the rapid brain growth hypothesis and the evolutionary peak etc

: D

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Greetings to one and all,

Hopefully I have posted in the correct section and will stimulate some discussion.

Instead of a long word heavy post I will offer short paragraphs in understandable English and see what catches and expand from there.

I will predominately be looking at issues within the human evolutionary theory and other related matters.


The larger brain hypothesis.

Around 2 million years ago it is suggested early humans began the progression from ape to human, this hypothesis is supposingly supported by a rapid (in evolutionary terms) increase in body and brain size due to environmental challenges.

If we are to be generous the “rapid” brain development was achieved in around a million years, is it reasonable to suggest the necessary brain development for survival was rapid enough to prevent extinction? Or that the intermediate physical changes (where the creature is neither adapted to standing straight nor walking on all fours and still with a stunted brain) would have lessened the chances of survival considering the many hunting animals that had already achieved an evolutionary peak?

Quite how all primates with the same starting point and challenges were not driven to walking tall, thinking big and migrating has never being answered. If evolution is a random process where all possibilities are explored (with many failing and the successful attempts carrying on to reproduce) how where all other primates left to happily carry on as before unaffected by the non-sentient evolutionary process?

Other hypothesis include a need for better social communication, yet the chimp (along with the vast majority of primates and mammals) appears to have enjoyed a complicated social structure along with the use of tools and a changing environment over millennia with the evolutionary processes “deciding” a bigger brain is not required.

Interesting to note the chimpanzee is now officially classed as endangered due to environmental stresses, evolutionary logic would suggest the chimps should start rapidly evolving to counter this natural threat.


Rapid Brain Development.

Academic wisdom tells us it took the natural evolutionary process 500 million years to develop the anthropoid maximum of 1 million neurons inside the brain, yet it also tells us that (again being generous) over the next 2 million years man acquired an additional 11 billion neurons. At the original evolutionary rate man’s brain would have needed an additional 5 billion years to naturally evolve not 2 million years.

The accepted hypothesis states that it was an evolutionary necessity due to an environmental change or threat that was the driving force yet this evolutionary decision on rapid (which is an understatement really) brain enlargement has only ever affected early man.
another argument to support the hypothesis is eating meat which is obviously a stretch.

Furthermore this rapid enlargement stopped back in ancient history yet the modern brain packed full of knowledge and experience today is no different from that of early man, would evolution really evolve a human brain millions of years in advance that would never need an upgrade regardless of the massively different environmental challenges from then to now.

It is accepted that Neanderthals had a bigger brain capacity than today’s modern man, thicker bones to handle more torque from stronger muscles and had also mastered fire, complex caring societal structures, utilised pitch for weapons and boats plus used a refined common language (language is commonly thought to correlate with the larger brain).

How could a bipedal evolutionary peak for the time be replaced by a smaller brained weaker unestablished species? Survival of the fittest in reverse?


Reaching an evolutionary peak.

Evolution, we are told, is an ever changing random mutation theory that tests multiple combinations of mutation allowing the well adapted to pass on its code and the failures to die out. Why then do certain participants of evolution appear to have peaked? Has evolution taken the decision a peak has being achieved?

Many so called “living fossils” have been over looked by the evolutionary process for (lets pick a round number) 40 million years. We are told that organisms such as jelly fish and sharks have not altered significantly since they came into existence. Why has the random chemical process of evolution decided to not invite them to the mutation party?

Physical perfection (if such a thing exists) would surely lead to an unending brain improvement program , considering the shark achieved this physical peak 38 million years before the earliest human, evolutionary logic would suggest the shark is a victim of the randomly occurring chemically inspired evolutionary cold shoulder.


Finger prints of the evolutionary victims.

Again if we are to believe that no sentient decisions are made in the chemically driven multiple variation version of evolution then we would see many more failures in the fossil record than we would see successes.

Random mutation is the hero of the evolutionary story, yet all evidence points to a very lucky progression along the timelines, so lucky in fact that random mutation are the least likely of conclusions.

Taking Darwinian evolution at face value we should expect to find all manner of recognisable failed organic designs, if many minute mutations over a long time leads to an improved species and the failed species dies out then it stands to reason the failed inferior animals would be found in abundance.

The amazing balance of function within species needs (no wait….demands) many failed evolutionary attempts FOR EVERY SPECIES otherwise the whole evolutionary model is debunked.



Phew…. So hopefully there is some food for thought there, I have skimmed over the subjects of interest to me and am willing to flesh them out if it is desired,

Your thoughts are welcomed and if I have dropped a clanger please let me know.

Thanks

: )
 

Jimmy D

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Hi :D

Your thread probably hasn't received much attention because it's in the formal debate section.

I haven't got the time or inclination to go through your points but I don't doubt for a second that all the answers to your questions can be easily found by a bit of google research.

In my experience these 'logical' type arguments basically boil down to personal incredulity and/or ignorance.

The amazing balance of function within species needs (no wait….demands) many failed evolutionary attempts FOR EVERY SPECIES otherwise the whole evolutionary model is debunked.

The Theory of Evolution has been scrutinized for over a hundred years and has only become stronger, it'll take a bit more than your 'logic' for it to be debunked.
 
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Loudmouth

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Greetings to one and all,

Hopefully I have posted in the correct section and will stimulate some discussion.

Instead of a long word heavy post I will offer short paragraphs in understandable English and see what catches and expand from there.

I will predominately be looking at issues within the human evolutionary theory and other related matters.


The larger brain hypothesis.

Around 2 million years ago it is suggested early humans began the progression from ape to human, this hypothesis is supposingly supported by a rapid (in evolutionary terms) increase in body and brain size due to environmental challenges.

If we are to be generous the “rapid” brain development was achieved in around a million years, is it reasonable to suggest the necessary brain development for survival was rapid enough to prevent extinction? Or that the intermediate physical changes (where the creature is neither adapted to standing straight nor walking on all fours and still with a stunted brain) would have lessened the chances of survival considering the many hunting animals that had already achieved an evolutionary peak?

Quite how all primates with the same starting point and challenges were not driven to walking tall, thinking big and migrating has never being answered. If evolution is a random process where all possibilities are explored (with many failing and the successful attempts carrying on to reproduce) how where all other primates left to happily carry on as before unaffected by the non-sentient evolutionary process?

Other hypothesis include a need for better social communication, yet the chimp (along with the vast majority of primates and mammals) appears to have enjoyed a complicated social structure along with the use of tools and a changing environment over millennia with the evolutionary processes “deciding” a bigger brain is not required.

Interesting to note the chimpanzee is now officially classed as endangered due to environmental stresses, evolutionary logic would suggest the chimps should start rapidly evolving to counter this natural threat.


Rapid Brain Development.

Academic wisdom tells us it took the natural evolutionary process 500 million years to develop the anthropoid maximum of 1 million neurons inside the brain, yet it also tells us that (again being generous) over the next 2 million years man acquired an additional 11 billion neurons. At the original evolutionary rate man’s brain would have needed an additional 5 billion years to naturally evolve not 2 million years.

The accepted hypothesis states that it was an evolutionary necessity due to an environmental change or threat that was the driving force yet this evolutionary decision on rapid (which is an understatement really) brain enlargement has only ever affected early man.
another argument to support the hypothesis is eating meat which is obviously a stretch.

Furthermore this rapid enlargement stopped back in ancient history yet the modern brain packed full of knowledge and experience today is no different from that of early man, would evolution really evolve a human brain millions of years in advance that would never need an upgrade regardless of the massively different environmental challenges from then to now.

It is accepted that Neanderthals had a bigger brain capacity than today’s modern man, thicker bones to handle more torque from stronger muscles and had also mastered fire, complex caring societal structures, utilised pitch for weapons and boats plus used a refined common language (language is commonly thought to correlate with the larger brain).

How could a bipedal evolutionary peak for the time be replaced by a smaller brained weaker unestablished species? Survival of the fittest in reverse?


Reaching an evolutionary peak.

Evolution, we are told, is an ever changing random mutation theory that tests multiple combinations of mutation allowing the well adapted to pass on its code and the failures to die out. Why then do certain participants of evolution appear to have peaked? Has evolution taken the decision a peak has being achieved?

Many so called “living fossils” have been over looked by the evolutionary process for (lets pick a round number) 40 million years. We are told that organisms such as jelly fish and sharks have not altered significantly since they came into existence. Why has the random chemical process of evolution decided to not invite them to the mutation party?

Physical perfection (if such a thing exists) would surely lead to an unending brain improvement program , considering the shark achieved this physical peak 38 million years before the earliest human, evolutionary logic would suggest the shark is a victim of the randomly occurring chemically inspired evolutionary cold shoulder.


Finger prints of the evolutionary victims.

Again if we are to believe that no sentient decisions are made in the chemically driven multiple variation version of evolution then we would see many more failures in the fossil record than we would see successes.

Random mutation is the hero of the evolutionary story, yet all evidence points to a very lucky progression along the timelines, so lucky in fact that random mutation are the least likely of conclusions.

Taking Darwinian evolution at face value we should expect to find all manner of recognisable failed organic designs, if many minute mutations over a long time leads to an improved species and the failed species dies out then it stands to reason the failed inferior animals would be found in abundance.

The amazing balance of function within species needs (no wait….demands) many failed evolutionary attempts FOR EVERY SPECIES otherwise the whole evolutionary model is debunked.



Phew…. So hopefully there is some food for thought there, I have skimmed over the subjects of interest to me and am willing to flesh them out if it is desired,

Your thoughts are welcomed and if I have dropped a clanger please let me know.

Thanks

: )

Using your argument . . .

There can't be 7 billion people in the world. That is a number made up by the evil Illuminati. After all, it took mankind so long just to reach a few hundred million:

"The world population in 35,000 BCE is estimated to have been around 3 million people, all of whom subsisted as hunter-gatherers.[27] The population had increased to around 15 million at the time agriculture emerged in around 10,000 BCE.[28] By contrast, it is estimated that around 50–60 million people lived in the combined eastern and western Roman Empire in the 4th century CE."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

You want to tell me that in a relative blink of an eye that the world population shot to 100 times that? IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!

Therefore, I will ignore the facts because I have deemed them impossible for no apparent reason.
 
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elopez

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While I don't think addressing every point at once would be useful, I think it would to discuss point by point and move on. This particular issue interests me and caught my eye as I was just reading an article about "living fossils" about a week or so ago.
Many so called “living fossils” have been over looked by the evolutionary process for (lets pick a round number) 40 million years.
To be honest, there really is no unanimity on a definition of "living fossils". I think for the purpose of discussion, and as generally defined, a living fossil is an ancient species that hasn't gone extinct, has not produced or "radiated" many new species, and has remained relatively unchanged over the course of millennia. It can be falsely assumed as a lack of evolution, and further scientific inquiry have time and again discredited claims that these species do not change, which has lead researchers to believe that the term “living fossil” is simply a misnomer. Let's take a quick example before moving on. Students at the University of Hull sequenced several genes from 270 tadpole shrimp and found that they have conservative body plans that are constantly radiating, and adapting to novel conditions.

We are told that organisms such as jelly fish and sharks have not altered significantly since they came into existence.
Which species of sharks are you even talking about? Just referring to "sharks" is rather vague. The only species of sharks I'm familiar with being dubbed "living fossil" is the Frilled Shark. The Frilled Shark does show fossil evidence from 95 million years ago, though again that doesn't mean it hasn't evolved. It would be wholly naive to assume it hasn't changed since then. Even then, one specires of shark that may have given rise to modern sharks (which probably what you are referring to by "sharks") is Mcmurdodus, which had an even later start of 390 million years ago. Most of the sharks at that time were near-shore predators, and by roughly 100 million years ago, many sharks had evolved into fast-swimming, off-shore predators. Just one major evolutionary difference.

So on this note, I would have to highly question the source of which you say has informed us sharks have not changed much.
 
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