divorce and remarriage.

twin1954 said:

As to living 60 years single: do you not think that the Lord can give grace to help in time of need?

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How do you mean?

mikedsjr said:

I have a question that enters into the land of controversy, but I seek an answer from those with familiar belief and knowledge of this area. I've tried since my teen years to grasp this without discussing it because it's such a hot button. I don't know the answer to this so I wanted to get some feedback. My question is coming from the foundation divorce and remarriage, apart from adultery is a sin.

If a person has divorced and remarried in un-biblically, how does the church handle this? Also, if the person ever acknowledged this sin what should the person do? It seems as though there is a lot of situations where this can end terribly bad due to the sin.

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Hi mike,

Well, the first thing we need to understand is that the 'church' is full of sinners. At last count I think it was 100%. Secondly, while there are many who teach the 'in the case of adultery divorce is ok' message, I'm not one to agree with that. What Jesus said was that anyone who divorces his wife, except in the case of adultery, it would make her and the divorcing party adulterers, and all those to become involved with them in the future. I believe that the reason he excepted adultery in this teaching is that in that case both parties were already adulterers. The divorce wouldn't make them adulterers, the adultery itself would make them adulterers.

But we must always remember that Jesus died for our sin. Both those already committed and those yet to be committed. Now, I do believe that once one is born again, they would certainly pause and consider long and hard before getting a divorce. The Scriptures also seem to make clear, according to Paul, that in a marriage where the one seeking the divorce is not a believer, then they should be allowed to divorce their spouse. He seems to clearly say, that while this is still against God's desires for us, it isn't something that we should suffer serious angst over.

So, a couple of questions need to be answered before any judgment is made regarding the issue of divorce. First, were the people involved born again at the time of the divorce. Now, please understand that I am not asking if they were Christians, but whether or not they were born again. Many today seem to equate someone saying that they are a Christian as the same as their saying that they are born again. I don't agree. Jesus seems to make this clear in his discussion with his disciples about the day of God's judgment when he tells them that on that day many would cry out to him, "Lord! Lord! Did we not do great miracles in your name and in your name drive out demons?" It seems painfully obvious to me that these people are reminding Jesus that they were Christians. I can't honestly imagine anyone living this life and doing these things that Jesus mentions here and not holding up before the world that they are Christians. As far as I know, no one has ever driven out demons or performed miracles in Jesus' name that doesn't claim that they are Christians. Now, some may find some singular person in history that did, but the Scriptures are clear that Jesus said that there will be 'many' of these.

Secondly, is the one seeking the divorce the one claiming to be a Christian? As I mentioned above, Paul seems to make clear that if we come to be born again while married and the partner later wants a divorce, that the believing spouse should let them have their request. Yes, that does put the onus on the believing spouse of remaining unmarried the rest of their life, if they want to keep God's command in this.

I have been married four times and my current wife has sought to leave a couple of times. I came to be born again after my last marriage. Am I a sinner? You betcha! I praise God every day that Jesus died in my place and am more and more thankful that he did. It appears that even Paul struggled with this issue of sin after being born again. He decries, just as I do, why do I do the things that I don't want to do and don't do the things that I want to do? Praise God, who through Jesus, has made atonement for my sin. Absolutely I don't sin as I used to, but there are still issues and actions in my life that I know are sin before the eyes of my Creator. I, like Paul, am daily reminded of my sin and thankful to God that He has promised to forgive me as I forgive others through the blood of His Son, Jesus.

Those who have some idea that the 'church' should only be full of 'perfect' people haven't understood what God is doing. Yes, we should absolutely strive to live righteous lives while we are here, but I'm confident that none of us will actually succeed in living such a life. If we are able to make ourselves righteous by keeping the law, then Jesus died for naught. As the Scriptures declare, the law was given to convict us, not to save us. Only faith in the righteous and completed work of Jesus can do that. Will it change us? Yes! Will it make us sinless in this life? No! Some of us will certainly do a better job than others in denying sin. The rest of us will know by the conviction of the Spirit and the law, that we are sinners and yet through the completed work of Jesus, will find salvation on the day of God's judgment. Praise God!

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Bluelion said:

but you forget the part you force her to commit adultery.

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How so? Are you assuming she would remarry?

mikedsjr said:

Twin, i agree it should be forgiven. The problem is multifaceted. Is the church condoning of such divorces and remarriage by allowing them to stay in their church? Can their truly be repentance if they stay in the relationship when Scripture calls it adultery? Is the church to apply forgiveness to other relationships and let them remain as is, even if there are children in their family?

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These were very good questions, and well-worded. I'm still waiting for the answers. People have answered all kinds of questions that you did not ask, like, "Do we forgive them?" or "Is divorce and remarriage ever okay?"

The point made in the Bible is very clear on the assertion that two people who marry after one or both were divorced from someone else commit adultery. Therefore, as Mike rightly asks, one must wonder how the second (or third, or fourth) marriage can be valid if it is an adulterous relationship. This has nothing to do with forgiveness. We're not talking about execution, incarceration, ex-communication, revenge, or anything like that. All we're asking is, does the later marriage really count as a marriage, when we know that God does not generally recognize divorce, and especially remarriage? It doesn't really matter at all whether the deed was done before or after conversion, for the sake of this discussion, because a sin is a sin, whether done by a Christian or a heathen. Either God accepts the second marriage, or he doesn't.

The matter is problematic for a couple of reasons. For one thing, if the second marriage is null in the sight of God, then are we to tell people to divorce the later spouse? That would be a hard thing to accept, and a harder thing to advocate. The second problem we face is that this situation has touched probably everyone. It's much easier to debate things that have only academic value.

The best answer I've heard for this is so tenuous that I couldn't bring myself to mention it.

98cwitr said:

How so? Are you assuming she would remarry?

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my point is you can say you will never remarry but you can not control her if she does then it would be adultery. The words are Jesus's not mine Jesus said. Mat 5 31 “You have heard the law that says, ‘A man can divorce his wife by merely giving her a written notice of divorce.’32 But I say that a man who divorces his wife, unless she has been unfaithful, causes her to commit adultery. And anyone who marries a divorced woman also commits adultery.

Now my wife was divorced, however, I am with in the Law because her husband moved in his girl friend, so my wife left and divorced him. He committed adultery so she could legally divorce him.

The question I have is to look at a woman with lust is adultery so could divorce be granted on these grounds, if so just about all marriages are granted?

So the only grounds for me to divorce my wife is if she cheats? Good. Because that's my only condition! Anything else I think we can weather...with God's help of course.

98cwitr said:

So the only grounds for me to divorce my wife is if she cheats? Good. Because that's my only condition! Anything else I think we can weather...with God's help of course.

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I do not see your situation as permission to divorce. Every man will do as he wishes, but I believe it is God's deapest desire to restore the relationship between you and your wife. Other factors are to be considered as well. For example, if your wife expresses remorse/regret for her unfaithfulness, asks to be forgiven and wishes to remain married to you that places you in a very tough spot with God.
I've been through this very thing so I am not speaking out of ignorance.
As I said, in the end you will do as you wish, but I urge you as a brother in Christ to think long and hard before making that jump. I think there is reason to believe the day will come when you wish you hadn't divorcrd her.
On the other hand i'vr seen many take the other route and (seemingly) receive God's blessings, perhaps beyond what one would expect. Seemingly.

Edited

My apologies, Cwitr, I did not pay close enough attention to your first post. I responded thinking you wanted out...that she had cheated. Senior moment.

98cwitr said:

So the only grounds for me to divorce my wife is if she cheats? Good. Because that's my only condition! Anything else I think we can weather...with God's help of course.

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You would think but the enemy hates marriage, it's harder than it looks. give it time you'll see. The trick is that there is no divorce, keep that in mind and that you love her, and lots of prayers.

Grafted In said:

I do not see your situation as permission to divorce. Every man will do as he wishes, but I believe it is God's deapest desire to restore the relationship between you and your wife. Other factors are to be considered as well. For example, if your wife expresses remorse/regret for her unfaithfulness, asks to be forgiven and wishes to remain married to you that places you in a very tough spot with God.
I've been through this very thing so I am not speaking out of ignorance.
As I said, in the end you will do as you wish, but I urge you as a brother in Christ to think long and hard before making that jump. I think there is reason to believe the day will come when you wish you hadn't divorcrd her.
On the other hand i'vr seen many take the other route and (seemingly) receive God's blessings, perhaps beyond what one would expect. Seemingly.

Edited

My apologies, Cwitr, I did not pay close enough attention to your first post. I responded thinking you wanted out...that she had cheated. Senior moment.

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No no no! The wife and I are perfectly fine...I was just saying that we have a couple of conditions where we have openly communicated that we would seek a divorce (or at least assume we would), the major one of the two being adultery, the second being physical abuse.

Bluelion said:

You would think but the enemy hates marriage, it's harder than it looks. give it time you'll see. The trick is that there is no divorce, keep that in mind and that you love her, and lots of prayers.

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If I ever get into the feeling of "can I do this for the rest of my life" I simply look at the proof-positive evidence of how not only God brought us together, but kept us together. There are so many things that are beyond coincidence for both of us that there is no question in either of our minds that God has ordained our union. Trust me, if it were just us, we NEVER would have made it to this point. He is the Sustainer.

Hi mike,

Well, I don't know if you read my post, but I'm not in agreement that God gives us an 'out' for adultery in any form. Either of the mind or of the body.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

98cwitr said:

If I ever get into the feeling of "can I do this for the rest of my life" I simply look at the proof-positive evidence of how not only God brought us together, but kept us together. There are so many things that are beyond coincidence for both of us that there is no question in either of our minds that God has ordained our union. Trust me, if it were just us, we NEVER would have made it to this point. He is the Sustainer.

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Its the same with us we met online I moved 800 miles to be with my wife. we have been together 8 years 5 married. God blessed our marriage we had no money to do and we just could not wait it had been 3 years already so we were going to get married in my brother in laws back yard. We started to make plans and then, God worked we ended up getting married in a beautiful garden and had the reception at a restaurant, we paid for the photographer but everything else was paid for. Still with outside stress you can forget that. We never argue about anything in the marriage it is always out side forces. I am not telling you this as wishing it on you, just saying so you will be prepared it takes a lot of work. Better to be prepared then not to you know.

mikedsjr said:

Yes, I did read it. Thanks. I would not go so far as to say there is no out, because Scripture does give an out. But I do agree the intent in Scripture is to stay.

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What 'out' does Scripture give us?

mikedsjr said:

Matthew 19:8-9
He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

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Hi mike,

Why do you think he excepted sexual immorality?

God bless you.
Ted

miamited said:

Hi mike,

Why do you think he excepted sexual immorality?

God bless you.
Ted

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Jesus answered this because God new the hearts of men, a think a little further or maybe in Luke which is more detailed says but it was not as God intended.

Imagine if we everyone went into marriage think there is no way out, maybe not so many divorces ? Now a days most people go into marriage with one hand on the eject button as soon as it gets hard their out of there.

mikedsjr said:

I appreciate the replies. I'm still attempting to wrap my head around this.

Twin, i agree it should be forgiven. The problem is multifaceted. Is the church condoning of such divorces and remarriage by allowing them to stay in their church? Can their truly be repentance if they stay in the relationship when Scripture calls it adultery? Is the church to apply forgiveness to other relationships and let them remain as is, even if there are children in their family?

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Divorce should be taught as never an option. There can be separation but not divorce. That is why it is so very important to be sure of who you marry. I always tell couple thinking of marrying that if there is anything, no matter how small, that you can't live with about the other to not marry. It will not change and it will become a matter of bitterness and contention. Marriage isn't about happiness it is about commitment.

Now when believers fall we are to forgive them. That is what love does. The consequences of some sins are irreparable and must be lived with. Forgiving and accepting the consequences is not the same as condoning. The Lord forgave and was full of compassion for sinners but He never condoned their sin. I am reminded of the woman at the well in John 5.

How do you think that woman got the money for that alabaster box of ointment that she poured on Christ? He didn't condemn her for it.