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The Lord's Day and the Sabbath are the same day in the Bible
- Thread starter BobRyan
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AHH who-stole-my-name
in accordance with Christ
Forest for the trees. Forest for the trees. What right has anyone to determine which day is the Sabbath when it wasn't the day that matters. It's the idea behind it that does. I don't think that God holds time as we do and that a day to him is not equivilant to a 24 hour period of time that it is to us.
It is an appreciation and a reverence of the effort God out in in creating the world and should be held that way. The rest of this is nothing more thar one person deciding another person is less than they for their beliefs. It is not we who have the force of power behind our judgements though it is us who have to account for them.
It is an appreciation and a reverence of the effort God out in in creating the world and should be held that way. The rest of this is nothing more thar one person deciding another person is less than they for their beliefs. It is not we who have the force of power behind our judgements though it is us who have to account for them.
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Not anywhere where we could link to it and see it. All we saw was that the texts and quotes I have given were "inconvenient" for those who opposed it.
you have been rehashing the same stuff that somehow some place you addressed the points - raised.
Yawn.
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Can you show anywhere in Gen 2:1-3, or Ex 20:11 or Exodus 16 where "The day did not matter" and when they went out to gather Manna - they could do it any day they wished - no specific day for Sabbath??
What does Christ say in Mark 7:6-13 about messing with His Commandments?
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Since clearly Gen 2:1-3 comes before events in the book of Joshua - and clearly Ex 20:8-11 comes before events in the book of Joshua.
That is true - but they were keeping God's seventh-day Sabbath as a nation for 40 years prior to that time.
Using that logic - every leader that ever existed for the Jews "Gave them the 7th day Sabbath" -- not a teaching that the Bible supports at all -- as most would agree.
David kept the 7th day Sabbath - as all on this board will also probably agree agree.
So also did those who came after him like Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezra, Nehemiah, Elijah, Ezekiel. The "day" in Psalms 95 was considered to be an "exchange for the 7th day Sabbath" nor "the end of it" - by David or anyone living in his time -- as all on this board will also probably agree agree.
Do you really think that Ps 95 declares the end of the 4th commandment - in David's day??
Ps 95:6-
Come, let us worship and bow down,
Let us kneel before the Lord our Maker.
7 For He is our God,
And we are the people of His pasture and the sheep of His hand.
Today, if you would hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts, as at Meribah,
As in the day of Massah in the wilderness,
9 “When your fathers tested Me,
They tried Me, though they had seen My work.
10 “For forty years I loathed that generation,
And said they are a people who err in their heart,
And they do not know My ways.
11 “Therefore I swore in My anger,
Truly they shall not enter into My rest.”
Until we read the post and see that every point was answered.
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Until you read Rev 1 telling the reader that the book is about the past, present and future.
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place.
19 Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this. NKJV
19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; KJV
Past, present AND future. The Historicist model accepted by the great Protestant Reformation for over 300 years.
I confess to holding to that Protestant reformation teaching.
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QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68525379, member: 235244"]
No wonder then that the Sabbath even applies to gentiles -
Acts 13 -- gentiles keeping the Sabbath.
Acts 17 - gentiles keeping the Sabbath
Acts 18 - gentiles keeping the Sabbath
Is 56 is a special promise given to gentiles who keep the Sabbath.
Thus says the Lord:
“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”
3 Do not let the son of the foreigner
Who has joined himself to the Lord
Speak, saying,
“The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”;
Nor let the eunuch say,
“Here I am, a dry tree.”
4 For thus says the Lord:
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.
6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND"
Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship".
We "gentiles" like to think that we are a big important part of "mankind" -- as it turns out.[/QUOTE]
In Is 66 you have TWO distinct cycles given - the monthly and the weekly cycle "from new moon to new moon AND from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship"
Clearly it is what Isaiah and his readers would have known - as weekly and monthly worship cycles.
Exegesis - dictates this to be the case.
And Is 66 points to the post-1000 year timeline speaking of the Rev 21 "New Earth" and "New heavens"
this is irrefutable.
In the actual Bible "daily" is used to reference "every day".
In the Is 66:23 case we have two distinct cycles one from "new moon to new moon" and another "from Sabbath to Sabbath".
And the scope and range for that Sabbath observance is for "all mankind" according to the text.[/QUOTE]
In the actual Bible "daily" is used to reference "every day".
In the Is 66:23 case we have two distinct cycles one from "new moon to new moon" and another "from Sabbath to Sabbath".
And the scope and range for that Sabbath observance is for "all mankind" according to the text.
No wonder then that the Sabbath even applies to gentiles -
Acts 13 -- gentiles keeping the Sabbath.
Acts 17 - gentiles keeping the Sabbath
Acts 18 - gentiles keeping the Sabbath
Is 56 is a special promise given to gentiles who keep the Sabbath.
Thus says the Lord:
“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”
3 Do not let the son of the foreigner
Who has joined himself to the Lord
Speak, saying,
“The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”;
Nor let the eunuch say,
“Here I am, a dry tree.”
4 For thus says the Lord:
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.
6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND"
Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship".
We "gentiles" like to think that we are a big important part of "mankind" -- as it turns out.
[/QUOTE]In Is 66 you have TWO distinct cycles given - the monthly and the weekly cycle "from new moon to new moon AND from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship"
Clearly it is what Isaiah and his readers would have known - as weekly and monthly worship cycles.
Exegesis - dictates this to be the case.
And Is 66 points to the post-1000 year timeline speaking of the Rev 21 "New Earth" and "New heavens"
this is irrefutable.
In the actual Bible "daily" is used to reference "every day".
In the Is 66:23 case we have two distinct cycles one from "new moon to new moon" and another "from Sabbath to Sabbath".
And the scope and range for that Sabbath observance is for "all mankind" according to the text.[/QUOTE]
In the actual Bible "daily" is used to reference "every day".
In the Is 66:23 case we have two distinct cycles one from "new moon to new moon" and another "from Sabbath to Sabbath".
And the scope and range for that Sabbath observance is for "all mankind" according to the text.
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AHH who-stole-my-name
in accordance with Christ
If you are going to quote me then do me the honor of quoting my entire post so that the intent of my post can be known.
Here it is in it's entirety:
The reason I said that the day and I do mean the day of the week it is held on was because of the OP's topic which so much was made about wither it was on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, ect. What I stated was the day of the week it is held upon is immaterial to what it represents.
I said clearly why it must be held in reverence, which I bolded for your consideration. Please if you are going to read my posts then read it in it's entirety as that is how I posted it. I made no statement diminishing it in any way.
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Cribstyl
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Straw argument with loaded implications we've been debating here for over 10yrs. You're not addressing anything I said.
The scripture is talking about God's creation rest. You're not addressing anything we were talking about.
False, Heb3 and 4 explains that it's talking about God's rest from creation.
Straw..
Same old tricks
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QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68517344, member: 235244"]QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68510579, member: 235244"]Would you also agree the Sabbath commandment was not edited to point to week-day-1 after the cross?
And do you agree that Joshua did not give Israel the 7th day Sabbath??
There was another day spoken of......
Heb 4:3 for we do enter into the rest--we who did believe, as He said, `So I sware in My anger, If they shall enter into My rest--;' and yet the works were done from the foundation of the world,
Heb 4:4 for He spake in a certain place concerning the seventh day thus: `And God did rest in the seventh day from all His works;'
Heb 4:5 and in this place again, `If they shall enter into My rest--;'
Heb 4:6 since then, it remaineth for certain to enter into it, and those who did first hear good news entered not in because of unbelief--
Heb 4:7 again He doth limit a certain day, `To-day,' (in David saying, after so long a time,) as it hath been said, `To-day, if His voice ye may hear, ye may not harden your hearts,'
Heb 4:8 for if Joshua had given them rest, He would not concerning another day have spoken after these things;
Heb 4:9 there doth remain, then, a Sabbath rest to the people of God,
Heb 4:10 for he who did enter into his rest, he also rested from his works, as God from His own.
It points to the Sabbath remaining -- from Ps 95 to this very day.
It makes no case about the Sabbath ending in Ps 95 and so also ending today.
Both Gen 2:1-3 AND Exodus 20:11 speak to that same point - and also tie it to the day God sanctified, blessed and made holy.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Indeed - Joshua did not give them the Gen 2:1-3 7th day Sabbath or the Ex 20:8-11 Sabbath. Rather he led them into Canaan.
Psa 95:10 Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
Psa 95:11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.
All Israel under the age of 40 at the start of those 40 years of wandering in the wilderness - entered Canaan.
Just as Sabbath keeping believers in the days of Psalms 95 entered it.
The Sabbath remains as it was in Ps 95 -- [/QUOTE]
The mere quote of the texts above - will bring that sort of response - from some.
Everyone has free will - do as you please.
in Christ,
Bob
And do you agree that Joshua did not give Israel the 7th day Sabbath??
There was another day spoken of......
Heb 4:3 for we do enter into the rest--we who did believe, as He said, `So I sware in My anger, If they shall enter into My rest--;' and yet the works were done from the foundation of the world,
Heb 4:4 for He spake in a certain place concerning the seventh day thus: `And God did rest in the seventh day from all His works;'
Heb 4:5 and in this place again, `If they shall enter into My rest--;'
Heb 4:6 since then, it remaineth for certain to enter into it, and those who did first hear good news entered not in because of unbelief--
Heb 4:7 again He doth limit a certain day, `To-day,' (in David saying, after so long a time,) as it hath been said, `To-day, if His voice ye may hear, ye may not harden your hearts,'
Heb 4:8 for if Joshua had given them rest, He would not concerning another day have spoken after these things;
Heb 4:9 there doth remain, then, a Sabbath rest to the people of God,
Heb 4:10 for he who did enter into his rest, he also rested from his works, as God from His own.
It points to the Sabbath remaining -- from Ps 95 to this very day.
It makes no case about the Sabbath ending in Ps 95 and so also ending today.
Both Gen 2:1-3 AND Exodus 20:11 speak to that same point - and also tie it to the day God sanctified, blessed and made holy.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Indeed - Joshua did not give them the Gen 2:1-3 7th day Sabbath or the Ex 20:8-11 Sabbath. Rather he led them into Canaan.
Psa 95:10 Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
Psa 95:11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.
All Israel under the age of 40 at the start of those 40 years of wandering in the wilderness - entered Canaan.
Just as Sabbath keeping believers in the days of Psalms 95 entered it.
The Sabbath remains as it was in Ps 95 -- [/QUOTE]
Straw argument with loaded implications we've been debating here for over 10yrs. You're not addressing anything I said.
The scripture is talking about God's creation rest. You're not addressing anything we were talking about.
False, Heb3 and 4 explains that it's talking about God's rest from creation.
Straw..
The mere quote of the texts above - will bring that sort of response - from some.
Everyone has free will - do as you please.
in Christ,
Bob
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Can you show anywhere in Gen 2:1-3, or Ex 20:11 or Exodus 16 where "The day did not matter" and when they went out to gather Manna - they could do it any day they wished - no specific day for Sabbath??
What does Christ say in Mark 7:6-13 about messing with His Commandments?
According to scripture it is wrong to claim that God did not mean a literal 24 hour day and/or that He did not give very specific 'this day and NOT that literal day" instructions as Exodus 16 point out "in DETAIL".
1. Infinite God is fully capable of specifying the exact day as He does in Ex 16 -- to finite beings.
2. Infinite God is fully capable of specifying this animal and not that animal in Lev 11 - to finite beings.
3. Infinite God is fully capable of predicting the exact 490 year timeline that points to the coming of the Messiah in Daniel 9 - to finite beings.
4. Infinite God is fully capable of identifying month and day-of-month -- exactly ... for the Lev 23 first month and 7th month annual feast days... to finite beings!
You cannot blame scripture on those that affirm the details in it.
the point remains.
Last edited:
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AHH who-stole-my-name
in accordance with Christ
What commandments did I mess with?
But I can blame you for not presenting them. Your references are of Chapters and not of the specific text that backs your claims which leads me to believe you had none to begin with. This thing about proving God could relate to other individual things does absolutely nothing to state he determined to tell us in any way what he considered a timeline.
Of course he knows how to tell time, but what would be the benefit of him explaining in the Bible how long in solar days equals a day to him?
What has he to prove to us?
I will point out to you a scripture where he dealt with someone who desired to know more than God was willing to let him as one of his creations know.
Job 38
Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:
2 “Who is this that obscures my plans
with words without knowledge?
3 Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.
4 “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
6 On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?
REFERENCE: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job 38
There is no point here other than maybe a confirmation that you misunderstood me altogether. I at no time said that god lacked any knowledge. I said we lacked knowledge and I meant it.
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So then in Mark 7 - no downsizing / messing with the Commandments of God
============================================================
QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68483827, member: 235244"]so then why do Christians even care at all about God's Commandments? Why bring this subject up at all?
Christ's doctrine on "sola scriptura testing" - includes His view of the God's Commandments vs man made traditions that attempt to set them aside.
(from page 1 of this thread)
Mark 7
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.
The elders consisting of scribes and pharise es are in fact the "magisterium" even Paul admits to this. And Jesus shows how they claim to "sit in the chair of Moses" as church magisterium .
Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying, The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses. Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but they do not practice. (Matthew 23:1-3)
...
Matt 5
17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.[/QUOTE]
============================================================
QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68483827, member: 235244"]so then why do Christians even care at all about God's Commandments? Why bring this subject up at all?
Christ's doctrine on "sola scriptura testing" - includes His view of the God's Commandments vs man made traditions that attempt to set them aside.
(from page 1 of this thread)
Mark 7
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.
The elders consisting of scribes and pharise es are in fact the "magisterium" even Paul admits to this. And Jesus shows how they claim to "sit in the chair of Moses" as church magisterium .
Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying, The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses. Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but they do not practice. (Matthew 23:1-3)
...
Matt 5
17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.[/QUOTE]
Last edited:
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QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68534672, member: 235244"]So then in Mark 7 - no downsizing / messing with the Commandments of God
==================================================
Christ's doctrine on "sola scriptura testing" - includes His view of the God's Commandments vs man made traditions that attempt to set them aside.
Mark 7
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.
The elders consisting of scribes and pharise es are in fact the "magisterium" even Paul admits to this. And Jesus shows how they claim to "sit in the chair of Moses" as church magisterium .
Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying, The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses. Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but they do not practice. (Matthew 23:1-3)
...
Matt 5
17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.[/QUOTE]
Then you do agree - no messing around with the Commandments of God !
Can you show anywhere in Gen 2:1-3, or Ex 20:11 or Exodus 16 where "The day did not matter" and when they went out to gather Manna - they could do it any day they wished - no specific day for Sabbath??
What does Christ say in Mark 7:6-13 about messing with His Commandments?
According to scripture it is wrong to claim that God did not mean a literal 24 hour day and/or that He did not give very specific 'this day and NOT that literal day" instructions as Exodus 16 point out "in DETAIL".
1. Infinite God is fully capable of specifying the exact day as He does in Ex 16 -- to finite beings.
2. Infinite God is fully capable of specifying this animal and not that animal in Lev 11 - to finite beings.
3. Infinite God is fully capable of predicting the exact 490 year timeline that points to the coming of the Messiah in Daniel 9 - to finite beings.
4. Infinite God is fully capable of identifying month and day-of-month -- exactly ... for the Lev 23 first month and 7th month annual feast days... to finite beings!
You cannot blame scripture on those that affirm the details in it.
the point remains.
That accusation is not true in real life. In real life I have presented text after text after text. The fact that they are in context within their containing chapter is not a "fault" it is to the credit of the argument as stated -- the approved method - as I think we would all agree.
Your suggestion that God did not point to the 7th day of the week - the actual day - and make an issue of "the very day" did not survive Exodus 16.
==================================================
Christ's doctrine on "sola scriptura testing" - includes His view of the God's Commandments vs man made traditions that attempt to set them aside.
Mark 7
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.
The elders consisting of scribes and pharise es are in fact the "magisterium" even Paul admits to this. And Jesus shows how they claim to "sit in the chair of Moses" as church magisterium .
Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying, The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses. Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but they do not practice. (Matthew 23:1-3)
...
Matt 5
17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.[/QUOTE]
Then you do agree - no messing around with the Commandments of God !
Can you show anywhere in Gen 2:1-3, or Ex 20:11 or Exodus 16 where "The day did not matter" and when they went out to gather Manna - they could do it any day they wished - no specific day for Sabbath??
What does Christ say in Mark 7:6-13 about messing with His Commandments?
According to scripture it is wrong to claim that God did not mean a literal 24 hour day and/or that He did not give very specific 'this day and NOT that literal day" instructions as Exodus 16 point out "in DETAIL".
1. Infinite God is fully capable of specifying the exact day as He does in Ex 16 -- to finite beings.
2. Infinite God is fully capable of specifying this animal and not that animal in Lev 11 - to finite beings.
3. Infinite God is fully capable of predicting the exact 490 year timeline that points to the coming of the Messiah in Daniel 9 - to finite beings.
4. Infinite God is fully capable of identifying month and day-of-month -- exactly ... for the Lev 23 first month and 7th month annual feast days... to finite beings!
You cannot blame scripture on those that affirm the details in it.
the point remains.
That accusation is not true in real life. In real life I have presented text after text after text. The fact that they are in context within their containing chapter is not a "fault" it is to the credit of the argument as stated -- the approved method - as I think we would all agree.
Your suggestion that God did not point to the 7th day of the week - the actual day - and make an issue of "the very day" did not survive Exodus 16.
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AHH who-stole-my-name
in accordance with Christ
I find it hard to respond to those who do not respond to me. You've shown me absolutely nothing sense what you've shown me doesn't have anything to do with what I've stated.
I never said God did not set down the 7th day as a day of rest. I said the church selecting the day of the week that the 7th day is supposed to fall upon is irrelevant, since it is the it is the day that matters, not wither it lands upon a Friday, a Saturday or a Sunday. I've made that as clear as I could in my last post but was ignored by you.
I also stated that the fault was your's in not designating the scripture that reflected your response, which you also conveniently ignored. I will read scripture until the world falls, but I can not deduce from them your meaning when you are so vague.
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God set apart the 7th day of the week -- Jews admit it, you can even find this in the pro-sunday sources in the signature line -- so it is not "just the Bible" that points it out in Ex 16. The very day of the week - blessed, sanctified, "made holy" not -- any day in 7 that you may wish to pick as your own as we see in Ex 16.
[/quote]I also stated that the fault was your's in not designating the scripture that reflected your response, which you also conveniently ignored. I will read scripture until the world falls, but I can not deduce from them your meaning when you are so vague.[/QUOTE]
I accept the Bible as it reads and have pointed out that your suggestion that the very day of the week is not what God is addressing in Gen 2:1-3, Ex 20:11, Ex 16 does not survive the reading of that text. Yet it is the 7th day of the week in Gen 2, in Ex 20, in Ex 16 and the text proves it.
You appear to be making the circular argument that days mean nothing to God since he is outside of time while admitting God did select the very day of the week that would be sanctified, blessed and holy.
Ex 16
4 Then said the Lord unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.
5 And it shall come to pass, that on the sixth day they shall prepare that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.
...
11 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
12 I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel: speak unto them, saying, At even ye shall eat flesh, and in the morning ye shall be filled with bread; and ye shall know that I am the Lord your God.
13 And it came to pass, that at even the quails came up, and covered the camp: and in the morning the dew lay round about the host.
14 And when the dew that lay was gone up, behold, upon the face of the wilderness there lay a small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground.
15 And when the children of Israel saw it, they said one to another, It is manna: for they wist not what it was. And Moses said unto them, This is the bread which the Lord hath given you to eat.
16 This is the thing which the Lord hath commanded, Gather of it every man according to his eating, an omer for every man, according to the number of your persons; take ye every man for them which are in his tents.
17 And the children of Israel did so, and gathered, some more, some less.
18 And when they did mete it with an omer, he that gathered much had nothing over, and he that gathered little had no lack; they gathered every man according to his eating.
19 And Moses said, Let no man leave of it till the morning.
20 Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto Moses; but some of them left of it until the morning, and it bred worms, and stank: and Moses was wroth with them.
21 And they gathered it every morning, every man according to his eating: and when the sun waxed hot, it melted.
22 And it came to pass, that on THE SIXTH they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
23 And he said unto them, This is that which the Lord hath said, Tomorrow is the rest of THE Holy Sabbath unto the Lord: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
24 And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.
25 And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is the Sabbath unto the Lord: to day ye shall not find it in the field.
26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on THE seventh day, which IS THE Sabbath, in it there shall be none.
27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on THE seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
28 And the Lord said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
29 See, for that the Lord hath given you the Sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.
30 So the people rested on the seventh day.
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AHH who-stole-my-name
in accordance with Christ
I also stated that the fault was your's in not designating the scripture that reflected your response, which you also conveniently ignored. I will read scripture until the world falls, but I can not deduce from them your meaning when you are so vague.[/QUOTE]
I accept the Bible as it reads and have pointed out that your suggestion that the very day of the week is not what God is addressing in Gen 2:1-3, Ex 20:11, Ex 16 does not survive the reading of that text. Yet it is the 7th day of the week in Gen 2, in Ex 20, in Ex 16 and the text proves it.
You appear to be making the circular argument that days mean nothing to God since he is outside of time while admitting God did select the very day of the week that would be sanctified, blessed and holy.
Ex 16
4 Then said the Lord unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.
5 And it shall come to pass, that on the sixth day they shall prepare that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.
...
11 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
12 I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel: speak unto them, saying, At even ye shall eat flesh, and in the morning ye shall be filled with bread; and ye shall know that I am the Lord your God.
13 And it came to pass, that at even the quails came up, and covered the camp: and in the morning the dew lay round about the host.
14 And when the dew that lay was gone up, behold, upon the face of the wilderness there lay a small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground.
15 And when the children of Israel saw it, they said one to another, It is manna: for they wist not what it was. And Moses said unto them, This is the bread which the Lord hath given you to eat.
16 This is the thing which the Lord hath commanded, Gather of it every man according to his eating, an omer for every man, according to the number of your persons; take ye every man for them which are in his tents.
17 And the children of Israel did so, and gathered, some more, some less.
18 And when they did mete it with an omer, he that gathered much had nothing over, and he that gathered little had no lack; they gathered every man according to his eating.
19 And Moses said, Let no man leave of it till the morning.
20 Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto Moses; but some of them left of it until the morning, and it bred worms, and stank: and Moses was wroth with them.
21 And they gathered it every morning, every man according to his eating: and when the sun waxed hot, it melted.
22 And it came to pass, that on THE SIXTH they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
23 And he said unto them, This is that which the Lord hath said, Tomorrow is the rest of THE Holy Sabbath unto the Lord: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
24 And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.
25 And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is the Sabbath unto the Lord: to day ye shall not find it in the field.
26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on THE seventh day, which IS THE Sabbath, in it there shall be none.
27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on THE seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
28 And the Lord said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
29 See, for that the Lord hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.
30 So the people rested on the seventh day.[/QUOTE]
As this again is not a response to anything I stated I will treat any further conversation with you as equally ineffectual. . I wish you a great day and a great life.
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AHH who-stole-my-name
in accordance with Christ
I also stated that the fault was your's in not designating the scripture that reflected your response, which you also conveniently ignored. I will read scripture until the world falls, but I can not deduce from them your meaning when you are so vague.[/QUOTE]
I accept the Bible as it reads and have pointed out that your suggestion that the very day of the week is not what God is addressing in Gen 2:1-3, Ex 20:11, Ex 16 does not survive the reading of that text. Yet it is the 7th day of the week in Gen 2, in Ex 20, in Ex 16 and the text proves it.
You appear to be making the circular argument that days mean nothing to God since he is outside of time while admitting God did select the very day of the week that would be sanctified, blessed and holy.
Ex 16
4 Then said the Lord unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.
5 And it shall come to pass, that on the sixth day they shall prepare that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.
...
11 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
12 I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel: speak unto them, saying, At even ye shall eat flesh, and in the morning ye shall be filled with bread; and ye shall know that I am the Lord your God.
13 And it came to pass, that at even the quails came up, and covered the camp: and in the morning the dew lay round about the host.
14 And when the dew that lay was gone up, behold, upon the face of the wilderness there lay a small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground.
15 And when the children of Israel saw it, they said one to another, It is manna: for they wist not what it was. And Moses said unto them, This is the bread which the Lord hath given you to eat.
16 This is the thing which the Lord hath commanded, Gather of it every man according to his eating, an omer for every man, according to the number of your persons; take ye every man for them which are in his tents.
17 And the children of Israel did so, and gathered, some more, some less.
18 And when they did mete it with an omer, he that gathered much had nothing over, and he that gathered little had no lack; they gathered every man according to his eating.
19 And Moses said, Let no man leave of it till the morning.
20 Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto Moses; but some of them left of it until the morning, and it bred worms, and stank: and Moses was wroth with them.
21 And they gathered it every morning, every man according to his eating: and when the sun waxed hot, it melted.
22 And it came to pass, that on THE SIXTH they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
23 And he said unto them, This is that which the Lord hath said, Tomorrow is the rest of THE Holy Sabbath unto the Lord: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
24 And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.
25 And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is the Sabbath unto the Lord: to day ye shall not find it in the field.
26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on THE seventh day, which IS THE Sabbath, in it there shall be none.
27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on THE seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
28 And the Lord said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
29 See, for that the Lord hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.
30 So the people rested on the seventh day.[/QUOTE]
As you have continually ignored my replies I will ignore your's. You have a fine day now.
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You have said God did not specify the very day of the week to be kept holy - and it was shown that your suggestion does not survive Exodus 16.
This is - irrefutable.
This is - irrefutable.
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And God states that the reverence to be shown - is shown by keeping Holy the very day that HE specifies.
The suggestion that this "very day of the week" idea is not what God was promoting - does not survive Exodus 16.
This is - irrefutable.
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