Prayer and Meditation

tealight

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What are your views on the practice of meditation? (The word 'meditation' can have quite a wide usage - I'm thinking of it here in the sense of letting the mind go still).
A Christian (elsewhere online) whose views I follow sometimes said once that it's a satanic practice. He didn't elaborate much or refer to scripture.
I've wondered where a view like this comes from. Is there a denomination for example that would hold this view?
Is it an east vs west thing?

Also, what is the difference between meditation and prayer from a Christian perspective?
 

St_Worm2

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Hi Tealight, "Christian" meditation is different from Eastern meditation. Rather than emptying one's mind or "letting the mind go still", as you put it, Christian meditation is an active process involving very deliberate thought. It's a focusing of one's mind on a particular external object (which is typically the word of God).

Here are a couple of verses that come to mind to get you started, one from the OT and one from the NT, that should help you begin to understand Christian meditation.

This book of the law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it; for then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have success. Joshua 1:8

Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things. Philippians 4:8

I've gotta go right now, but I hope to be back later.

Yours and His,
David
 
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talitha

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Christian meditation is a very ancient practice, but many evangelicals do not see the value of it. I so. I enjoy spending time quietly in the presence of God. Intentionally putting myself in that position before him, I have often received needed wisdom. I see myself as more passive and God more active in my relationship with Him.
 
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Neogaia777

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What are your views on the practice of meditation? (The word 'meditation' can have quite a wide usage - I'm thinking of it here in the sense of letting the mind go still).
A Christian (elsewhere online) whose views I follow sometimes said once that it's a satanic practice. He didn't elaborate much or refer to scripture.
I've wondered where a view like this comes from. Is there a denomination for example that would hold this view?
Is it an east vs west thing?

Also, what is the difference between meditation and prayer from a Christian perspective?

Still, Quiet, Silent meditation is not demonic or Satanic if your trying to unclutter your mind in order to hear from or ask God something (unclutter you mind to pray)...
 
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St_Worm2

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Still, Quiet, Silent meditation is not demonic or Satanic if your trying to unclutter your mind in order to hear from or ask God something (unclutter you mind to pray)...

There is, of course, nothing wrong with meditation as long as the Christian's mind is engaged, not bypassed (as TM attempts to do) in seeking to know God and/or His truth more deeply. It is, in fact, in engaging our minds on a single religious object that it becomes possible to shut out all the other "voices" (if you will) that clutter our minds and so interfere with our attempts to properly meditate upon His word as we are commanded to do.

The danger of emptying one's mind is in what it may end up being 'filled' with, IOW, something opposed to God and His truth, no matter how subtle the difference is (which is idolatry). Needless to say, Satan is always around and would be very happy to help any Christian out with that :eek:

Yours and His,
David
 
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tealight

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I've been reflecting on what's been said. I think that using the awakeness of the mind in meditation makes more sense than attempting to bypass it. Whenever I've done the more TM style of meditating in the past, it was a lot like sleep at times.
I think what all replies are saying then or would agree across denominations - it's important to be conscious as to intent, whereas TM seems to be more about exploring the subconscious, leaving oneself open etc.

This book of the law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it; for then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have success. Joshua 1:8

Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things. Philippians 4:8
I like these quotes. Thank you.
 
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St_Worm2

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I think what all replies are saying then or would agree across denominations - it's important to be conscious as to intent, whereas TM seems to be more about exploring the subconscious, leaving oneself open etc.

Hi again Tealight, this 'method' of Christian meditation is interdenominational because it is the model given to us throughout the Bible. That is not to say that the Eastern/Pagan model has not made inroads into the church, it has, as its influence seems obvious enough. But the Eastern/Pagan model is not Biblical and can, in fact, be dangerous (for the reasons mentioned above).

We should always be "open" to receiving a broader/clearer/deeper understanding of God's truth, not a 'different' truth or a 'different' god than the one which the Bible clearly teaches. So all Christian meditation must begin and end with the Bible, what we call in Latin our regula fidei or "rule of faith".

I see that you call yourself a "Seeker". If it is not too personal of a question, where has your quest led you so far?

Yours and His,
David

How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked,
Nor stand in the path of sinners,
Nor sit in the seat of scoffers!
But his delight is in the law of the LORD,
And in His law he meditates day and night.
He will be like a tree firmly planted by streams of water,
Which yields its fruit in its season
And its leaf does not wither;

And in whatever he does, he prospers. ~Psalm 1:1-3
 
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tealight

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I see that you call yourself a "Seeker". If it is not too personal of a question, where has your quest led you so far?
Hi David, I didn't pick that label and not sure how it got there. I thought at first it must be what's given to new members. I contacted staff to change it - to "Christian seeker". I'm not sure if that changes the question you asked then... It's not a problem answering anyway, I'm happy to answer questions.

It's hard to know where to start... I suppose I can say I know more definitely where I don't want to go... I have certain beliefs or ideas about the kind of world I want to see and what's right and wrong etc. I feel that other religions such as the new age religion don't seem to fit with that. I grew up in a Catholic culture and from there was 'agnostic' until a few years ago. I'm not sure when exactly but beginning around 2007/08 as there were some big changes in life, which led to wanting to find meaning etc. I then got into studying buddhism for a bit during a difficult time, and some new age type teachings (though while being critical or skeptical of other areas of the new age movement). I then began to get more interested in the idea of good vs evil. I began to realise that a lot of problems I'd experienced in my younger life were because of no relationship with God. I think this applies also to society, what happens in the world etc.
Thank you for the question.
 
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com7fy8

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I think there is meditation which God wants, but what this is will develop as you mature. At first, you might meditate simply by thinking about things in the Bible, and getting ideas about God. Then, as you read more and more about how to love, in the Bible, you might get into meditating about "what would Jesus do?" so you learn more how to love. And I think that with more maturing we are more busy not only with our thinking, but with being with God and submitting to Him, all the time, so we do everything in love (1 Corinthians 16:14) with "rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:28-30). So, even while we do things, we might stay in meditation in order to keep in communion with God and not let anyone or anything distract us.

So, I suppose you could say there is "walking meditation" > how in us, right while we do things, we make sure we do not give in to hurry and worry and fear and anxiety and ill temper and impatience and boredom and loneliness, but we keep with how we are in love and joy and peace, and flowing with how our Father guides us "continually" (Isaiah 58:11). But during prayer we can meditate like this so we are clear of the negative and wrong emotions and feelings, so that in prayer we are submitting to God in His peace and joy and rest. But this way of being with God in prayer is our standard for how we can stay prayerful while doing other things. So we need to keep this deeper-than-words meditation going while we are walking :)

So, meditation is not only about thinking in words, but meditation has to do with which things we allow and seek.

Philippians 2:13 says,

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

To me, this means God is the One who in us works us to meditate how He desires. So, meditation is not our own self-controlling and self-refining thing. This can be a big difference between Christian meditation and other meditation. Non-Christian meditation may have a person depending on oneself to bring oneself into meditation. But in Christianity we depend on God, and we are so deeply personal with Him in us while He is working in us "both to will and to do for His good pleasure."

This is so very personal and intimate, to have You, O God our Father, working right in our wills to have us doing all that You Yourself desire so better than what we can wish and try to get ourselves to do. Whatever He really wants, He Himself will work in our wills to have us do it. And this makes us alive in His love, not puppets!!!!

So, it is so important, then, in meditation to refuse love-dead things like worry and hurry and unforgiveness and lusts for pleasures and bitterness and frustration. When these things start, we need to stop while God corrects us and restores us into sweet and sensitive sharing and submission with Him in His peace. When we do fail, this is what meditation can mean . . . how we stop what is wrong and be attentive to God to see how He corrects us and then has us doing what He wants.

So, our meditation is about flowing with God in His action, and not only words :)

Have you sailed a boat? You might know many words about sailing; but you can't know how to sail, only by what you know or how you meditate about what you have been told. In your little sailboat you need to be sensitive, always fine-tuning how you flow your boat along. You learn to pull or hold or release the sail line the right way, how to adjust your weight and position as you go with the waves and wind, and how to move your rudder stick. Sailing is a meditation, then, in which you need to move faster than you can think; it can be like this while sharing with and submitting to God.

In your little sailboat,
if you steer your little sailboat
straight against the wind,
it will blow you dead in the water,
and then the waves will
flip you up and down and all around;
and this is why your rigging is getting
all r - a - t - t - l - e - d.
But if we flow with the
sweet and gentle breeze,
this will ease us to safe harbor :)
plus the waves of this life's problems
will help to push us there :)
 
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