Defunding Planned Parenthood

ebia said:

Those tax dollars provide certain services and presumably are tied to those services in an audited manner. In which case I presume they'd cut those services if you remove the funding.

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They might, but plenty of other people offer it and would pick it up. Or they could use a little of all their own money.

brewmama said:

They might, but plenty of other people offer it and would pick it up. Or they could use a little of all their own money.

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So let's say the government decided to stop funding a major catholic hospital or project. The church would say "doesn't matter" and carry on as before funding it out of its own reserves?

brewmama said:

You give no contradictory information, and yet deny an outright claim that all PP affiliates must provide abortions by a certain date. Why do you say it is false?! What do you have against the Susan B. Anthony List? Why do you say I wan't responding to a particular statement when I clearly was?

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http://plannedparenthood.org/health-center/CO/

Here are the first 5

Alamosa Alamosa
Maps & Directions
1560 12th Street #7 Alamosa CO 81101 1560+12th+Street,+Alamosa,+CO+81101,+USA+(Alamosa)
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Location
1560 12th Street #7
Alamosa, CO 81101
p: 719.589.4906
f: 719.589.3034


View Hours & Service Details »

Operated by: Planned Parenthood of the Rocky Mountains, Inc.


Services Offered

• Abortion Services
• Birth Control
• General Health Care
• HIV Testing
• Men's Health Care

• Morning-After Pill (Emergency Contraception)
• Pregnancy Testing & Services
• STD Testing, Treatment & Vaccines
• Women's Health Care

Insurance Plans Accepted
If you don't have insurance, you may be able to get covered under Obamacare. Open enrollment is over. See if you can still get coverage. With or without insurance, you can always come to us for your health care.

• Aetna
• All Savers Insurance Company (United Healthcare)
• Ameriben
• Anthem
• Assurant Health
• Blue Cross
• Blue Cross Blue Shield

• Blue Shield
• Child Health Plan Plus
• Cigna
• Cofinity
• Colorado Access
• Colorado Choice Health Plans
• Coventry

• Great West
• HMOx - Humana
• Humana
• Kaiser Permanente (only certain services and locations)
• Local Plus (Cigna)
• Medica
• Medicaid

• New Health Ventures (Colorado Access)
• Pathway - Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield
• Rocky Mountain Health Plans (RMHP)
• San Luis Valley HMO
• Tricare
• United

Arvada Arvada
Maps & Directions
7853 N Wadsworth Blvd. Arvada CO 80003 7853+N+Wadsworth+Blvd.,+Arvada,+CO+80003,+USA+(Arvada)
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Location
7853 N Wadsworth Blvd.
Arvada, CO 80003
p: 303.425.6624
f: 303.425.6101
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Operated by: Planned Parenthood of the Rocky Mountains, Inc.


Services Offered

• Abortion Referral
• Birth Control
• General Health Care
• HIV Testing
• Men's Health Care

• Morning-After Pill (Emergency Contraception)
• Pregnancy Testing & Services
• STD Testing, Treatment & Vaccines
• Women's Health Care

Insurance Plans Accepted
If you don't have insurance, you may be able to get covered under Obamacare. Open enrollment is over. See if you can still get coverage. With or without insurance, you can always come to us for your health care.

• Aetna
• All Savers Insurance Company (United Healthcare)
• Ameriben
• Anthem
• Assurant Health
• Blue Cross
• Blue Cross Blue Shield

• Blue Shield
• Child Health Plan Plus
• Cigna
• Cofinity
• Colorado Access
• Colorado Choice Health Plans
• Coventry

• Great West
• HMOx - Humana
• Humana
• Kaiser Permanente (only certain services and locations)
• Local Plus (Cigna)
• Medica
• Medicaid

• New Health Ventures (Colorado Access)
• Pathway - Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield
• Rocky Mountain Health Plans (RMHP)
• San Luis Valley HMO
• Tricare
• United

Aurora Aurora
Maps & Directions
1284 S. Abilene St Aurora CO 80012 1284+S.+Abilene+St,+Aurora,+CO+80012,+USA+(Aurora)
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Location
1284 S. Abilene St
Aurora, CO 80012
p: 303.671.7526
f: 303.671.7544
View Hours & Service Details »

Operated by: Planned Parenthood of the Rocky Mountains, Inc.


Services Offered

• Abortion Services[b/]
  [*]Birth Control
  [*]General Health Care
  [*]HIV Testing
  [*]Men's Health Care
  

• Morning-After Pill (Emergency Contraception)
• Pregnancy Testing & Services
• STD Testing, Treatment & Vaccines
• Women's Health Care

Insurance Plans Accepted
If you don't have insurance, you may be able to get covered under Obamacare. Open enrollment is over. See if you can still get coverage. With or without insurance, you can always come to us for your health care.

• Aetna
• All Savers Insurance Company (United Healthcare)
• Ameriben
• Anthem
• Assurant Health
• Blue Cross
• Blue Cross Blue Shield

• Blue Shield
• Child Health Plan Plus
• Cigna
• Cofinity
• Colorado Access
• Colorado Choice Health Plans
• Coventry

• Great West
• HMOx - Humana
• Humana
• Kaiser Permanente (only certain services and locations)
• Local Plus (Cigna)
• Medica
• Medicaid

• New Health Ventures (Colorado Access)
• Pathway - Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield
• Rocky Mountain Health Plans (RMHP)
• San Luis Valley HMO
• Tricare
• United

Boulder Boulder
Maps & Directions
2525 Arapahoe Ave, Suite C-200 Boulder CO 80302 2525+Arapahoe+Ave,+Boulder,+CO+80302,+USA+(Boulder)
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Location
2525 Arapahoe Ave, Suite C-200
Boulder, CO 80302
p: 303.447.1040
f: 303.447.2882
View Hours & Service Details »

Operated by: Planned Parenthood of the Rocky Mountains, Inc.

Services Offered

• Abortion Services
• Birth Control
• General Health Care
• HIV Testing
• Men's Health Care

• Morning-After Pill (Emergency Contraception)
• Pregnancy Testing & Services
• STD Testing, Treatment & Vaccines
• Women's Health Care

Insurance Plans Accepted
If you don't have insurance, you may be able to get covered under Obamacare. Open enrollment is over. See if you can still get coverage. With or without insurance, you can always come to us for your health care.

• Aetna
• All Savers Insurance Company (United Healthcare)
• Ameriben
• Anthem
• Assurant Health
• Blue Cross
• Blue Cross Blue Shield

• Blue Shield
• Child Health Plan Plus
• Cigna
• Cofinity
• Colorado Access
• Colorado Choice Health Plans
• Coventry

• Great West
• HMOx - Humana
• Humana
• Kaiser Permanente (only certain services and locations)
• Local Plus (Cigna)
• Medica
• Medicaid

• New Health Ventures (Colorado Access)
• Pathway - Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield
• Rocky Mountain Health Plans (RMHP)
• San Luis Valley HMO
• Tricare
• United

Colorado Springs Westside Colorado Springs
Maps & Directions
3480 Centennial Blvd. Colorado Springs CO 80907 3480+Centennial+Blvd.,+Colorado+Springs,+CO+80907,+USA+(Colorado+Springs+Westside)
MAKE APPOINTMENT More Info
Get Directions From:

Location
3480 Centennial Blvd.
Colorado Springs, CO 80907
p: 719.475.7162
f: 719.475.2201
View Hours & Service Details »

Operated by: Planned Parenthood of the Rocky Mountains, Inc.

Services Offered

• Abortion Services
• Birth Control
• General Health Care
• HIV Testing
• Men's Health Care

• Morning-After Pill (Emergency Contraception)
• Pregnancy Testing & Services
• STD Testing, Treatment & Vaccines
• Women's Health Care

Insurance Plans Accepted
If you don't have insurance, you may be able to get covered under Obamacare. Open enrollment is over. See if you can still get coverage. With or without insurance, you can always come to us for your health care.

• Aetna
• All Savers Insurance Company (United Healthcare)
• Ameriben
• Anthem
• Assurant Health
• Blue Cross
• Blue Cross Blue Shield

• Blue Shield
• Child Health Plan Plus
• Cigna
• Cofinity
• Colorado Access
• Colorado Choice Health Plans
• Coventry

• Great West
• HMOx - Humana
• Humana
• Kaiser Permanente (only certain services and locations)
• Local Plus (Cigna)
• Medica
• Medicaid

• New Health Ventures (Colorado Access)
• Pathway - Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield
• Rocky Mountain Health Plans (RMHP)
• San Luis Valley HMO
• Tricare
• United

ebia said:

So let's say the government decided to stop funding a major catholic hospital or project. The church would say "doesn't matter" and carry on as before funding it out of its own reserves?

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Well, here's one example found in less than a minute

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/c...s-govt-funding-to-maintain-religious-liberty/

brewmama said:

Well, here's one example found in less than a minute

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/c...s-govt-funding-to-maintain-religious-liberty/

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Sorry, but a scan of it doesn't seem to answer my question.
Are they offering all the same services to the same extent to all the same people?

You seem to have missed answering this one

ebia said:

So there's thousands of councellors etc sitting around being paid in all those other providers, with no work to do? Who the heck is funding that?

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brewmama said:

Yes. You do realize what a total lie the "lack of health care" has been?

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Total lie describes the situation correctly.

For example:

Secretary of Health and Human Services Sylvia Mathews Burwell defended federal funding for Planned Parenthood this week by invoking the women’s-health shield. “What I think is important is that our HHS funding is focused on issues of preventative care for women, things like mammograms,” Burwell told the House Education and Workforce Committee.

Just one teeny, tiny problem with this defense: It’s a completely calculated fabrication.
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/planned parenthoods-mammogram-lie-

Once again, it was undercover pro-life journalists who unmasked the truth. An investigation of 30 Planned Parenthood clinics in 27 different states, conducted by the pro-life group Live Action, confirmed that the abortion provider does not perform breast-cancer screenings. “We don’t provide those services whatsoever,” a staffer at Planned Parenthood of Arizona confessed on tape. Planned Parenthood’s Comprehensive Health Center clinic in Overland Park, Kan., admitted: “We actually don’t have a, um, mammogram machine at our clinics.”

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Obama gets elected with this lie, and no one in the media will call him on it. Facts make no difference, when the lies make the point so much better.

PapaZoom said:

According to life news: 40 percent of all reported abortions committed in the United States occur at a Planned Parenthoodclinic, making it by far the largest abortion provider in America. (Editor’s note: When using the national abortion numbers from the Guttmacher Institute, Planned Parenthood does 27.5 percent of all abortions in the United States,)http://www.lifenews.com/2012/09/05/media-hides-fact-planned-parenthood-does-40-of-abortions/

Even at 35% of US abortions done at PP that is approx 1225 abortions per day.

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The conversation won't be able to move further until the other side agrees to stop taking the word of Planned Parenthood as indisputable truth. That's all there is to it.

PapaZoom said:

According to life news: 40 percent of all reported abortions committed in the United States occur at a Planned Parenthoodclinic, making it by far the largest abortion provider in America. (Editor’s note: When using the national abortion numbers from the Guttmacher Institute, Planned Parenthood does 27.5 percent of all abortions in the United States,)http://www.lifenews.com/2012/09/05/media-hides-fact-planned-parenthood-does-40-of-abortions/

Even at 35% of US abortions done at PP that is approx 1225 abortions per day.

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Planned Parenthood is in the business of killing babies. That is their revenue source.

If stats show anywhere from 27 percent to 40, one third is an easy ball park figure to remember.
One third is reminiscent of any disaster that is of apocalyptic dimensions.

Democrats and liberals are in the business of protecting those who snuff out human life before it has a chance to even breathe.

The Catholics who take Planned Parenthood's side against the Church will boast about all the secular friends they have from it and their monetary success, but they will eventually be judged for it sooner or later.

It is a ghoulish logic that would have us keep priests who abuse children leading our flocks because of the shortage of priests.
It is the same logic that is now being used here to keep the ghouls of PP in business because there are a shortage of health care providers.

Except that there really is a shortage of priests.
And no one would be so shamelessly demented to to make that kind of argument on behalf of priests regardless of any shortage.

MikeK said:

If you're offering to take the place of someone to make it more likely that my offer of sacrifice and charity come to fruition, I applaud you. If all you care to offer is snark, well...it's about what I expected.

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Your challenge could be posted in literally any conversation about political policy. You know nothing about what people already do with their money, what they give already, and what constraints they have on their income. And even if someone did happen to give less to charity than they were capable of, it would do nothing to affect the validity of their arguments.

You made the challenge not out of any attempt at charity, but to try to silence or discredit one side of the argument.

SolomonVII said:

It is a ghoulish logic that would have us keep priests who abuse children leading our flocks because of the shortage of priests.
It is the same logic that is now being used here to keep the ghouls of PP in business because there are a shortage of health care providers.

Except that there really is a shortage of priests.
And no one would be so shamelessly demented to to make that kind of argument on behalf of priests regardless of any shortage.

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Is anyone here suggesting that abortion on demand should remain the law of the land or that PP should continue to murder children en masse or are you constructing a convinient but elaborate straw man so as to avoid a sincere conversation?

MoonlessNight said:

Your challenge could be posted in literally any conversation about political policy. You know nothing about what people already do with their money, what they give already, and what constraints they have on their income. And even if someone did happen to give less to charity than they were capable of, it would do nothing to affect the validity of their arguments.

You made the challenge not out of any attempt at charity, but to try to silence or discredit one side of the argument.

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Balderdash. I know what I give and what I intend to give. My intent is the same as any who offer to match donations during a pledge drive - it is to maximize the effect of my plsacrifice. Alone I can (and will) do a bit, but with others I can do much more. My inspiration for this challenge came from Relevant Radio (read: politically conservative Catholic radio) dinars who offer similar deals.

As a reminder to all, here's what the bishops have said about Planned Parenthood.

USCCB Fact Sheet: Planned Parenthood Federation of America

• The Planned Parenthood Federation of America (PPFA) is the single largest abortion provider in the United States. In 2005 its affiliates performed 264,943 surgical and "medical" (i.e., RU-486) abortions -- a new record, and about 10,000 more abortions than in 2004, at a time when abortions are declining overall.1 PPFA is responsible for 1 in 5 abortions in the U.S.
• While PPFA claims to serve women's "choices," it reports providing prenatal care to just 12,548 women in 2005, and infertility services to only 248. Together these are one-twentieth the number of abortions it performs. For 2005 it reported no adoption referrals (compared to 1,414 the previous year).2
• PPFA takes in enormous revenues: $902.8 million in the year ending June 30, 2006 ($55.8 million more than expenses). Significant revenues are generated by charging $350-$650 per abortion. Over a third of its income, $305.3 million, was from taxpayers' dollars -- 12% more than in the previous year, and another all-time record.3
• PPFA says it wants to reduce abortions, yet advocates unrestricted access to abortion and lobbies and/or files suit against even very modest and widely supported laws that reduce abortions: laws requiring informed consent, a 24-hour waiting period after counseling to think over the decision, parental notification or consent before a minor daughter's abortion, state and federal bans on the gruesome partial-birth abortion procedure, recordkeeping and reporting of abortions, and a ban on transporting minors across state lines for abortions to circumvent a home state's parental involvement law. 4
• "Freedom of choice" does not apply to those who disagree with PPFA. It strongly opposes laws recognizing a right of conscience for doctors and nurses morally opposed to abortion, referring to these dismissively as "refusal clauses." When government has said it will not force health professionals to violate their medical and moral judgment on abortion, PPFA makes the bizarre claim that such a policy "intrudes on private, personal medical decision making." PPFA, a corporate entity, dismisses conscientious objections by hospitals and health care organizations as "the whims of a corporate entity." 5
• PPFA promotes over-the-counter sales of high-dose "emergency contraceptive" (EC) pills, even to minors, although lower-dose birth control pills require a prescription due to health risks.6 PPFA also opposes conscience rights for pharmacists who object to dispensing these drugs due to their abortifacient potential.7 To promote EC use, PPFA affiliates hold "Free EC Days" around the country,8 despite numerous studies showing that EC programs do not reduce unplanned pregnancies or abortions.9
• Another PPFA giveaway is condoms. Consumer Reports ranked two PPFA condom brands dead last (and the only ones rated "poor") among 23 brands tested for strength and reliability, discovering a (presumably unintentional) way to keep condom users coming back for abortions and STD treatment.10
• PPFA practices a very selective form of generosity to the victims of horrible tragedy. After so many lost their lives in the 9/11 terrorist attack, the January 2006 Sago Mine disaster, and Hurricane Katrina, PPFA offered relief to survivors ... in the form of free birth control and abortions.11
• PPFA strongly supports the dangerous abortion drug RU-486, promoted its approval by the FDA, and volunteered to conduct early U.S. drug trials. In one trial the patient nearly bled to death, but the PPFA affiliate did not report this as an "adverse event."12 Young Californians Holly Patterson and Vivian Tran died from toxic poisoning after Planned Parenthood's RU-486 abortions.13 PPFA's promotion of RU-486 continues, despite a medical finding that the risk of death after such abortions, from infection alone, is ten times the risk of death from all causes in surgical abortions at the same stage of pregnancy.14 Some affiliates even flout FDA protocols by giving RU-486 for abortions up to one week later than the time the FDA found such use "safe."15
• PPFA exports its ideology to developing nations, promoting abortion as family planning and even pressing for U.S. taxpayer support of organizations involved in coerced abortion programs abroad. In 1983, the then-current president of PPFA co-authored and signed a notorious International Planned Parenthood Federation (IPPF) declaration urging affiliates to violate their own countries' laws and perform illegal abortions: "Family Planning Associations and other non-governmental organizations should not use the absence of a law or the existence of an unfavourable law as an excuse for inaction; action outside the law, and even in violation of it, is part of the process of stimulating change."16

Source

MikeK said:

I don't think that's what is being said at all. We should always tell the whole truth. They perform services that are gravely evil and they also do some things that are very good. The good they do does not mitigate or excuse the evil, but we harm our movement when we refuse to aknowledge the good that PP does while we hammer on their evils. It makes it very easy for the pro-choice side to turn the discussion into a binary mesage of us vs them, and label us as the dishonest bad guys.

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PapaZoom acknowledged the good that PP does, and stated unequivocally that he would support them if not for the evil.
As a commentator wrote, would any of us give a professional driver a green light if he drove drunk even three percent of the time?

Whatever the amount of actual revenue that PP generates from abortion and the human parts trade, even if it is just 3 percent, is there a percentage that would be morally okay for a Catholic to want their tax dollars spent on keeping this kind of business profitable?

If PP would sacrifice the 3 percent for the 97 percent, then there would be no reason to de-fund them.

Otherwise, de-fund the ghouls. It is the only moral thing that any decent American ought to insist upon.

I decided to go to FactCheck.org to find out the truth about the clandestine Planned Parenthood videos recorded by the "Center for Medical Progress." The article determined that the amounts per specimen discussed would barely cover the transfer and shipping costs. In addition, it determined that as long as profit is not involved, there was nothing illegal in using the remains, with the women's consent, for medical research.

According to the Guttmacher Institute, a nonprofit focused on sexual and reproductive health, tissue from fetuses has been used since the 1930s for a variety of purposes. Perhaps most famously, the 1954 Nobel Prize in medicine was awarded to researchers who managed to grow polio vaccine in fetal kidney cell cultures.

In another example, Leonard Hayflick created a cell line from an aborted fetus in the early 1960s that has been used to create vaccines against measles, rubella, shingles and other diseases. Paul Offit, director of the Vaccine Education Center at the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, told the journal Nature in 2013 that “[t]hese cells from one fetus have no doubt saved the lives of millions of people.”

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It is possible that women who have had abortions might gain some comfort in knowing that donating the fetal tissue might help save many lives--as did the fetuses used to develop polio vaccines. They might grieve, as parents who donate the organs of a child who died tragically, but they might derive some comfort--would you deny them that comfort?

I had a miscarriage once, four months, and if that fetus could have been used to develop vaccines or cure dread diseases like polio, I would have consented (as it was, I miscarried at home, brought the remains to the obstetrician--they did a pathology report and then disposed of him in whatever way it was done in the late 1970's....) His soul is with God and I think if his remains could have developed a vaccine or a cure that would have been honoring his brief pre-born life...

I have a friend whose baby died during heart surgery at the age of 5 weeks. The doctors wanted to do an autopsy to learn how they could improve the operation (this was 1974) to save other babies. Emotionally, she didn't want to allow it, but when I see all the babies who survive infant heart surgery today I know that her little girl's autopsy contributed to the success of that surgery today.

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/unspinning-the-planned-parenthood-video/

LivingWordUnity said:

MikeK has reminded me more than once how he has more monetary success than me.

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I offered a percent-of-income deal, very similar to the flat tax that some of your favorite political minds have suggested - except that I offered a larger % than I asked of you. You can play this game and waffle about or we can put away our differences and work together to save lives. I have extended you a chance to make a difference, to amplify your sacrifice.

MikeK said:

Is anyone here suggesting that abortion on demand should remain the law of the land or that PP should continue to murder children en masse or are you constructing a convinient but elaborate straw man so as to avoid a sincere conversation?

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The policy of the Democrats have always been that abortion on demand is to remain the law of the land.
In a forum about politics, where there are a preponderance of Americans, and roughly one half or more are voting for a political party whose one absolute principle is that abortion on demand must remain the law of the land, how is it a straw man to point this out.

It is a logical inanity to think that people can support PP and not support PP at the same time.

If PP is to continue to receive funds, and people here are to continue to run interference with any plans to de-fund them, then the people running the interference are supporting the status quo.

That not only includes providing tax dollars to this abortion mill, but now includes providing tax dollars to an organization that has been exposed in trafficking in body parts.

If that is not seen as ghoulish, then nothing ever will be seen as ghoulish.

MikeK said:

I offered a percent-of-income deal, very similar to the flat tax that some of your favorite political minds have suggested - except that I offered a larger % than I asked of you. You can play this game and waffle about or we can put away our differences and work together to save lives. I have extended you a chance to make a difference, to amplify your sacrifice.

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I will let Jesus be my judge since he knows me and what I have or have not done for charity better than you do.