Hello my friend. Thank you for your reply.
I have one problem in particular with what was said above. You say that the Lake of Fire was "originally intended" for the Devil and his angels. Does this mean that God created the Lake of Fire, but when mankind thwarted His will in the Garden, He had to resort to a plan B that involves torturing at least 90% of the billion and billions of people that have all lived on Earth?
On what day did God make this place called hell? When did He create the Lake of Fire. Genesis 1 says that God created ALL things in Six Days, and on the Seventh Day, He rested from ALL of His work. If there is a literal Hell, then in order to hold all the people that presently live (as well as the billions of people that have died), it would have to be massively bigger than Earth. Why does it not even get a sentence in Genesis 1?
Also, if our Father "needs" to torture and burn any
one of His creations for trillions and trillions and trillions...of eternal, never ending, never forgiving years, then no, God cannot be Love. He created every person that has ever lived without ever consulting them first. He put the Muslim in Iraq. He put the pagan in Rome. He made each person with their own Unique physical features, minds, families, communities, countries, and experiences.
Before I was born, there was no angel that came and asked "God would like to give you a choice. Make it of your own free will. Would you like to be annihilated right now, or would you like the opportunity to live forever? However, there's a catch. You will not know anything when you are born, God is going to put you wherever He has determined you should go, and there's about a 95% chance that you will either be an unbeliever, or you will be a heretic. If this happens, you will be burned and tormented. And this won't just last for ever. It will last forever
and ever!"
If I told that angel yes, then surely the Love of God would have led Him to destroy me right then for making such a stupid decision.
My friend, are you still not carnal? Do you not know that God works all things after the council of His own will? Do you not know that God makes peace, and creates evil?
Please my friend, listen carefully to the following Scripture, and then know that God does indeed do all things:
"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me:
I kill, and I make alive;
I wound, and I heal: neither is there
any that can deliver out of my hand.
For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever." Deuteronomy 32:39
"
The LORD killeth, and maketh alive:
he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up." 1 Samuel 2:6
"And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave,
and the LORD hath taken away;
blessed be the name of the LORD." Job 1:21
"
For he maketh sore, and bindeth up:
he woundeth, and his hands make whole." Job 5:18
Remember when Saul committed suicide?
"Then said Saul to his armourbearer, Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith;
lest these uncircumcised come and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not; for he was sore afraid.
So Saul took a sword, and fell upon it. " 1 Chronicles 10:4
It says Saul took his own life, and it even gives the reason why he made that decision. But who actually killed Saul?
"So Saul died
for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it;
And enquired not of the LORD:
therefore HE slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse." 1 Chronicles 10:13
My friend, God kills everyone. And He will raise everyone on the determined Day. He will teach all men righteousness, and everyone will know that He is the One True God, and that His Son Yeshua is Lord. This IS Eternal Life.
I assure you my brother, I have no problem with God's nature, nor His character. These two things are why I am so fond of Him.
Yes, Yeshua came in the flesh. He was a human man. He died, and was risen three days later. He was sown in corruptible flesh, and raised in incorruptible spirit. Yeshua indeed has a "spiritual body" of flesh and blood, but it is not a "natural" body. Fire burns natural bodies. Yeshua lives to this day, and as you said, He has eyes of Fire. Does this not burn Him?
Consider the devil. He is also thrown into the Lake of Fire, with death and hell. Do death and hell have nerves? Does the devil? The devil definitely doesn't have human flesh, so how does this fire burn these things? How do you hurt death?
The Scriptures do not speak of a "Resurrection of Damnation". What does "damn" mean, especially to a 16th century Englishman?
The Greek translated damnation is
κρίσις (krisis), and according to Strong's Concordance,
κρίσις means:
"judging, judgment, decision, sentence; generally: divine judgment; accusation."
It is the Resurrection unto Judgment, when the Father will Judge the world in Righteousness:
"With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy
judgments are in the earth, the
inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness." Isaiah 26:9
The Scriptures do not say anything about men being raised in a different body than another. We are all sown in corruption, and we will all be raised incorruptible. Who makes us differ from another?
"Therefore
judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both
will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts:
and then shall every man have praise of God.
And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and
to Apollos for your sakes;
that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.
For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not
receive? now if thou didst
receive it,
why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst
not received
it?" 1 Corinthians 4:55
"Even the righteousness of God
which is by faith of Jesus Christ
unto ALL and upon all them that believe:
for there is no difference:
For
all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Being justified
freely by HIS grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" Romans 3:22
First I want to show you what the KJV says in its header before this story:
"The
Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus"
This is a parable. It did not really happen and it will never happen. If we examine this passage, we will see that it is impossible for this story to be taken as Gehenna:
"There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:"
We see the Rich man is wearing purple (royalty) and fine linen. Who else wore fine linen?
"....and they shall make holy
garments for
Aaron thy brother,
and his sons, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.
And they shall take gold, and blue, and
purple, and scarlet, and
fine linen." Exodus 28:4
The Rich man was wearing the same clothes as the people Yeshua was talking too:
"And
the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him." Luke 16:14
The Rich man is not a real person.
"And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores."
Interesting fact. Yeshua spoke Aramaic. Here is what Strong's Concordance says about Lazarus:
"Lazarus,
Eliezer, (a) the beggar, (b) the brother of Martha and Mary, of Bethany."
(
Also, Thayer's Concordance says of Lazarus: an imaginary person, extremely poor and wretched)
Poor Eliezer is not given the credit that he deserves, but he was a humble man that served his Lord Abraham well. This is what the Scriptures say of Eliezer:
"After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me,
seeing I go childless, and the
steward of my house is this
Eliezer of Damascus?
And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given
no seed: and, lo,
one born in my house is mine heir.
And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying,
This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir." Genesis 15:1
Eliezer was Abraham's most faithful servant, and Abraham was prepared to make him heir of all his possessions. But God says that Eliezer will not be heir, it will be of Abraham's own seed. Abraham was the first Hebrew, so this would make Eliezer a
Gentile.
After Abraham had Isaac, Eliezer knew for sure that he would receive nothing. It must have been hard to think that you would receive all these great possessions, and then see it go to somebody else. But Eliezer was a faithful servant. Rather than hinder Isaac's birthright, he goes out to find a wife for the very man that took everything from him!
"And Abraham said unto his
eldest servant of his house, that ruled over all that he had, Put, I pray thee, thy hand under my thigh:
And I will make thee swear by the LORD, the God of heaven, and the God of the earth, that thou shalt not take a wife unto my son of the daughters of the Canaanites, among whom I dwell:
But thou shalt go unto my country, and to my kindred, and
take a wife unto my son Isaac." Genesis 24:1
Lazarus was not a real person.
"And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;"
Where is Abraham's bosom? Is this our destiny? To be in the bosom of a man? This verse is not literal:
"Thou wilt say then, The branches were
broken off, that I might be
graffed in.
Well; because of
unbelief they were
broken off, and thou standest by faith.
Be not highminded, but fear:
For if God
spared not the natural branches,
take heed lest he also
spare not thee." Romans 11:19
And in hell (δης: Hades
) he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
The Rich man is in Hades, the unseen, the destination of all mankind. In Hebrew, this is called
שְׁאוֹל (Sheol), and every man will go there. This verse says nothing about "hell".
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
I highly, highly doubt if someone is in that terrible disgusting place called "hell", they would really be concerned about a "drop of water". Besides, there is plenty of water around already, as we will soon see. But first:
"But whosoever drinketh of the
water that I shall give him shall
never thirst; but the
water that I shall give him shall be in him a
well of water springing up into everlasting life." John 4:14
This is not literal water.
But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Do you see how God had given the Jews everything. They are His chosen people. He gave then the Law and the Prophets and every Spiritual blessing. Now, there is something different that is about to take place.
And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
A gulf is: a deep inlet of the
sea almost surrounded by land, with a narrow mouth. There is water all around this place. Why did the Rich man need Lazarus to give him a drop of water, if he could have just walked to the gulf?
"What then?
Israel hath
not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the
election hath obtained it, and
the rest were blinded
(According as it is written, God hath given them the
spirit of slumber, eyes that they should
not see, and ears that they should
not hear
unto this day.
And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a
stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
I say then,
Have they stumbled that they should fall? God
forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy." Romans 11:7
The gulf is not a literal gulf.
Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
"And it came to pass, when Israel dwelt in that land, that Reuben went and lay with Bilhah his father's concubine: and Israel heard it. Now the
sons of Jacob were
twelve:
The sons of
Leah;
1)Reuben, Jacob's firstborn, and
2)Simeon, and
3)Levi, and
Judah, and
4)Issachar, and
5)Zebulun" Genesis 35:22
The Pharisees knew exactly who the Rich man was. There are not five literal brothers.
Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Who has Moses and the Prophets? The Jews.
Who doesn't have Moses and the Prophets? Lazarus the Gentile.
And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Now do you see my friend?
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:19
Who rose from the Dead? Yeshua our Lord and the Savior off all mankind!
(Note: I take no credit for the interpretation of this parable. This was revealed to me by much better studied men)
Again, there is no Resurrection of Damnation.
No they are not my friend. Paul says:
"Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble" 1 Corinthians 3:12
He makes no distinction of persons, and in the end he says:
"If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but
he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." 1 Corinthians 3:15
This is one man with both combustible material and non combustible material. The fire rids him of the combustible, and refines the non combustible.
However, if you wish to believe that this is about believers and unbelievers, then why does it say "
but he himself shall be saved"?
What is more logical? That the men who were there had it right, or that 300 to now 2000 years later, we have a better understanding of half of the things the Ancients experienced?
Well, I assure you my friend, I believe
Yeshua came in the
flesh.
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and
now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son
of God: and they that hear shall live.
For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
And hath given him authority to execute judgment also,
because he is the
Son of man." John 5:25
Thank you so much for bringing this up. I was hoping I would get to discuss this with you. You mentioned the manifestation of the sons of God. I'll let Paul explain this because he is a much better writer than I. But first, remember the Scriptures cannot be broken:
"Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities;
ALL is
VANITY." Ecclesiastes 1:2
"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time
are not worthy
to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
For the
earnest expectation of the
creature waiteth for the
manifestation of the sons of God.
For the
creature was made subject to
VANITY,
not willingly, but by
reason of him who hath subjected
the same in
hope,
Because the
creature itself
also shall be
delivered from the
bondage of corruption into the
glorious liberty of the
children of God.
For we know that the
whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together
until now.
And not
only they, but
ourselves also, which have the
firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the
adoption,
to wit, the redemption of our body." Romans 8:18
Why does the creation "wait" for our manifestation? So we can throw them into a Lake of Fire where they will be tormented forever and ever?
What creature shall "
also" be delivered from the bondage of corruption?
Why does the "whole creation" groan and travail "until now"?
And why at the end, does Paul say "not
only, but
we also"?
All is Vanity. Religion is always trying to put meaning to our lives, but the simple fact is, All is Vanity. Thus says the Scriptures.
I've already addressed 1 Corinthians 3 above. Also, why are you talking about "quality of works"? You say that the quality of our works matter, but then staunchly oppose anyone preaching works. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I would sincerely like you to explain this to me.
First, I have to disagree that Yeshua's eyes are what put us through this fiery trial.1 Corinthians 3 speaks of a
Day. The same Day that all the prophets spike about.
"Because he hath appointed a
day, in the which he will
judge the world in righteousness by
that man whom he hath ordained;
whereof he hath given assurance unto
all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead." Acts 17:31
Other than that, I absolutely agree that we go through the Fire now:
"And if thy foot offend thee,
cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the
fire that never shall be quenched:
Where their worm dieth not, and the
fire is not quenched.
And if thine eye offend thee,
pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell
fire:
Where their worm dieth not, and the
fire is not quenched.
For EVERY ONE shall be salted with FIRE" Mark 9:45
Do you really believe that God is
able do
ALL THINGS?
"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is
able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
"The Lord is not slack concerning his
promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward,
not willing that
any should
perish, but that
all should come to
repentance." 2 Peter 3:9
"Remember the former things of old: for I
am God, and
there is none else;
I am God, and
there is none like me,
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times
the things that are not
yet done, saying,
My counsel shall stand, and
I WILL do all my pleasure:
Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken
it,
I WILL also bring it to pass; I have purposed
it,
I WILL also do it." Isaiah 46:9
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who WILL have ALL men to be SAVED, and
to come unto the KNOWLEDGE of the truth." 1 Timothy 2:3
"And this
IS life eternal, that they might
KNOW thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3
Thank you so much my friend. You have truly been a blessing to me. God bless you my brother.