Ten Commandments still valid so says Bible and pro-Sunday Scholars

Gregory Thompson · Sep 4, 2015

BobRyan said:
Obeying God - because God said it - is the sign of loving God according to 1John 5:1-4

Jesus spoke of the appearance of the inner person, when speaking of obedience. The outer obedience of the pharisees was not welcome in the Kingdom of God.

BobRyan · Sep 4, 2015

NT saints still show that they Love God - when they "Keep God's commandments".

We do not equivocate between this text and "external obedience not from the heart".

1 John 5
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

"If you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
According to the bible the "saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

According to the Bible that "cannot keep God's Law" scenario is the case for the lost

And so then what about "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death."?? Romans 8:2 -- does it free us to take God's name in vain to be set free from the "Law of Sin and death" or does it simply refer to Romans 7

Romans 7
21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death."?? Romans 8:2

What a mistake then to equate the Law of God that Paul agrees with - (that includes the TEN Commandments according to Rom 7) -- into the "Law of sin"

Romans 8
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. (KJV)

Rom 8 (NKJV)
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom 8 (NASB)
3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Gregory Thompson · Sep 4, 2015

BobRyan said:
NT saints still show that they Love God - when they "Keep God's commandments".

We do not equivocate between this text and "external obedience not from the heart".

1 John 5
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

"If you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
According to the bible the "saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

According to the Bible that "cannot keep God's Law" scenario is the case for the lost

And so then what about "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death."?? Romans 8:2 -- does it free us to take God's name in vain to be set free from the "Law of Sin and death" or does it simply refer to Romans 7

Romans 7
21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death."?? Romans 8:2

What a mistake then to equate the Law of God that Paul agrees with - (that includes the TEN Commandments according to Rom 7) -- into the "Law of sin"

Romans 8
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. (KJV)

Rom 8 (NKJV)
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom 8 (NASB)
3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

You can kind of see what you want in any passage, but in those books especially, I see a teeter totter effect between law and grace and then emphasizing love. I'm pretty sure something is lost in the translation to English. The passages that you have quoted I am aware of but do not upset the balance that I understand from the whole body of scripture.

There are outer requirements, but they are only attained by washing the inside of the cup first, any other order .. simply makes whitewashed tombs like the pharisees whose righteousness was not good enough for the kingdom of God .. according to Jesus.

BobRyan · Sep 4, 2015

As stated you cannot equivocate between the texts quoted above and "no obedience from the heart" the NT writers never make that assumption. So while there is such a thing as external-only conformity to a certain level - for the lost person - those NT texts are clearly not addressing the lost.

For example -

QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68549842, member: 235244"]

Matt 5
17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Under the New Covenant "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
Under the New Covenant "it is not the hearers of the LAW that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law WILL be JustIFIED... on the day when according to MY GOSPEL God will judge" Rom 2:13-16
Under the New Covenant "the SAINTs KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

All the OT saints of Heb 11 were pursing "righteousness which is BY FAITH" Heb 11:7 including Moses and Elijah who stand WITH Christ in Matt 17 before the cross.

Under the New Covenant.
"do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God" Rom 3:31
"what? Shall we SIN because we are not UNDER the Law? May it NEVER be!" Rom 6
"these things I write to you that you SIN not" 1John 2:1
"SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1John 3:4

[/QUOTE]

Gregory Thompson · Sep 4, 2015

BobRyan said:
As stated you cannot equivocate between the texts quoted above and "no obedience from the heart" the NT writers never make that assumption. So while there is such a thing as external-only conformity to a certain level - for the lost person - those NT texts are clearly not addressing the lost.

Sin blocks people from seeing God, law magnifies sin so that's all people can see, confessing sin removes the sin so they can see God, I'm not sure why you think it doesn't address the lost.

bbbbbbb · Sep 4, 2015

BobRyan said:
Obeying God - because God said it - is the sign of loving God according to 1John 5:1-4

So, do you believe that every commandment God has given is to be obeyed?

BobRyan · Sep 4, 2015

1. Do you believe in sola scriptura testing of all doctrine?
2. Do you think John made a mistake in 1John 5?

QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68476380, member: 235244"]

NT saints still show that they Love God - when they "Keep God's commandments".

1 John 5
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

"If you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
According to the bible the "saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Bottom line:
As the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" - D.L. Moody, R.C Sproul, C.H. Spurgeon and the Bible all agree - the moral law of God - the "Commandments of God" remain for all mankind to keep. As Paul says in Rom 3 and Gal 3 - the Law of God "defines what sin is" and so in Romans 6 you are not to be enslaved to sin - to rebellion against the Law of God.

"what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19 - for those interested in a sola-scriptura statement on this doctrine.[/QUOTE]

Open Heart · Sep 8, 2015

BobRyan said:
1. Do you believe in sola scriptura testing of all doctrine?

No. In the beginning, there was no NT. The Apostles had authority to teach the Gospel, as they had been taught and anointed by Christ himself. With this ordination comes the inspiration of the Holy Spirit as a group. "But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth." (John 16:13) They then ordained presbyters and bishops who they trusted to teach the gospel as they had taught them, who then further ordained more bishops, and so on. We call this the teaching authority of the church. This is what Paul speaks of when he says, " the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth." (I Tim 3:15) It is the Church with this authority which canonized the NT, giving the NT its authority, recognizing its divine inspiration. Thus, God is the primary authority, the Church is the secondary authority, and Scripture is the tertiary authority.

BobRyan · Sep 8, 2015

Open Heart said:
No. In the beginning, there was no NT.

Is 8:20 -- sola scriptura principle starts very very early.

"20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Is 8:20

Nobody had the authority to just make stuff up without being measured against the Word of God.

"They studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by Paul - were SO" Acts 17:11

Open Heart said:
The Apostles had authority to teach the Gospel, as they had been taught and anointed by Christ himself. With this ordination comes the inspiration of the Holy Spirit as a group.

"though WE (apostles) or an angel from heaven should come to you and preach a different Gospel - let him be accursed" Gal 1:6-9

It is the church magisterium of Christ's day that gets slammed by Christ "sola scriptura" in Mark 7:6-13

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.

The elders consisting of scribes and pharise es are in fact the "magisterium" even Paul admits to this. And Jesus shows how they claim to "sit in the chair of Moses" as church magisterium .

Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying, The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses. Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but they do not practice. (Matthew 23:1-3)

...

Matt 5
17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Open Heart · Sep 9, 2015

BobRyan said:
"20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Is 8:20

That just means we are not to speak contrary to the Word. It does not mean that the Word is the only source of authority.

Open Heart · Sep 9, 2015

BobRyan said:
Nobody had the authority to just make stuff up without being measured against the Word of God.

We are bound by what has been spoken before. YES, I agree. This is why, i.e., the NT could not contradict the OT, and why the NT books were chosen that did not contradict what the Church was teaching. Now the Church may not make statements in conflict with the NT.

bugkiller · Sep 9, 2015

BobRyan said:
NT saints still show that they Love God - when they "Keep God's commandments".

We do not equivocate between this text and "external obedience not from the heart".

1 John 5
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

"If you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
According to the bible the "saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

According to the Bible that "cannot keep God's Law" scenario is the case for the lost

And so then what about "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death."?? Romans 8:2 -- does it free us to take God's name in vain to be set free from the "Law of Sin and death" or does it simply refer to Romans 7

Romans 7
21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death."?? Romans 8:2

What a mistake then to equate the Law of God that Paul agrees with - (that includes the TEN Commandments according to Rom 7) -- into the "Law of sin"

Romans 8
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. (KJV)

Rom 8 (NKJV)
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom 8 (NASB)
3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

You don't understand I John 3:23.

bugkiller

bugkiller · Sep 9, 2015

BobRyan said:
As stated you cannot equivocate between the texts quoted above and "no obedience from the heart" the NT writers never make that assumption. So while there is such a thing as external-only conformity to a certain level - for the lost person - those NT texts are clearly not addressing the lost.

For example -

QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68549842, member: 235244"]

Matt 5
17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Under the New Covenant "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
Under the New Covenant "it is not the hearers of the LAW that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law WILL be JustIFIED... on the day when according to MY GOSPEL God will judge" Rom 2:13-16
Under the New Covenant "the SAINTs KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

All the OT saints of Heb 11 were pursing "righteousness which is BY FAITH" Heb 11:7 including Moses and Elijah who stand WITH Christ in Matt 17 before the cross.

Under the New Covenant.
"do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God" Rom 3:31
"what? Shall we SIN because we are not UNDER the Law? May it NEVER be!" Rom 6
"these things I write to you that you SIN not" 1John 2:1
"SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1John 3:4

[/QUOTE]But you don't know what the commandment is. Yes I know that sound dumb and you'll probably say and quote the law while you ignore way to many passages in the NT like I John 3:23 and Roman 7:6 for instance.

bugkiller

bugkiller · Sep 9, 2015

BobRyan said:
1. Do you believe in sola scriptura testing of all doctrine?
2. Do you think John made a mistake in 1John 5?

QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68476380, member: 235244"]

NT saints still show that they Love God - when they "Keep God's commandments".

1 John 5
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

"If you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
According to the bible the "saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Bottom line:
As the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" - D.L. Moody, R.C Sproul, C.H. Spurgeon and the Bible all agree - the moral law of God - the "Commandments of God" remain for all mankind to keep. As Paul says in Rom 3 and Gal 3 - the Law of God "defines what sin is" and so in Romans 6 you are not to be enslaved to sin - to rebellion against the Law of God.

"what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19 - for those interested in a sola-scriptura statement on this doctrine.

[/QUOTE]No the mistake must be Jesus' words found in John 15:10.

bugkiller

bugkiller · Sep 9, 2015

BobRyan said:
Is 8:20 -- sola scriptura principle starts very very early.

"20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Is 8:20

Nobody had the authority to just make stuff up without being measured against the Word of God.

"They studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by Paul - were SO" Acts 17:11

"though WE (apostles) or an angel from heaven should come to you and preach a different Gospel - let him be accursed" Gal 1:6-9

It is the church magisterium of Christ's day that gets slammed by Christ "sola scriptura" in Mark 7:6-13

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.

The elders consisting of scribes and pharise es are in fact the "magisterium" even Paul admits to this. And Jesus shows how they claim to "sit in the chair of Moses" as church magisterium .

Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying, The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses. Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but they do not practice. (Matthew 23:1-3)

...

Matt 5
17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Yes and they agreed with Paul.

bugkiller

bugkiller · Sep 9, 2015

Open Heart said:
We are bound by what has been spoken before. YES, I agree. This is why, i.e., the NT could not contradict the OT, and why the NT books were chosen that did not contradict what the Church was teaching. Now the Church may not make statements in conflict with the NT.

Then there can be no new covenant (contract). If that is true there's no such thing as salvation and we're bound to the law contrary to the Bible (Rom 7:6).

bugkiller

Open Heart · Sep 9, 2015

bugkiller said:
You don't understand I John 3:23.

Since you didn't quote it, no one knows what you are talking about.

BobRyan · Sep 9, 2015

QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68556796, member: 235244"]NT saints still show that they Love God - when they "Keep God's commandments".

We do not equivocate between this text and "external obedience not from the heart".

1 John 5
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

"If you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
According to the bible the "saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

According to the Bible that "cannot keep God's Law" scenario is the case for the lost

And so then what about "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death."?? Romans 8:2 -- does it free us to take God's name in vain to be set free from the "Law of Sin and death" or does it simply refer to Romans 7

Romans 7
21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death."?? Romans 8:2

What a mistake then to equate the Law of God that Paul agrees with - (that includes the TEN Commandments according to Rom 7) -- into the "Law of sin"

Romans 8
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. (KJV)

Rom 8 (NKJV)
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom 8 (NASB)
3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.[/QUOTE]

bugkiller said:
You don't understand I John 3:23.
bugkiller

An interesting false accusation -- in response to the Bible texts I quoted.

Is that all you wanted to add - a false accusation with no logic at all in support of it??

I find your logic illusive just then - in posting in that manner. What is the point of it?

in Christ,

Bob

BobRyan · Sep 9, 2015

bugkiller said:
Then there can be no new covenant (contract). If that is true there's no such thing as salvation and we're bound to the law contrary to the Bible (Rom 7:6).

bugkiller

Jer 31:31-33 NEW Covenant "I will write My LAW on their mind and on their heart"

New Covenant STILL in that SAME form in Heb 8:6-10.

No wonder all of these pro-Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

Open Heart · Sep 9, 2015

BobRyan said:
"If you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
According to the bible the "saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

You are spamming again.

Ten Commandments still valid so says Bible and pro-Sunday Scholars

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

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