Why do people believe in a Rapture?

parousia70 · Nov 24, 2015

Riberra said:
A third temple ...

Daniel 8
13 Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said unto that certain one who spake, How long shall be the vision [concerning] the continual [burnt-offering], and the transgression that maketh desolate, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred evenings [and] mornings; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Revelation 11 (KJV)
11 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Who is going to build this temple?

iamlamad · Nov 24, 2015

parousia70 said:
Who is going to build this temple?

The JEWS of course! I suspect the stones are already hewn and ready to be placed. When they are allowed to build, it will go up quickly. They have been working for years to get ready for animal sacrifices. I have a friend that owned a ranch in New Mexico that ran a herd of Red Angus cattle. Jews came to look at the herd. They will NEED a "red heifer without spot or blemish."

iamlamad · Nov 24, 2015

Riberra said:
A third temple ...

Daniel 8
13 Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said unto that certain one who spake, How long shall be the vision [concerning] the continual [burnt-offering], and the transgression that maketh desolate, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred evenings [and] mornings; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Revelation 11 (KJV)
11 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Sorry, but the 2300 days was about the temple when Antiochus defiled it.

iamlamad · Nov 24, 2015

Riberra said:
The man of sin/AC will enter the temple and declare he is God (the abomination) shortly/ after he is miraculously healed from the deadly wound head.

You should rather read Daniel 8 and Daniel 11 which is about the Little Horn/AC.

Daniel 8

9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the glorious [land].

10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and some of the host and of the stars it cast down to the ground, and trampled upon them.

11 Yea, it magnified itself, even to the prince of the host; and it took away from him the continual [burnt-offering], and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

12 And the host was given over [to it] together with the continual [burnt-offering] through transgression; and it cast down truth to the ground, and it did [its pleasure] and prospered.

13 Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said unto that certain one who spake, How long shall be the vision [concerning] the continual [burnt-offering], and the transgression that maketh desolate, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred evenings [and] mornings; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 11:31-33

31 And forces shall stand on his part, and they shall profane the sanctuary, even the fortress, and shall take away the continual [burnt-offering], and they shall set up the abomination that maketh desolate.

32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he pervert by flatteries; but the people that know their God shall be strong, and do [exploits].

33 And they that are wise among the people shall instruct many; yet they shall fall by the sword and by flame, by captivity and by spoil, [many] days.

Daniel 9:27 is about the new covenant made 2,000 years ago by Jesus the Messiah .

You really need to learn which scriptures are about Antiochus Epiphanes and the Beast to come. Daniel 8 is about ANTIOCHUS, not the Antichrist. He was a TYPE of the Antichrist to come.

iamlamad · Nov 24, 2015

kingskid said:
I have always wondered how John the baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit from the womb, and that was before the Lord was born.

The Old Testament prophets were filled with the Holy Spirit. John is only one of them. We need to understand though, that was the Holy Spirit UPON, as the anointing, NOT the Holy Spirit within as born again people have.

iamlamad · Nov 24, 2015

parousia70 said:
Someone forgot to tell that to Paul:
1 Cor 9:20
and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law;

Someone also forgot to let the inspired writer of Hebrews in on that little factoid too:

Heb 8:13
In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

I guess I am supposed to believe that the inspired St Paul and the writer of Hebrews were wrong to claim there were Jews "under the law", and that the law was "growing old" and "becoming obsolete" and not yet vanished but indeed "ready to vanish" after the cross, because random 21st century internet opinionator Bible2 says no one was under the law after the cross because the law had vanished AT the cross...

Inspired Writers of Scripture = WRONG
Random Internet guy Bible2 = RIGHT

Yeah.... nope.

WAKE UP! Those Jews Paul preached to were under the law because they did not know any better! It was THEIR doing, not God's doing. God died for them, to set them free from sin, but they just did not know it or believe it. Those of Israel today are in the same boat: they will build a new temple, and resume the daily sacrifices once again, NOT BELIEVING that Jesus was their ultimate sacrifice. They do not know or else do not believe Hebrews: "the blood of bulls and goats can never remove the guilt of sin." Neither do they believe what Paul wrote:

Ephesians 1:7
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Short Timer · Nov 24, 2015

Riberra said:
Remember that my point was that this is the false prophet who will make signs and wonders in presence of the AC contrary to your claim in post #4065 than that will be the two witness making signs and wonders.

The two witness will prophecy and make happening all kind of plagues,they will be hated by the nations because of the plagues.

You don't consider the plagues of the two witnesses to be "Signs and wonders"????

Short Timer · Nov 24, 2015

tanzel said:
All those question mark...I don't think you asking a question to fellowship, you trying to prove a point. Thats a unrealistic question, in the first place. But I understand the story.

You said the Israelite were still in captivity.

Did the Southern tribes go into captivity at the same time as the Northern Tribes???

The nation was split, and still remains split until today, the two Southern tribes became known a Jews, the Northern Tribes as Israelite.

Kinda like Yankee and Rebel here in the states.

The Jews mostly still reject Jesus while the Israelite of the northern tribes represented by the "Samaritans" accept Jesus.

parousia70 · Nov 24, 2015

iamlamad said:
The JEWS of course! I suspect the stones are already hewn and ready to be placed. When they are allowed to build, it will go up quickly. They have been working for years to get ready for animal sacrifices. I have a friend that owned a ranch in New Mexico that ran a herd of Red Angus cattle. Jews came to look at the herd. They will NEED a "red heifer without spot or blemish."

And this future temple, built by Christ rejecting Jews, who do not have the Father either, will be "The Temple of God"..... How?

Short Timer · Nov 24, 2015

Note that no scripture says or requires that the 70 weeks (Daniel 9:24) are for the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law.

The law requires the death of the body of sin, so why does those in the trib have to literally sacrifice their body of sin while the church doesn't???

God has laws/precepts which govern his actions, if you can't explain his actions in context with those laws/precepts, then you don't understand the situation.

When Paul says "until the fulness (pleroma) of the Gentiles be come in" (Romans 11:25), he means until a full number of genetic Gentile individuals have become saved, which won't happen until near the end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Romans 11:26),

Jesus took the gospel from the Jews and gave it to the Gentiles "before" God was finished with Israel, which is why there is another week left of Daniels prophecy, but you can't explain why Jesus can't deal with the church at the same time God is dealing with Israel,

or why God stopped with Israel when Jesus came and won't start again until Jesus stops, Rapture, Fulness of Gentiles.

There's more scripture you don't understand than you do understand.

"Anti"-Christ can simply refer to anyone who is "against" the true Christ/Messiah, as in any "opponent of the Messiah" (Strong's Greek Dictionary, Word #500: antichristos), as in anyone who denies that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), or denies that Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), or denies that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The spirit of antichrist (1 John 4:3) has been working since the 1st century AD (2 Thessalonians 2:7), animating many antichrists since that time (1 John 2:18; 2 John 1:7).

But they are not "THAT ANTICHRIST", learn the difference.

Note that nothing requires that the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will ever claim to be the Messiah/Christ.

The First AC has Israel to rebuild the temple and offer sacrifices to God, he doesn't claim to be god, but points to another.

Jews believe the messiah will be another man, like Moses, they don't believe the Messiah will be God himself coming in the flesh, that is the major reason they reject the second AC who claims to be god in the flesh,

same as they rejected Jesus claim.

And with the lying signs and wonder of the first AC they will believe he is the Messiah.

Regarding the 1st seal's horseman, on the white horse (Revelation 6:1-2), that could represent the gospel of Jesus (not Jesus physically: Acts 3:21) going forth to all nations and victoriously saving souls.

The spirit doesn't teach "Could be", it teaches "Facts", if you don't know the "facts", then have a little talk with the spirit.

Gnosticism is an ancient religious movement which says that everything material is inherently evil, while only that which is pure spirit can be good.

I don't discuss Gnostic, I discuss scripture.

Short Timer · Nov 24, 2015

parousia70 said:
And this future temple, built by Christ rejecting Jews, who do not have the Father either, will be "The Temple of God"..... How?

Same way it was when they were under the OT law, and will be again for the first half of the trib.

This Grace period of the church ended the OT/law and Grace too will come to an end with the rapture of the church and Israel will go back under the OT/law to finish Daniels prophecy.

That is as plain as the differences between the OT and NT, but some "refuse" to "see" those differences,

Just as Israel refuses to see God dealing with the Gentiles under Grace from the law.

Short Timer · Nov 24, 2015

kingskid said:
I have always wondered how John the baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit from the womb, and that was before the Lord was born.

John the Baptist was "Elijah's spirit".

Short Timer · Nov 24, 2015

iamlamad said:
The JEWS of course! I suspect the stones are already hewn and ready to be placed. When they are allowed to build, it will go up quickly. They have been working for years to get ready for animal sacrifices. I have a friend that owned a ranch in New Mexico that ran a herd of Red Angus cattle. Jews came to look at the herd. They will NEED a "red heifer without spot or blemish."

In the six days war, Moshe Dyan, a General, was angry about something and a reporter kept pestering him with questions, which made him even madder,
The reporter asked that since they had capture Jerusalem would they now rebuild the temple,

he snapped back, "The temple is already build", then realizing what he had said, he turned and walked off.

Iron tools aren't allowed on site, except for laying the foundation, so all the stones have to be cut off site, and assembled on site, a "prefab" type construction.

1Ki 6:7 And the house, when it was in building, was built of stone made ready before it was brought thither: so that there was neither hammer nor axe nor any tool of iron heard in the house, while it was in building.

The altar stones can't be cut by man.

De 27:5 And there shalt thou build an altar unto the LORD thy God, an altar of stones: thou shalt not lift up any iron tool upon them.

6 Thou shalt build the altar of the LORD thy God of whole stones: and thou shalt offer burnt offerings thereon unto the LORD thy God:

I'd say Israel starting cutting/storing the stones the day after they declared independence.

BABerean2 · Nov 24, 2015

Short Timer said:
I'd say Israel starting cutting/storing the stones the day after they declared independence.

Do you believe rebuilding a temple, and renewing animal sacrifices are what God wants them to do?

.

parousia70 · Nov 24, 2015

Short Timer said:
This Grace period of the church ended the OT/law

Was that before or after Paul said this?:
1 Cor 9:20
and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law;

parousia70 · Nov 24, 2015

Short Timer said:
In the six days war, Moshe Dyan, a General, was angry about something and a reporter kept pestering him with questions, which made him even madder,
The reporter asked that since they had capture Jerusalem would they now rebuild the temple,

he snapped back, "The temple is already build", then realizing what he had said, he turned and walked off.

Cool story bro.

parousia70 · Nov 24, 2015

BABerean2 said:
Do you believe rebuilding a temple, and renewing animal sacrifices are what God wants them to do?

.

Of course that is what he believes. His entire eschatology is dependent upon it.

iamlamad · Nov 24, 2015

parousia70 said:
And this future temple, built by Christ rejecting Jews, who do not have the Father either, will be "The Temple of God"..... How?

THEY think it will be the temple of God. Did you not read in the Old Testament how the presence of God left the temple, then the city? But yet they kept right on as if nothing had changed. Was the presence of God in the temple during Jesus' time on earth? Yes, but ONLY when Jesus walked in! Yet, Jesus still honored the temple.

Will God honor this next temple? I think that remains to be seen. My guess is HE WILL.

iamlamad · Nov 24, 2015

BABerean2 said:
Do you believe rebuilding a temple, and renewing animal sacrifices are what God wants them to do?

.

It's what is written in scripture: He knew about the new temple LONG before we did and wrote about it. However, this question you asked is simply not answered in scripture. What we know is that the man of sin will enter the temple at the midpoint of the week.

Short Timer · Nov 24, 2015

BABerean2 said:
Do you believe rebuilding a temple, and renewing animal sacrifices are what God wants them to do?

I've noticed that ya'll have divided God's wrath from Satan's wrath as if Satan is exercising his wrath against the "will of God".

Why is it ya'll don't understand that everything that does occurs is because God is "Willing" for it to occur????

If the temple wasn't a "Holy Place" how could the AC sitting in the temple be an abomination to God,

Would the same apply if the AC was sitting in McDonald's???

Why do people believe in a Rapture?

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