Which Protestant Body...

~Anastasia~

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Well, I see no need to beat a dead horse. My comments echoing others aren't needed. But we have a new visitor commenting on the level of debating in the forum, and not really wanting to stay because of it, so I think that since we have an area established for debate, this thread ought to move there.

It's not that we mind debate. It's just that there are reasons to have it in a separate forum.

And I don't think the OP intended the thread to be a debate in the beginning, so I don't fault him for putting it there. But we're nearly 500 posts in, and things change. I'd rather move the thread than quash discussion or demand that rules be followed to the detriment of allowing conversation.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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Admin Hat...

Alright, this thread was closed for a cleaning; and it is now open.

I will close it down for good, and make sure there are staff actions handed out if this past derailment and violations of the Congregational rule continue.

This is still OBOB; the EO Forum. As such any one other than a member of the EO may not debate, teach, argue, of flog a dead horse; even if it is their own horse.

This is the final word!

Thread is now closed, and will stay closed.

Mark
Christian Forums Administrator.

PS: Please take that horse elsewhere.

DEAGON%20DEAD-UP.jpg
 
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CelticRebel

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We are not a denomination. We are the Church Christ established.

That is your opinion only. Other Bodies make the same claim. It cannot be backed up with facts. And unfortunately it all too often leads to the disenfranchisement, if you will, of other Christians, or considering them as somehow "second-class". An example is the practice of closed communion. Do you suppose that in heaven there will be a place where Orthodox, or RCC, or landmark Baptists, or any others who hold to closed communion will only be able to partake?

Okay, so I have decided to come back and post. And seeing that this thread has been moved to a place where debate is welcomed, I have offered such. Now if I am told that I am in violation, I shall cease to post entirely because I do not want to break the rules, stir up strife, etc.
 
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ArmyMatt

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It cannot be backed up with facts.

yes it can

And unfortunately it all too often leads to the disenfranchisement, if you will, of other Christians, or considering them as somehow "second-class". An example is the practice of closed communion.

no, it just establishes that there is One Body that Christ established. I don't think an AoG Christian is second class, but he is not a member of the Church. there is NOTHING in history that backs up the idea of open communion.

Do you suppose that in heaven there will be a place where Orthodox, or RCC, or landmark Baptists, or any others who hold to closed communion will only be able to partake?

no, all are Orthodox in heaven. even if they were Baptist, nondenom, pagan, Muslim, etc while on this side of the Last Judgment.

Okay, so I have decided to come back and post. And seeing that this thread has been moved to a place where debate is welcomed, I have offered such. Now if I am told that I am in violation, I shall cease to post entirely because I do not want to break the rules, stir up strife, etc.

I don't think you ever caused strife here Celtic, and I am glad you are back
 
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CelticRebel

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yes it can



no, it just establishes that there is One Body that Christ established. I don't think an AoG Christian is second class, but he is not a member of the Church. there is NOTHING in history that backs up the idea of open communion.



no, all are Orthodox in heaven. even if they were Baptist, nondenom, pagan, Muslim, etc while on this side of the Last Judgment.



I don't think you ever caused strife here Celtic, and I am glad you are back


Of course I would have to disagree with you on your first three responses.

Thanks for your last sentence, Matt; I appreciate it very much. Others here would not agree with you, though.

I may not stay around long, but I have made some friends here, including you, and I have benefited from the discussions and debates.
 
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fat wee robin

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Well, in the end it is, of course, your decision. When I felt the Holy Spirit guiding me AWAY from the Catholic Church, I had trouble discerning his Will, frankly. I was in your shoes thinking, "hmmm, I want the liturgy stuff, like some of what the Fathers have to say, want the Eucharist and priests and deacons and some of the Catholic 'stuff' without the indulgences, papal nonsense, purgatory, and all the bad medieval innovations." I wanted things on my terms. So, I went Anglican. But when I went there, I felt the Holy Spirit stirring me. He made me ill at ease. He MADE ME READ HISTORY!!! I would see the Church united and very different from the modern RCC. So I'd stay Anglican. But I'd feel that this Anglicanism is ABSOLUTELY NOT what God intended His Church to be! Catholic AND Protestant? The Elizabethan Compromise!!!? That's God's will? God intended the small island nation of England to have a king who wanted a divorce, couldn't obtain one, left the Catholic Church, killed his new wife, killed the next one, and his minions like Thomas Cranmer, who were really influenced by Continental Reformist goons like Martin Bucer and the Calvinists, wrecked havoc on the Church!! Read the "Black Rubrics" and look at the awful iconoclasm and hardcore Calvinist garbage that ensued! Then here comes "Bloody Mary" with re-Catholicizing the country only to have it go right back to Protestant. Pretty soon Elizabeth's "compromise" was to allow two religions to co-exist in one religion in a type of bizarre paradox that some thought was really cool, but really resembles NOTHING of the ancient Church?

Did I want to be a member of a faith founded only 500 years ago by a group of politicians in England based on a divorce and Game of Thrones-style intriguing hormone-driven monarchs? Did I want to be in a church with the 39 Articles, basically Calvinism on steroids, as their catechism yet also claiming to be Catholic?

Would I join a Church created by Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton? Nope! Why would I want to join a church based on paradox, contradiction, and politicking in 16th Century England?

So I'd go Catholic, to Anglican, Catholic to Anglican and kept feeling this AWFUL GULF!!!

I found books by Fathers Meyendorff, Schmemman, Ware, etc. I read these Orthodox priests and was BLOWN AWAY that THIS, YES THIS (!!!!) is what I read the Fathers saying!!! Then you get into the Church pre-schism, hey, yes, yes, yes!!! This is what these priests are teaching! Pretty soon you dig into the schism, the Photian stuff before it, the aftermath, and the patristics, and POOF---you have the faith of the ancients.

But they're too ethnic, right? Yeah, too ethnic! I can't go to a Greek or Serbian or Russian Church! I'm Anglo, old school Anglo white bread American. Yeah, uh, I'm Anglican.

Nope.

I have some authority on this topic because, unless I'm not aware, I'm the only person in this TAW forum (not like I'm bragging, actually in many ways I'm quite ashamed!) who has lived for extensive amounts of time in the
Catholic
Anglican
Eastern Catholic
Orthodox Churches.

I have run the gambit. Catholicism is really Catholi-schism. Anglicanism is a hybrid innovation of politics and happenstance for a king who let his glands and passions run his spirit. Orthodoxy is the unspoiled, untainted, pure, deposit of faith.

I'm not sure why you think the Anglicans, because they let you write a blank check, theologically, are preferable to the faith founded by Christ Himself 2,000 years ago that has maintained the purity of doctrine and deposit and sacramental life all that time? Why are you more qualified than the Fathers or the holy Hierarchs of the Orthodox Church to determine truth? What role is modern secular humanism guiding your journey? How much are you expecting the Church to CHANGE YOU rather than you somehow get the Church to do what you want? You say you could be wrong on some things, but so could that body. So, why choose a body that is only 500 years old that has already fallen into bizarre garbage like allowing freaks like "Bishop" Spong to even be a bishop!? Why be with folks who allow a man who suffers with same-sex attraction dump his wife, "marry" another man, and be a "shepherd" over a flock? Why be with a group that allows women's "ordination?" The Episcopals and most of the Anglican Communion allow sodomy and just about any sin to be perfectly fine. Come as you are----STAY AS YOU ARE. Sound like Christ or the Enemy? Do you think the Fathers would sign off on any of those issues? Katharine Jefforts-Schiori? Really?! Come on....

The Anglican Church is in B-A-D shape. Their only hope is the ACNA and common cause partners. My parents attend an ACNA parish. I wish, of course, they'd go Orthodox. Won't happen. I pray that God blesses them, and I pray He blesses you. I hope you re-consider. Secular humanism, modernism, "I'm ok, you're ok" a little bit country and a little bit rock 'n roll, a touch Protestant, a wee bit Catholic, and a whole lotta innovative modernism isn't, in my humble opinion, what God calls us to.
Brilliant , absolutely brilliant .
 
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CelticRebel

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Brilliant , absolutely brilliant .

I actually agree with parts of what Gurney said. However, I can't agree that the Orthodox Church is the one true church founded by Jesus Christ and the apostles. While I agree that much Orthodox doctrine is in accord with the earliest/first century/New Testament churches- in the areas of sin, salvation, and the atonemen - other doctrine is not. I do not find infant baptism, monarchial bishops, EO doctrines of Mary, certain teachings/practices of marriage of ministers, to be apostolic in origin. And if tradition does not line up with scripture, or contradicts scripture, then it should be considered man-made tradition. I do not mean to offend, but that is the conclusion I must reach.

I have come to a conclusion as to which Body I believe is closest to the first century churches in doctrine and practice, but out of respect I'll not post it here in the TAW/Orthodox forum.
 
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CelticRebel

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well, I think you can respond to me here or in PM. if you have evidence I would love to see it. some hard evidence if ye please.

and I do hope you stick around

Thanks, Matt. I appreciate all that you have written and all your responses to me.
 
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ArmyMatt

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I do not find infant baptism, monarchial bishops, EO doctrines of Mary, certain teachings/practices of marriage of ministers, to be apostolic in origin.

we have defended infant baptism from Scripture, you just keep seeing it only through your POV. I stated before that your concepts of monarchial bishops is not ours, so I don't know why that is brought up. Marian stuff comes from many sources, one of which being the Protoevangelion of James, which is very early. your opinion concerning remarried clergy is based on opinion and also not found in the Scripture either.

that being said, glad you are back Celtic. place was not the same without you.
 
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