 said:

To Robycop3...with apologies for my fumbling with the posting procedure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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It seems that you have an uncanny ability to avoid the words of verses. I would like to leave 10 verses with you to explain to the people what they mean. Explain how they justify your belief system.
1 COR 15
1) 45 So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
2) 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
3)49 Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.
Col 1
4)15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Mark 13
29 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door.
5)3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John and Andrew asked him privately,
Luke 21
6)20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near.
Acts 10
7)“God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible,
John 21
8)This is now the third time that Jesus was manifested to the disciples, after He was raised from the dead.
Rev 2
9)‘Nevertheless what you have, hold fast until I come.
Matt 24
10)“Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

You tell us Jesus PAROUSIA which is immediately after the great trib has not happened yet so you should have some explanation for EACH of the above.

Justme said:

I'll be fine thanks.
Maybe you could look thru the verses presented to you and read the actual words from them...see where that leads you. As long as you respond to me I will continue to quote verses which do not reconcile with your doctrine... not because I have the verses quoted wrong but because your theology is wrong.

For instance maybe open your eyes real wide and read 1 COR 15:45:

45 So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

Justme

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1 Cor. 15:45 has nothing to do with Jesus' return. However, I posted several verses for you that DO pertain to it, showing it'll be visible, and He's returning to EARTH.