Sexism and Religion

moneyholster said:

, I learn most of what I know from reading the Bible, commentaries, books, prayer, and thinking. I believe God wants us to take our trust in him seriously.

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Amen! That seems to be one of the primary constants in the Old and New Testaments, and in all the great world religions.

Nobody has really proven why feminist ideology should be taken seriously in the first place.

FireDragon76 said:

Nobody has really proven why feminist ideology should be taken seriously in the first place.

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I would say it depends on which ideology we're talking about. The radical stuff I'd say belongs in the garbage bin, but the idea that men and women should have equal rights and equal opportunity is valid and should be taken seriously.

FireDragon76 said:

Nobody has really proven why feminist ideology should be taken seriously in the first place.

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I mean, I see women as equals to men. Pretty crazy stuff, huh?

Zoness said:

I mean, I see women as equals to men. Pretty crazy stuff, huh?

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Define "equal"

FireDragon76 said:

Nobody has really proven why feminist ideology should be taken seriously in the first place.

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I would think the burden of proof rests with those who would deny women equal rights.

LoAmmi said:

I would say it depends on which ideology we're talking about. The radical stuff I'd say belongs in the garbage bin, but the idea that men and women should have equal rights and equal opportunity is valid and should be taken seriously.

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Agreed. Sadly a lot of people who use the feminist label shouldn't be taken seriously.

I'm all for equal rights, but in my many interactions with so called feminists I have often been let down.

jackcv said:

Thank you, LoveBeingAMuslimah.
I am not familiar enough with the Koran to find those beautiful, and I believe representative, verses. I loved reading them, and am recording them for future reference.

This year I have read the Book of Mormon again, using 4 colors to highlight 4 particular qualities that I wish to develop. One was humility/submission. It is a dominant theme throughout that holy book. Jus a few years ago I found out what Islam and Muslim mean. That discovery opened my eyes to the deep congruence of the great world religions. Suddenly I saw submission as a dominant theme in the Tao te Ching, the Teachings of Buddha, the Bhagavad Gita, certainly the Quran and the Bible.

Thanks for your contribution here.

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Thank you for your kind words : )

There are many verses in the Qur'aan that are ignored because there are those who want to portray Islaam in a negative fashion so they make it seem as if the Qur'aan is all about asking us to partake in unjust violence (which it doesn't). I wish people could see what I see when I read the Qur'aan. It's such a beautiful book.

FireDragon76 said:

Define "equal"

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Balance?
If there is only one of something it cannot be equal to anything else
but
1+1 is equal to 2,

They two shall become one,
back to one again.

Robban said:

Balance?
If there is only one of something it cannot be equal to anything else
but
1+1 is equal to 2,

They two shall become one,
back to one again.

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Example of what I,m thinking,
If there was only one tree on the whole planet,
it could not be said it was equal or unequal to any other tree because it is the only tree.
But if there were two trees, it could be said that this one is better or that one is better,
by making the two one, you see only one tree.

Robban said:

Example of what I,m thinking,
If there was only one tree on the whole planet,
it could not be said it was equal or unequal to any other tree because it is the only tree.
But if there were two trees, it could be said that this one is better or that one is better,
by making the two one, you see only one tree.

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Another,
two "half" souls come into the World and,
find eachother and become one,
One soul, one heart, one mind.

The ultimate being when the curtain goes up, the lights go on
and we are all,
One in Him.
the source.

FireDragon76 said:

Define "equal"

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Holding the same political power as males, having the same social standing and not being limited from pursuing economic, political or social gain due to having a vagina or penis. I'm for the elimination of arbitrary restrictions on women instituted by culture. Additionally I feel that men should be of equal standing as well. One not greater than the other in the scope of achievement. I believe that women have the same (if not greater, scientifically speaking) mental faculties to work in STEM fields and do anything that their male counterparts can and that they should not be limited in authority because "the Bible says so" or "they are too frail".

Robban said:

Balance?
If there is only one of something it cannot be equal to anything else
but
1+1 is equal to 2,

They two shall become one,
back to one again.

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Inequity is the etymological twin sister of iniquity.

Jane_the_Bane said:

I don't know about US law, but less than twenty years ago, rape was defined as "extra-marital" in my country.
Less than forty years ago, married women could only go to work with a written permission of their husband.
Up until 1959, husbands could immediately terminate their wives' working contract. In Bavaria, female teachers had to quit as soon as they got married. Furthermore, husbands had total dominion over every decision, and any wages earned by their wives were to be used by the men as they saw fit, without the women having any legal say in the matter.

None of this would have changed without feminism. Even the most detrimental norms do not change on their own unless someone makes an active effort to draw attention to them.

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(Emphasis mine)

There is general agreement here that the legislated excesses you mentioned are inequity/iniquity. I think we have to consider Feminism one of the instruments of change for the better in these cases. Personally, I consider your last sentence to be unquestionably accurate.

However, none of these excesses ever existed in Utah. The laws there were established in the 1800s by a people who had chosen prophets, seers and revelators to be their governors - and that religious influence promoted equity, family, and prosperity without force, long before "Feminism" was a gleam in a lecher's eye.


I think the Savior was saying much the same thing in Matthew 11:29-30.

The soft influence of revealed religion is far superior to the heavy hammer of Feminism, Communism, Nationalism, or any other human social experiment-ism for producing human happiness.

jackcv said:

However, none of these excesses ever existed in Utah. The laws there were established in the 1800s by a people who had chosen prophets, seers and revelators to be their governors - and that religious influence promoted equity, family, and prosperity without force, long before "Feminism" was a gleam in a lecher's eye.

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Soooo why aren't women allowed to be members of the Priesthood?

I think religion has had a problem with sexism in the past, and still does. However, I can't think of any culture/institution/organisation that has tackled discrimination. Humans are imperfect, after all.

moneyholster said:

Surprisingly, Paul was quite egalitarian for his time.

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Oh, come on! As I show at http://LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/PaulvsAll.html in his own words, Paul fo Tarsus thought he was superior to everybody but God Almighty! And throughout the centuries, it's Paul who has fed the mean conservative streak in "Christianity" that has promoted misogyny, slavery, contempt for gays and for the downtrodden, and support for tyrany.
Now, Jesus was quite another story as I show at http://LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/Women&Jesus.html .

Zoness said:

Soooo why aren't women allowed to be members of the Priesthood?

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That is a very fruitful question.

The answers, of course, are found in the first act of a 3 act play where this mortal life is merely the 2nd act. If you are an athiest or ex nihilo creationist, for example, it is difficult to even see, much less understand.

However, I'll offer a short, incomplete answer to your question:

The attached photo may shed more light.

I humbly recommend that after reading and pondering my weak attempt here, honest seekers of truth ask God about their own intended action steps related to this subject and see what feelings and intuitions the Spirit (inner voice; still, small voice; conscience...) brings to the table.