Spirit Paradise
This isn't anything new.
And how does this equate to Kolob being the planet where God lives?
You've got a misplaced or missing quote tag here, and so your statement didn't come out properly.
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[PERMANENTLY CLOSED] What does the LDS church teach about God's nature?
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Spirit Paradise
This isn't anything new.
And how does this equate to Kolob being the planet where God lives?
You've got a misplaced or missing quote tag here, and so your statement didn't come out properly.
There are no "differing agencies".
If it's not through the church or through Intellectual Reserve, then it's not officially-sanctioned.
Period.
That's at least five works which aren't official but which you falsely said were.
This is why we're having trouble taking you seriously.
I'm gonna need some details on this one.
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fatboys
Senior Veteran
[/QUOTE]
We are not saying that you are lying we are saying that what you believe about the teachings and the history is false. You said they as long as we do not try and deceive you then your okay. Why would we want to deceive you. Do you think that we really don't believe in the teachings of our church? I also have to ask how do you know that what you believe is more correct than what I believe?
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fatboys
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Much of the lectures on faith are a result of Sydney Rigdon. As I said Joseph Smith did contribute a lot but les than 80%. But that does not really matter. They have never been looked at as revelations as the rest of the D @ C is. They were considered teachings. There is some great teachings in them. Love those lectures.
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- Jul 2, 2005
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Can I ask if this history is considered literal, or mythological/didactic or some kind of mixture of several factors?
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- Jul 2, 2005
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Not to mention that the Mormons here have the right to understand their own religion regardless of the critics' LDS source citations. The only valid interpreter of any religion is that religion's own body of adherents.
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Jane Doe, this is the only question/answer one needs to understand- what determines if someone is a Christian? Does is depend on what they say? How they act? No. What decides a Christian is whether he/she lives the Bible (the standard for what Christianity is). I've known non-Christian people who lived better lives than Christians. I've seen non-Christians speak in way I wish some Christians spoke. But, they are still lost (going to hell) bcuz they don't have Jesus in their lives, hearts. What makes someone something is whether they live by what that something tells them to live. You, most LDs today, have no idea what your church's founding doctrines are so how can you possibly live them? And, if you knew them you'd shrink back in horror at some of them, like Blood Atonement or the teaching that JS is a GOD and "as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity and calling as God the Father is in heaven" or that Adam is the 'only' God the LDS have. These are the Mormon church's original and early doctrines. But, if God never changes why were these teachings dropped? Why doesn't the church still teach them every Sunday? Also, the LDS god sais he would quickly sweep off the earth (kill) any LDS leader who leads his church astray (teaches false doctrines like polygamy or the above teachings). In that case there is no excuse for these teachings to have been drooped and now denied or rejected. And, since the LDs god never killed any LDS leader it is clear that what they taught way back then was approved of by the lds god. There are no excuses or justifications for not teaching them still. So if you are not a polygamous you aren't living your church's (your god's) words/doctrines.
Now, asking you if there was ever a doctrine in the LDS church that JS is a GOD would get me a 'No' even though there was. Or, the same with polygamy being the foundational doctrine on which the Mormon church was founded. You'd say 'No' to that as well. But the early leaders said it IS the basis and foundation on which everything about the LDS church is based. I'd bet you didn't know that. The same with Blood Atonement. You'd say it was never taught and certainly never practiced. But, again, you'd be wrong and telling me something you weren't taught by the same church that taught it. This is why you never ask a Mormon about Mormon doctrine. I mean, where are the first (original) 12 LDS apostles? Again, the LDS church teaches that all 12 are still alive and will live until Jesus returns. Bet you didn't know that one, either. So, where are they? Have you ever seen one of them? No one, has, by the way. We know when and how thy all died. They are dead and gone and that is why the LDS church doesn't teach that doctrine anymore. And where is John and the 3 Nephites? C'mon, these things aren't hard to know since your church has the only true, all-powerful and all-wise God leading it and if he really does speak face to face with the leaders as JS taught he does and would always do.
By the way, I knew you'd answer that way (ask a Mormon). They always do.
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What part of this has anything to do with what I said?
I'm talking about respecting people and listening to them while having a conversation. Instead you of listening, you demonstrated the exact behavior I was talking against: more preconceptions, overarching generalizations, "I know better" attitude, complete lack of interest/respect to the person you're talking to (or rather talking at), and complete lack of Good brought to the table.
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1. When your god says he will quickly sweep any leader off the face of the earth for 'leading his church astray' it is a given that everything every leader wrote was considered, at least at thee time, too be doctrine. If not, the lds god would have killed him for leading his church astray, as he said he would- unless he lied but then we have a whole 'nuther set of problems to deal with.
2. You have to know the doctrines to live them, Jane. Your leaders have said that if you (LDS people) aren't polygamists then they will b damned- not my words. Are you a polygamists? If no, then you aren't 'believing or living' Mormon doctrine.
To correct the 'misinformation' being spread by Mormons who get the sum of their knowledge, at least the vast majority of it, from the guy at the pulpit on Sunday, not from personal research. Your 'understanding' is limited to what you are being taught if you aren't studying for yourself. And what you're being taught is not the whole truth. There is nothing wrong or evil about setting the record straight about what the LDS church taught except if one is LDS and don't want those terrible doctrines known. Personally, I have no bones to pick with anyone. But like most people I truly dislike liars and frauds- no matter who they are or where or what they are selling. I have stood up in my own church and called a nationally known speaker out bcuz he was acting/talking in a very offensive manner to the LDS 'we' had invited to hear some of their early doctrines that the LDS church either denies now or rejects as never having been taught. He was wrong and I said so.
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I took your post collectively, not individually. That is why I answered as I did. You are looking for something in me that isn't there. I'm no better than anyone and maybe worse than some. I say what I do bcuz I know it is the truth. I don't assume or 'feel' or think it is true, I know it is bcuz I have read the books, done the research. However, I noticed you didn't even try to respond to a single doctrine I mentioned. Had I been you I would have asked where those doctrines were taught. Either you know about them and don't want to tell others here about them or you don't care that such blasphemy was taught bcuz 'the church is true no matter what' mentality. Truth is defined as that which conforms to the facts or agrees with final reality. Your church did teach everything I said. Accepting it and then dealing with it or seeing the light and doing something about it is something only you can do. But for me to tell you the truth is neither wrong nor offensive. Truth is absolute. That means it doesn't care what you or I or anyone thinks bcuz it is and will always be true. We can accept it or reject it but we can't change the truth- not even by ignoring it, ripping it our of books, denying it or rejecting it.
I'm sorry these things are there, really. But I didn't write them or teach them and I didn't print and publish them to the world, the LDS church did. But now comes the fallout and these things must be faced and answered for.
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The Bible tells us to judge. if we don't judge each other than how do we get justice when a wrong is committed? Are we to simply allow murderers, rapists and child-molesters run wild? Justice demands judgment.
I prefer to judge based on what God says in His word since He is God and knows everything about everything. And, as the LDS also say we have to test what others say to see if it is true. Otherwise someone somewhere will sell us a Bill of goods (scam us).
Skin color means a lot to your church. Until America began to freak out on the LDS church and caused the 'men' leading it to change their god's doctrine black skin was a curse from god and no black could go to the celestial- until all whites who could had.
Actually, those early human-Mormons were speaking for God when they taught the things they did, remember? If you refuse to obey them then you refuse to obey your god. Be careful saying things like that.
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That's your flaw: you're never going to reach anybody unless you treat them as a individual. The Collective Borg only exists in Sci-fi.
I haven't responded to any of your comments on how Mormons are so bad because you have yet to actually address me. Honestly thus far I feel like you're much more interested in saying your opinions, than listening to what I think. Am I wrong about that? (I'd like to be).
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We are to judge right and wrong in our own path. We are not to judge the *beliefs* of another person or cast the first stone (that's for the perfect Judge to do if needed). I do not know with 100% certainty who is getting into Heaven and who is not (again, that's for the perfect Judge), and in the mean time I shall love ALL men.
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Slavery is a problem today by the liberals but it wasn't always so. It was (and is) a way of life. The Jews were slaves for 400 years. I don't see anyone whining and complaining about that. There are still millions of Africans who are slaves to Muslims. I don't see anyone crying about that- not the liberals anyway. Only when it affects America or white people does anyone hoot and holler.
My source for JS saying he didn't want the slaves freed is... many LDS books. One in particular is the Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 120. JS was asked 20 questions one time. The LDs decided to write the questions and answers and put them in their books.
Number 13 is-
Are the Mormons abolitionists?
JS said, "No,... But we do not believe in setting the negroes free."
Agreed. I like to ask questions, not start fights. I do answer questions and comments with the truth (evidence and references). That is often, especially by the LDS, considered offensive and name-calling and trashing their religion. funny thing about it, though, is I only repeat (the messenger) what their leaders taught, printed and published but I get hammered. Their leaders are never spoken against. That is a real wonder and amazement to me. If I an trashing Mormonism and only saying what the LDS leaders taught then what about the leaders who taught it? Are they trashing the LDS and teachings lies?
I don't trash talk anyone. That is not a Christian attitude and it isn't cool. I am, at times, blunt and tactless (or so my family keeps telling me). But that is bcuz I am a product of my upbringing. I was raised to not beat around the bush, to be honest and decent and to tell the truth. I don't take 'feelings' into consideration bcuz they have no lace in things of a factual nature, usually- I don't care how people feel, I care about what is right, true and just. if that makes me bad then... so be it. I'm 57 and set in my ways and not about to change now.
If the LDS church teaches that I would take issue with their assertion. Religious truth is relative to the capacities of the people to whom it is revealed.
The only question you seem to be asking is why can't you expose them? As for the questions asked, I was looking for what the Mormons think. I already know what the detractors believe. I also know what Mormons were saying forty years ago when I took their missionary lessons. If you disagree with a Mormon's answer feel free to provide your evidence to the contrary, but it would be good if you quoted them directly so we know which of their statements you are addressing.[/QUOTE]
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We are to judge others beliefs. After all, doesn't the LDS church teach ALL creeds are wrong and an abomination in the eyes of God? isn't that judging? Your LDS double standard is showing. And wasn't it JS who threw the first stone by saying that?
Well, apparently, JS knew who was going to heaven and hell, too. In fact, the LDS church teaches that it is JS who will decide who goes where, and not Jesus- another LDS doctrine that is hidden away in old LDS books and never taught anymore.
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Again, you're making assumptions and talking *at* people.
And for the record: I'm guessing I would disagree with your beliefs (you haven't really said any though), but I don't doubt your relationship with Christ, or that you try your hardest to do the best you know how. I don't doubt that Christ will judge you the most justly and mercifully He can, and I hope you find a heavenly reward (obviously I can't know for sure). I respect you as a person and try to treat you with the most Christlike love.
Now, how is that double standard? (Which you assumed I had).
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