Syria: Broken Nation

wing2000

E pluribus unum
Site Supporter
Aug 18, 2012
20,914
17,302
✟1,429,122.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
...and sadly, those who manage to escape the violence are met with a nationalist reaction in many European countries.

"Other eastern European countries -- including the Czech Republic, Poland and Slovakia -- have also taken a hard line against accepting refugees, insisting they should be few and Christian. (Meanwhile, their governments insist on the right of their own citizens to migrate to Germany, the U.K. and other wealthier EU countries.)

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-09-02/hungary-s-xenophobia-europe-s-crisis
 
Upvote 0

mindlight

See in the dark
Site Supporter
Dec 20, 2003
13,624
2,675
London, UK
✟823,917.00
Country
Germany
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Reflective of much of the world's silence and inability to respond to this genocide. I can think of 2 reasons for the silence:

1.) It hurts and infuriates so much that some have to look away. After the chemical weapons attack in 2013...something broke in me when I saw footage of people, especially babies, struggling to breathe and sometimes foaming at the mouth and when I saw pictures of dead children laid side-by-side after they were attacked with chemical weapons by the Syrian regime. I largely stopped keeping up with the news regarding Syria for about a year after that. But as much as I wanted it to avoid it, the reality was still there and so was the inaction.

2.) Syrian Sunni lives aren't considered very valuable to most of the world.

"Yet the international community has made little effort to stop Mr. Assad’s barrel bombing of civilians. The two governments with the greatest potential to influence Mr. Assad — his principal backers, Russia and Iran — have refused to get him to stop. Western governments have been reluctant to exert strong public pressure on them because of other priorities — Ukraine, in the case of Russia, and the nuclear deal, in the case of Iran. The European Union is putting far more effort into stopping Syrian asylum seekers from reaching the Continent than addressing the root causes of their flight. The United States and Turkey recently announced a plan to make a 60-mile strip in northern Syria an “ISIS-free zone,” but the goal is to fight ISIS militants, not protect civilians."

Barrel Bombs, Not ISIS, Are the Greatest Threat to Syrians

Whether these reasons or others are given, ignoring the genocide in Syria cannot be justified.

What is going on in Syria is indeed painful to behold and is mainly self inflicted by the Syrian people. Afterall it is Syrians killing Syrians.

Assad is a secularised monster and ISIS is born of an original stream of Sunni Islamic theology that seems deeply alien and brutal in the modern world. ISIL is murdering Christians while Assad is protecting them to some extent. Both sides commit atrocities and there is no moral case that justifies either. Neither are fit to govern the country but there is no alternative strong enough to displace them. So these people have chosen to fight it out and the pictures of scared children and the broken and the bleeding are symptomatic of this.

Some surrounding countries do not really care if Syria breaks as it was an exporter of trouble when it was whole and in its weakened state is less of a threat. Others wish to exploit the situation for their own advantage.

Living as I do in Germany the cities here are filling up with Syrian refugees (many of them Christians) fleeing what is yet another failed state in the Muslim dominated Middle East. 800000 refugees are expected this year alone and many of them from Syria. They have no place to go in the Middle east and see more opportunity in Europe for freedom and the hope of economic security and prosperity. It is not possible to be indifferent when our taxes pay for the failures of this state and its peoples and our infrastructure and services are being tested by the sheer numbers requiring help.

You seem to suggest Assad is the greater evil here. But from my perspective both sides are merely different flavours of evil. When the evil men are dead and the most dynamic and talented of its people have fled I wonder if there will be anyone left to rebuild that country.
 
Upvote 0
Jan 25, 2013
3,501
476
✟58,740.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Private
I don't really see other Muslims or the rest of the world doing very much either. Very sad.

No one is doing as much as they should be except for maybe Turkey since it has taken almost 2 million Syrian refugees (this figure does not include the unregistered ones). Lebanon has also taken in more than 1 million. Other neighboring Muslim countries have taken them in as well though not in those numbers.

As for helping the rebels, Qatar, Saudi, and Turkey are backing some of them as far as I know.

Britain takes in so few refugees from Syria they would fit on a subway train
Of the 4 million Syrians who have fled their country since the war began, including hundreds of thousands who have poured into Europe, the number who have been resettled in Britain could fit on a single London Underground train — with plenty of seats to spare.

Just 216 Syrian refugees have qualified for the government’s official relocation program, according to data released last week. (Tube trains seat about 300.) British Prime Minister David Cameron has reassured his anxious public that the total number won’t rise above 1,000.

Hopefully the recent images of the Syrian child washed up on shore will help change their minds. From an article I can't link to because of the heartbreaking images of the dead 4-year old child:

"Labour leadership front-runner Jeremy Corbyn told The Independent: "Nobody could fail to be moved by this harrowing and heartbreaking image.

"It should remind us of the situation facing millions of people desperately fleeing a terrible civil war.

"The government's response to the refugee crisis has been wholly inadequate, and we are being shamed by our European neighbours."


Search (from The Independent): If these extraordinarily powerful images of a dead Syrian child washed up on a beach don’t change Europe’s attitude to refugees, what will?

"Within hours it had gone viral becoming the top trending picture on Twitter under the hashtag #KiyiyaVuranInsanlik (humanity washed ashore). Turkish media identified the boy as three-year-old Aylan Kurdi and reported that his five-year-old brother had also met a similar death."

Search (from The Guardian): Shocking images of drowned Syrian boy show tragic plight of refugees
 
Upvote 0
Jan 25, 2013
3,501
476
✟58,740.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Private
...and sadly, those who manage to escape the violence are met with a nationalist reaction in many European countries.

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-09-02/hungary-s-xenophobia-europe-s-crisis

Indeed. Let's hope the rational voices win out over the hatred.

"Before I met Mohamed I was angry and sad at the scenes I saw on television. I asked myself: 'Why do they come here?' Now I think something else."

Former Greek model plucks drowning Syrian refugee from water after he floated for 13 hours

“Before coming to the islands this summer I had no idea how bad the situation was. “The island is full of migrants, thousands of them are arriving every day. They sleep in tents in the street, they have no lavatories they can use, they are in a pitiful condition. Where are the European institutions in all this"

"Mr Besmar was given medical help and now wants to reach Athens, from where he will continue his journey to western Europe. In a Facebook message, he wrote: "I’m very sorry for having entered Greece illegally, but I had no other way of fleeing from the war that has destroyed my country. I was in the water for hours and I thought I was finished when the boat approached and Sandra saved me. I cannot find the words to thank her and the other people on board."

Greek former model describes rescue of Syrian refugee close to death in Aegean Sea


What is going on in Syria is indeed painful to behold and is mainly self inflicted by the Syrian people. Afterall it is Syrians killing Syrians.

Hezbollah (Lebanon), Iran, and Russia are all helping the regime kill Syrians as well.

Assad is a secularised monster and ISIS is born of an original stream of Sunni Islamic theology that seems deeply alien and brutal in the modern world.

Neither of them are options and neither of them will be allowed to stay by the majority of the Syrians.

You seem to suggest Assad is the greater evil here. But from my perspective both sides are merely different flavours of evil.

Assad has killed the vast majority of the civilians killed and he also mainly kills civilians as opposed to combatants. I think of ISIS as being brutal thugs as well but they haven't killed as many civilians as the Syrian regime or its allies. As for any of the opposition other than ISIS (which isn't really a rebel group anymore), I don't consider them to be evil (as a whole, though I know they've also committed crimes).

When the evil men are dead and the most dynamic and talented of its people have fled I wonder if there will be anyone left to rebuild that country.

Humans have a remarkable capacity to bounce back even after immense destruction. Plus I have faith in God and His promises.
 
Upvote 0

mindlight

See in the dark
Site Supporter
Dec 20, 2003
13,624
2,675
London, UK
✟823,917.00
Country
Germany
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hezbollah (Lebanon), Iran, and Russia are all helping the regime kill Syrians as well.

The level of killing by these peoplr is low although they clearly have an interest in supporting the syrian regime. The killing is being done by people who in the main call themselves Muslims.

Neither of them are options and neither of them will be allowed to stay by the majority of the Syrians.

I think the other rebel groups are being slaughtered or assimilated - the only real choice is between Assads regime and this Sunni cult IS. In the long run they may both kill each other off but as with Afghanistan I should imagine survivors will have been brutalised by the experience.

Assad has killed the vast majority of the civilians killed and he also mainly kills civilians as opposed to combatants. I think of ISIS as being brutal thugs as well but they haven't killed as many civilians as the Syrian regime or its allies. As for any of the opposition other than ISIS (which isn't really a rebel group anymore), I don't consider them to be evil (as a whole, though I know they've also committed crimes).

The habit of the rebels of using children or women suicide bombers has made kids threats. In their desperation to overthrow Assad the rebels have made their own children appear dangerous and so become "viable" targets. If combatants could be distinguished from combatants maybe less civilians would be killed.

Humans have a remarkable capacity to bounce back even after immense destruction. Plus I have faith in God and His promises.

Well God can do anything and He will save whom he will. Most Christians are leaving Syria and the land they leave is become a ruin.
 
Upvote 0
Jan 25, 2013
3,501
476
✟58,740.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Private
The level of killing by these peoplr is low although they clearly have an interest in supporting the syrian regime. The killing is being done by people who in the main call themselves Muslims.

No, in some places the only ones fighting on the ground are the Iranian Revolutionary Guards with support from Assad through air power. Those 3 groups are helping Assad stay in power.

I think the other rebel groups are being slaughtered or assimilated - the only real choice is between Assads regime and this Sunni cult IS.

I don't think you've been following the conflict. The rebels are still very much in this and are advancing despite being attacked from multiple sides.

The habit of the rebels of using children or women suicide bombers has made kids threats.

What? Hamza al-Khatib. A 13-year-old boy who was mutilated, including by cutting off his genitals, and killed by the regime in spring of 2011. Tell me how the rebels made him a threat.

The chemical weapons usage from at least 2013 until now. The Douma marketplace bombing. What was the justification for those?
 
Upvote 0
Jan 25, 2013
3,501
476
✟58,740.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Private
"Within hours it had gone viral becoming the top trending picture on Twitter under the hashtag #KiyiyaVuranInsanlik (humanity washed ashore). Turkish media identified the boy as three-year-old Aylan Kurdi and reported that his five-year-old brother had also met a similar death."

Search (from The Guardian): Shocking images of drowned Syrian boy show tragic plight of refugees

For a video of the father: Father of drowned boy Aylan Kurdi plans to return to Syria

2nu52xs.png


Both of the brothers pictured here, Aylan & Ghalib, and their mother died. :' (

The boys' aunt:

 
Upvote 0

Pammalamma

Mom and minister's wife in Pflugerville Texas
Jun 2, 2015
223
73
Pflugerville, Texas
Visit site
✟8,248.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
I have prayed so much for Syria in the past few years. I keep worrying about ISIS, because if the USA does not defeat them, what will ISIS do? It hurts me terribly to see all the news stories of refugees drowning, dying in trucks of suffocation, being put in jail, and beaten. My heart hurts terribly, and I've even had visions and dreams about it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mindlight
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

faroukfarouk

Fading curmudgeon
Apr 29, 2009
35,901
17,177
Canada
✟279,058.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I have prayed so much for Syria in the past few years. I keep worrying about ISIS, because if the USA does not defeat them, what will ISIS do? It hurts me terribly to see all the news stories of refugees drowning, dying in trucks of suffocation, being put in jail, and beaten. My heart hurts terribly, and I've even had visions and dreams about it.
Yes, a lot of prayer is needed.

It's a pity the Obama Administration decided to try to overthrow the Syrian government, one of the results of this being that the rebels which the US assisted turned out to be religious radicals and an effect was further to weaken the Syrian government, making it easier for the radicals. It's a pity that the Obama Administration also chose to pull the plug on President Mubarak of Egypt, thus paving the way for religious radicals there also, which the Egyptian military eventually stepped in to counter.

It's very likely also that the US's ally, Israel, will think that the advice of the Obama Administration in military matters in the Middle East should not be received in an unqualified manner.

I'm sorry, but these are facts.
 
Upvote 0

mindlight

See in the dark
Site Supporter
Dec 20, 2003
13,624
2,675
London, UK
✟823,917.00
Country
Germany
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
No, in some places the only ones fighting on the ground are the Iranian Revolutionary Guards with support from Assad through air power. Those 3 groups are helping Assad stay in power.

I did some reading up on this and I agree the Iranians, Hezbollah and Shia militants provide significant support to the regime. Indeed Syria is an important element of Irans power projection strategy in the region.

http://www.understandingwar.org/report/iranian-strategy-syria

I don't think you've been following the conflict. The rebels are still very much in this and are advancing despite being attacked from multiple sides.

Recent rebel advances may seem better than they are. My understanding is that Some pro Government forces have been withdrawn from fighting them because of a threatened IS offensive on Damascus - Homs.

What? Hamza al-Khatib. A 13-year-old boy who was mutilated, including by cutting off his genitals, and killed by the regime in spring of 2011. Tell me how the rebels made him a threat.

I agree its gruesome and in no way morally justifiable. But these people are trying to eliminate threats and force fear and so long as the rebels blur the lines between non combatants and combatants then innocent children will be killed in the fighting.

The chemical weapons usage from at least 2013 until now. The Douma marketplace bombing. What was the justification for those?

This is a war by ammoral antagonists. The martyrdom of Christians by IS is also wrong even though it is given a Muslim-moral rationale.
 
Upvote 0

mindlight

See in the dark
Site Supporter
Dec 20, 2003
13,624
2,675
London, UK
✟823,917.00
Country
Germany
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Yes, a lot of prayer is needed.

It's a pity the Obama Administration decided to try to overthrow the Syrian government, one of the results of this being that the rebels which the US assisted turned out to be religious radicals and an effect was further to weaken the Syrian government, making it easier for the radicals. It's a pity that the Obama Administration also chose to pull the plug on President Mubarak of Egypt, thus paving the way for religious radicals there also, which the Egyptian military eventually stepped in to counter.

It's very likely also that the US's ally, Israel, will think that the advice of the Obama Administration in military matters in the Middle East should not be received in an unqualified manner.

I'm sorry, but these are facts.

I am not sure that Obama initiated the arab Spring. If anything it seemed to catch him out. But Mubarrak was a lot better for Egypt than the Muslim Brotherhood.

Israel has pretty much always acted according to its own national interest. Einsenhowers rebuke in 1956 after the Sinai invasion being a perfect example.

It is lucky that the support for Israel is pretty much unconditional amongst its key supporters. It also plans for the day that might not be so and being outgunned it will actually have to trust in God.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

HonestTruth

Member
Jul 4, 2013
4,852
1,525
Reaganomics: TOTAL FAIL
✟9,787.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I don't really see other Muslims or the rest of the world doing very much either. Very sad.



same for other forms of civil strife in Congo and Southern Sudan - thousands of dying every day all over the world


sad, indeed
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Jan 25, 2013
3,501
476
✟58,740.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Private
This takes a pretty harsh stance, but it's a good reminder and echoes what some of the posters on this thread have said:

"...Those outlets, though loathsome, are in many ways just expressing an extreme version of the overwhelming sentiment among Western countries: that a single dead refugee child is a tragedy, but a million suffering refugees are a threat. Western voters have made clear to their leaders time and again that they want to keep refugees out, even if it means most of those refugees will die."

"...Will it be like the 1972 photo of a Vietnamese girl running for her life from a napalm explosion, which helped galvanize US public opinion against the war, or just another Cecil the lion, an internet experience that we can all participate in before we go on to the next thing?"

The drowned Syrian boy photo is viral social media at its most hollow and hypocritical

I wonder if any of us who are paying attention to this story would have paid as much attention to it had it been Assad's barrel bombs that killed the two little brothers. sigh.
 
Upvote 0

SoldierOfTheKing

Christian Spenglerian
Jan 6, 2006
9,230
3,041
Kenmore, WA
✟278,566.00
Country
United States
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

seashale76

Unapologetic Iconodule
Dec 29, 2004
14,006
4,404
✟173,624.00
Country
United States
Faith
Melkite Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0