Why do people believe in a Rapture?

Matthew Twentyfour said:

What does this mean you said here?

The two witnesses will preach 42 months DURING the Tribulation.The Day of the Lord come IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation of those days.
Matthew 24:29-31​

You're not understanding me. I'm telling you there's more than one Day of the Lord. If you think they come on the Day of the Lord after the tribulation, it means they will testify for 42 months after the tribulation. After the tribulation is the beginning of Christ's millennium reign. This is two different event. Is this that hard to understand?

Bottom line is don't combine comments about the two witnesses with the second Day of the Lord happening after the tribulation. There's a separation of 7 years and a misleading error on your part.

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Let me simplify:
The Tribulation last 7 years .
The Tribulation is NOT The Day of the Lord.
The two witnesses will preach 42 months DURING the Tribulation.
The Day of the Lord coming as a thief mentioned in Revelation 16:15 come IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation of those days as mentioned in Matthew 24:29-31

BABerean2 said:

Revelation 12:12 says the trib. is Satan's wrath.

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It means the devil is [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]sed. He doesn't have that type of power to judge and destroy the world as God can. Otherwise the devil would have destroyed the earth along time ago.

• The Bible in Basic English
  Chapter Parallel
  Revelation 12:12 (BBE) Be glad then, O heavens, and you who are in them. But there is trouble for the earth and the sea: because the Evil One has come down to you, being very angry, having the knowledge that he has but a short time.
  
  
• Common English Bible
  Chapter Parallel
  Revelation 12:12 (CEB) Therefore, rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them. But oh! The horror for the earth and sea! The devil has come down to you with great rage, for he knows that he only has a short time."
  
  
• Common English Bible w/ Apocrypha
  Chapter Parallel
  Revelation 12:12 (CEBA) Therefore, rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them. But oh! The horror for the earth and sea! The devil has come down to you with great rage, for he knows that he only has a short time."
  
  
• The Complete Jewish Bible
  Chapter Parallel
  Revelation 12:12 (CJB) "Therefore, rejoice, heaven and you who live there! But woe to you, land and sea, for the Adversary has come down to you, and he is very angry, because he knows that his time is short!"
  
  
• Holman Christian Standard Bible
  Chapter Parallel
  Revelation 12:12 (CSB) Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the earth and the sea, for the Devil has come down to you with great fury, because he knows he has a short time.
  
  
• The Darby Translation
  Chapter Parallel
  Revelation 12:12 (DBY) Therefore be full of delight, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the earth and to the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great rage, knowing he has a short time.
  
  
• Good News Translation
  Chapter Parallel
  Revelation 12:12 (GNT) And so be glad, you heavens, and all you that live there! But how terrible for the earth and the sea! For the Devil has come down to you, and he is filled with rage, because he knows that he has only a little time left."
  
  
• Good News Translation w/ Apocrypha
  Chapter Parallel
  Revelation 12:12 (GNTA) And so be glad, you heavens, and all you that live there! But how terrible for the earth and the sea! For the Devil has come down to you, and he is filled with rage, because he knows that he has only a little time left."
  
  
• GOD'S WORD Translation
  Chapter Parallel
  Revelation 12:12 (GW) Be glad for this reason, heavens and those who live in them. How horrible it is for the earth and the sea because the Devil has come down to them with fierce anger, knowing that he has little time left."
  
  
• Lexham English Bible
  Chapter Parallel
  Revelation 12:12 (LEB) Because of this, rejoice, you heavens, and those who live in them! Woe [to] the earth and [to] the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great anger, [because he] knows that he has little time!"
  
  
• The Message Bible
  Chapter Parallel
  Revelation 12:12 (MSG) So rejoice, O Heavens, and all who live there, but doom to earth and sea, For the Devil's come down on you with both feet; he's had a great fall; He's wild and raging with anger; he hasn't much time and he knows it.
  
  
• New Century Version
  Chapter Parallel
  Revelation 12:12 (NCV) So rejoice, you heavens and all who live there! But it will be terrible for the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you! He is filled with anger, because he knows he does not have much time."
  
  
• New International Reader's Version
  Chapter Parallel
  Revelation 12:12 (NIRV) So be joyful, you heavens! Be glad, all you who live there! But how terrible it will be for the earth and the sea! The devil has come down to you. He is very angry. He knows his time is short."
  
  
• New International Version
  Chapter Parallel
  Revelation 12:12 (NIV) Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short."
  
  
• New Living Translation
  Chapter Parallel
  Revelation 12:12 (NLT) Therefore, rejoice, O heavens! And you who live in the heavens, rejoice! But terror will come on the earth and the sea, for the devil has come down to you in great anger, knowing that he has little time.”
  
  
• Orthodox Jewish Bible
  Chapter Parallel
  Hisgalus 12:12 (OJB) Therefore be glad, Shomayim, and the ones whose mishkan is there, but oy to ha’aretz (the earth) and to hayam (the sea), because Hasatan came down to you, having great ka’as (anger), having da’as that his time is short.
  
  
• Today's New International Version
  Chapter Parallel
  Revelation 12:12 (TNIV) Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short."
  
  
• Weymouth New Testament
  Chapter Parallel
  Revelation 12:12 (WNT) For this reason be glad, O Heaven, and you who live in Heaven! Alas for the earth and the sea! For the Devil has come down to you; full of fierce anger, because he knows that his appointed time is short."

Riberra said:

Let me simplify:
The Tribulation last 7 years .
The Tribulation is NOT The Day of the Lord.
The two witnesses will preach 42 months DURING the Tribulation.
The Day of the Lord coming as a thief mentioned in Revelation 16:15 come IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation of those days as mentioned in Matthew 24:29-31

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See Riberra, it would of made a lot more sense had you written it this way instead of the misleading mumble-jumble you wrote below.

Riberra said:

The two witnesses will preach 42 months DURING the Tribulation.The Day of the Lord come IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation of those days.
Matthew 24:29-31

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

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BABerean2 said:

Was Stephen under God's wrath when he was stoned to death?

Shortly after Paul wrote of the Blessed Hope and the Glorious Appearing while he was in a prison cell, the Romans removed Paul's head.
Was God taking out His wrath on Paul?

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BABerean, Stephen lived 2000 years ago. The last time God's wrath occurred was during the flood in the time of Noah. That was 3000 years before Stephen's time. The next wrath of God will come soon.

Basically you missed God's wrath prior to Stephen's birth by 3000 years and again missed God's wrath by about 2000 years after Stephen's death.

Paul was beheaded by the Romans. Is God a Roman?

BAB, I'm not picking on you but you come up with some of the silliest arguments this side of the Mississippi. At least you're cracking me up. Now if I die laughing, do you think this is also God's wrath? LOL

Matthew Twentyfour said:

BABerean, Stephen lived 2000 years ago. The last time God's wrath occurred was during the flood in the time of Noah. That was 3000 years before Stephen's time. The next wrath of God will come soon.

Basically you missed God's wrath prior to Stephen's birth by 3000 years and again missed God's wrath by about 2000 years after Stephen's death.

Paul was beheaded by the Romans. Is God a Roman?

BAB, I'm not picking on you but you come up with some of the silliest arguments this side of the Mississippi. At least you're cracking me up. Now if I die laughing, do you think this is also God's wrath? LOL

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You are correct the first wrath was by water during the days of Noah and the last will be by fire where everything will be consumed.

In fact Isaiah 14 says it poetically:

Isaiah 14:7-8
The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying,
Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

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The earth is at rest because everyone is dead.
The trees sing because no one is alive to come and cut them down anymore, not that there will be trees left either.
We have an earth emptied of all life by one act of God that ends Genesis. The flood was a control alt delete to restart Genesis and the last soon to come will be a power shutdown, the end.

Matthew Twentyfour said:

BABerean, Stephen lived 2000 years ago. The last time God's wrath occurred was during the flood in the time of Noah. That was 3000 years before Stephen's time. The next wrath of God will come soon.

Basically you missed God's wrath prior to Stephen's birth by 3000 years and again missed God's wrath by about 2000 years after Stephen's death.

Paul was beheaded by the Romans. Is God a Roman?

BAB, I'm not picking on you but you come up with some of the silliest arguments this side of the Mississippi. At least you're cracking me up. Now if I die laughing, do you think this is also God's wrath? LOL

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No. I would say the following are God's wrath.


2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

.................................................

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2Pe 3:11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

I could be wrong, but I do not think anyone will die laughing when the above occurs, on the day of the Lord.

Straightshot said:

"Whete is there a seven year span of time between the Rapture and Resurrection in this verse ?

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:1

The raptures ones will be caught up TOGETHER with the resurrected ones.

The Ressurrection is after the tribulation at Jesus Second Coming.

The resurrection is before the rapture.

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

The dead in Christ rise first!

Then we who are alive and remain... Are caught up TOGETHER with them.

Checkmate."



Your problem in your game is that you have no pieces to play with

What you call "the rapture" is in fact a resurrection of the dead in Christ and a transformation of those living at the moment .... and this will take place just before the 70th week decreed for Israel begins [same as the tribulation] .... not at the end of the period

Only the Lord's two prophets and the martyrs of the tribulation will be raised at the tribulation's ending

It appears that you have been taught all of the wrong things related to exegetical study as I read your posting

You should study the Lord's Word yourself with His guidance for correct rendering .... this is possible

Do not hand off your football to another for scoring

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Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:1

The resurrected ones and the raptures ones are caught up together in the clouds when the Lord returns.


Now it's up to you to prove from the scriptures that the resurrection of the dead is before the tribulation.

Furthermore you must also show the scriptures whereby the "last day" is before the tribulation.

JLB

It is up to you .... not me .... I already know the truth about the matter

Here is an error in your "last day" thinking

You think that the "last day" is just one 24 hour day

None of the scriptures that you use related to the raising tell "on" the last day

.... if so then you could have a case for what you say you believe

All of them very clearly state either "in" the last day, or "at" the last day

The "last day" is a time stamp for the Day of the Lord .... a period of time in which many events will occur

.... even more that just one raising scheduled

So it is not for me to prove anything for you

There are a number of scriptures that will confirm .... and I am not going to waste time posting them .... you should already know

Find them for yourself .... the Day of, or a Day of, or in that Day always designates a period of time noted in the writings of the prophets .... many times .... even some fulfilled in the past which can be substantiated by recorded history showing many events over time

You either know this and are being deceptive with your talk, or you have been deceived by others

BABerean2 said:

No. I would say the following are God's wrath.


2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

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John 5:22 NKJV For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son,

You even wrote down Lord Jesus in the quote.

It must be noted that many today of professing Christianity have been taught to deny the Lord's intent on the matter of this thread

Not surprising .... another indicator of the times we live in .... the alarm bells are going off

He has said one must one ready at all times for a reason .... one cannot know the moment of His break in

If a man ends up in His tribulation .... the man will know that he has missed the turn .... no doubt

Straightshot said:

It is up to you .... not me .... I already know the truth about the matter

Here is an error in your "last day" thinking

You think that the "last day" is just one 24 hour day

None of the scriptures that you use related to the raising tell "on" the last day

.... if so then you could have a case for what you say you believe

All of them very clearly state either "in" the last day, or "at" the last day

The "last day" is a time stamp for the Day of the Lord .... a period of time in which many events will occur

.... even more that just one raising scheduled

So it is not for me to prove anything for you

There are a number of scriptures that will confirm .... and I am not going to waste time posting them .... you should already know

Find them for yourself .... the Day of, or a Day of, or in that Day always designates a period of time noted in the writings of the prophets .... many times .... even some fulfilled in the past which can be substantiated by recorded history showing many events over time

You either know this and are being deceptive with your talk, or you have been deceived by others

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More of your opinion denying what the scriptures teach.

17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:17


This scripture teaches yo the Rapture and Resurrection are one event, whereby all who are His will be caught together with Him.

The resurrection takes place a moment BEFORE the rapture and occurs at the second coming of Christ.

This event is called the Day of the Lord.


JLB

The Lord's "harpazo" action is one event for both the dead in Christ and those living at the moment .... it is the timing that you miss

Again .... the coming "Day" of the Lord will include many events over time and includes all of thew following: 'harpazo; tribulation; millennial kingdom; judgment of the dead; eternal kingdom ..... all will be a part of His "Day"

Straightshot said:

Again .... the coming "Day" of the Lord will include many events over time and includes all of thew following: 'harpazo; tribulation; millennial kingdom; judgment of the dead; eternal kingdom ..... all will be a part of His "Day"

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Dispensational Futurists claim to use a "literal" interpretation of God's Word.

And now a "day" = 1,007 years.

The One fold and One Shepherd become 2.

The eternal purpose of God before the foundation of the world becomes 2.

They claim the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven are different, when scripture reveals they are the same.

The Scofield Reference Bible claims there is more than one Gospel.

They claim there will be multiple resurrections of the dead, when Jesus, Paul, and John clearly state there will be one simultaneous resurrection of the righteous and the wicked.

They Claim Jesus is coming back to earth 2 times.

They divide the scripture of the New Testament into that written for the Jews and that written for the Church.

They insert a "gap" into Daniel chapter 9, not mentioned by the angel Gabriel.

And on and on it goes with their "literal" interpretation of scripture.

There are so many deviations from scripture that it is difficult to keep track of all of them.

And the rest of us are supposed to accept these claims, because the Dispensationalists declare it to be the truth in their "literal" interpretation of scripture.

Then often times those of us who do not agree with this "literal" interpretation are labeled as those aiding the enemy.

.

We all know what you believe BAB .... so what is new?

Nothing under the sun

.... the day for a year theology is hobgoblin and is never used in scripture to measure any time value

You just keep tripping over your own feet

Chicken Little said:

why do you call it accusation? .. I said I really liked your post..

I only gave you advice to pray about ... that tiniest nation on the planet is not the only objects of his affections.
and that postage stamp of dirt is not his only focus or his only goal.... but it is mankind's focus ,could that be the plan.

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"Postage stamp of dirt?" Wow, that was God's chosen nation that He is not finished with. Don't you realize that most of history in the Bible is centered around Jerusalem and "those who bless the Jews will be blessed and those who curse them will be cursed?" The final stage is being set for WWIII AND YOU CALL THAT TINY?
The Iranian Deal, our $18.5 trillion debt with $200 trillion in unfunded liabilities, the whole Middle East unraveling with ISIS on the move is all part of the end time scenario. It's not tiny.
The world just suffered a recession and this country is about ready to see a collapse, especially if that postage stamp gets stomped.
Your perception is narrow and you almost sound anti-Semetic. Did you vote for Obama? If so, that explains everything. You don't get the whole picture. Most of Revelation concerns putting the Jews through the fire to refine them and save them (see Romans 11). Also, if you were a Christian in Yemen, Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Sudan or any other Islamic nation, you would be persecuted more than a "tiny bit". Millions of them are fleeing and getting their heads chopped off if they don't convert. Islam is the Beast unbeknownst to many who are waiting for some revived Roman empire of the EU. Let me tell you something, the EU is weak and not united. Germany is sorry they even got into it! Now they have to carry the financial burdens of several countries going down. But are they in any way persecuting Christians and chopping their heads off? Is Obama doing that? No, the major evil in the world now is Islam.

Here's a clue to the signature of the Beast who persecutes Jews and Christians in the end times.
"... Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had no received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands..."Rev.20:4
These are the ones who came out of the Great Tribulation. Iron mixed with clay is symbolic for a strong country mixed with a weaker movement, yet both having the same purpose. Iran represents iron and ISIS represents the clay. The Shiites and the Sunnis don't mix well but they are both Islamic and enemies of Jews and Christians.
Quotes from the Quran:
Violence is commanded: "Fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them and seize them, beleaguer them and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war". Sura 9:5
If Islam is resisted: "Their punishment ... execution, crucifixion or cutting off of hands and feet from the opposite sides or exile from the land". Sura 9:73
"Believers, take neither Jews or Christians to be your friends; they are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number and Allah does not guide wrongdoers". Sura 5:51-74

me vote for Obama! I think I will stop talking to you .. I love Israel always have but it is just a city state of something way way bigger , and bigger than bigger .. I also do all my posting in the Messianic section. because if I am anything( kind of ) it is closest to that.. I always have loved and blessed Israel since I first became a christian 40++ years ago in a non christian household ( not jewish either ) .. since 197?)2) and I was praying for them way before it was cool to pray for them .. and I will support Abraham and Jesus and his real body where ever I find it and always have since I seen his heart at 12...

Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

Gen 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

Gen 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.



Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

.

tanzel said:

What do rapture means. Cause its not written in the Bible?

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Oh I dunno. /shrugs.

I'll just say the word isn't in the bible but the teachings and the doctrine are there. And it's a promotion.

Here's an unbiased copied and paste description of the rapture from wiki.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture

Straightshot said:

The Lord's "harpazo" action is one event for both the dead in Christ and those living at the moment .... it is the timing that you miss

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The resurrection of the dead in Christ is at His Coming.

His Coming is after the tribulation.

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matt 24:29-30


Looks like your the one who has misinterpreted the timing.

The Day of the Lord is when the Lord Jesus comes for His saints on earth, and with His saints from heaven.


JLB