Why do people believe in a Rapture?
- Thread starter Bro.T
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I'm trying to understand why people ask question and think to answer the question themselves.
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It doesn't matter if you believe the rapture will happen or not. If it does, and you are in Him, you will be raptured.
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"I'm still waiting for some Biblical proof. Show me the rapture!'
Do not wait for the proof .... just make certain that you are ready .... the Lord tells you why [Matthew 25:1-13; Revelation 3:10; 3:9-21]
.... and when the Lord does calls, you will know without a doubt
I can give you many verses all taken together for the proof, but you should search for yourself
But I will answer your OP question .... because He has said so
Do not wait for the proof .... just make certain that you are ready .... the Lord tells you why [Matthew 25:1-13; Revelation 3:10; 3:9-21]
.... and when the Lord does calls, you will know without a doubt
I can give you many verses all taken together for the proof, but you should search for yourself
But I will answer your OP question .... because He has said so
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yeshuasavedme
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It's all in the Living Oracles, and in Enoch the prophet, the seventh from Adam, who wrote of the pre-tribulation rapture in
Enoch chapter 50: http://www.summascriptura.com/html/Enoch_1_RHC.htm#50
We Shall Be Changed
50 And in those days a change shall take place for the holy and elect,
And the light of days shall abide upon them,
And glory and honour shall turn to the holy,
2On the day of affliction on which evil shall have been treasured up against the sinners.
And the righteous shall be victorious in the name of the Lord of Spirits:
And He will cause the others to witness this
That they may repent
And forgo the works of their hands.
3They shall have no honour through the name of the Lord of Spirits,
Yet through His name shall they be saved,
And the Lord of Spirits will have compassion on them,
For His compassion is great.
4And He is righteous also in His judgement,
And in the presence of His glory unrighteousness also shall not maintain itself:
At His judgement the unrepentant shall perish before Him.
5And from henceforth I will have no mercy on them, saith the Lord of Spirits.
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...day-and-israels-time-for-restoration.7879917/
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fatherjimparker
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1Th 4:16-17 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord
Latin Vulgate: v. 17 deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus
So the English word "rapture" comes from the Latin word "rapiemur" and refers to the teaching that those believers who are alive when Jesus returns will be "caught up" and will "meet the Lord in the air" as he returns to judge the living and the dead and to reign in the fulfilled kingdom of God.
(That's not quite the same as John Darby's secret snatching away of the church which is a relatively modern fabrication that has Jesus coming two more times.)
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Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
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Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
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"those believers who are alive when Jesus returns will be "caught up" and will "meet the Lord in the air" as he returns to judge the living and the dead and to reign in the fulfilled kingdom of God."
They will, together with the dead in Christ, but before the tribulation begins
Here they are in the state of immortality just before and during the tribulation [Revelation 3:10; 4:4; 5:1-10; 7:9-17; 11:1; 13:6; 17:14; 18:4; 19:14; 20:4] [those on "thrones" - symbol of the Lord's government]
Revelation is a series of repeating visions by subject with each giving more details
So one can see the Lord's pre-tribulation ecclesia as the tribulation progresses
Argument over this subject goes on and on
Here is why
Satan hates the idea of human immortality and wants to mislead those living at the time into thinking that the event will not take place before he is cast to the earth .... in this way he thinks he will be able to deceive them and kill them during the tribulation, thereby preventing their salvation
.... many have and will be snookered by his deceptive ruse
The Lord's "harpazo" action will take place before and not at the end of the tribulation period .... if all believers were to be made immortal at the end of the same, there would be no mortal believers left to inhabit the Lord's millennial kingdom upon the earth .... but there will be
They will, together with the dead in Christ, but before the tribulation begins
Here they are in the state of immortality just before and during the tribulation [Revelation 3:10; 4:4; 5:1-10; 7:9-17; 11:1; 13:6; 17:14; 18:4; 19:14; 20:4] [those on "thrones" - symbol of the Lord's government]
Revelation is a series of repeating visions by subject with each giving more details
So one can see the Lord's pre-tribulation ecclesia as the tribulation progresses
Argument over this subject goes on and on
Here is why
Satan hates the idea of human immortality and wants to mislead those living at the time into thinking that the event will not take place before he is cast to the earth .... in this way he thinks he will be able to deceive them and kill them during the tribulation, thereby preventing their salvation
.... many have and will be snookered by his deceptive ruse
The Lord's "harpazo" action will take place before and not at the end of the tribulation period .... if all believers were to be made immortal at the end of the same, there would be no mortal believers left to inhabit the Lord's millennial kingdom upon the earth .... but there will be
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They were resurrected from death and then taken up visibly into a cloud.
It cannot be a different topic.
If this is not a rapture event, then there is no such thing.
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fatherjimparker
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"Rapture event"? Where did you get that? Did you make that up?
The "Rapture" teaching is about Christ coming secretly and snatching the Church out of the world before the "great tribulation." (or in the middle of it or just after)
There are no "rapture events" in the "Rapture" doctrine.
A quick look in Wikipedia could bring you up to speed and enable you to make a rational comment once you found out what the teaching about the Rapture actually is.
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"That's an entirely different topic."
True, the Lord's two prophets will serve the Lord during the second 1260 days of the tribulation [Revelation 11]
The post tribulation thinker claims that these are a corporate body of believers who will be caught up at the end of the tribulation period .... thus the Lord's "harpazo" action of [Corinthians 15:20-23; 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:12-18]
Not true, there are only two prophets, and they are not today's corporate "church" ... there would not be enough room in Jerusalem to hold the numbers of the great multitude of Revelation 4:5; 5:1-10; 7:9-17]
Post tribulation theology discounts the Lord's pre-tribulation call for His true ecclesia and also His coming judgment period of the tribulation which will last for many days, not just on one day .... there by placing the Lord's call to immortalize His true ecclesia and His second coming at the end of the tribulation
And some of this persuasion also discount the Lord's intent to rule the earth during His coming millennial kingdom upon the earth before His eternal kingdom begins
Both ideas are seriously flawed and cannot be supported by selective piece meal scripture
True, the Lord's two prophets will serve the Lord during the second 1260 days of the tribulation [Revelation 11]
The post tribulation thinker claims that these are a corporate body of believers who will be caught up at the end of the tribulation period .... thus the Lord's "harpazo" action of [Corinthians 15:20-23; 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:12-18]
Not true, there are only two prophets, and they are not today's corporate "church" ... there would not be enough room in Jerusalem to hold the numbers of the great multitude of Revelation 4:5; 5:1-10; 7:9-17]
Post tribulation theology discounts the Lord's pre-tribulation call for His true ecclesia and also His coming judgment period of the tribulation which will last for many days, not just on one day .... there by placing the Lord's call to immortalize His true ecclesia and His second coming at the end of the tribulation
And some of this persuasion also discount the Lord's intent to rule the earth during His coming millennial kingdom upon the earth before His eternal kingdom begins
Both ideas are seriously flawed and cannot be supported by selective piece meal scripture
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yeshuasavedme
Senior Veteran
The "rapture" as the gathering together unto the LORD of His entire congregation to stand before His temple doors in heaven/the "air", to hear His instructions and He tells them......[read my thread where it is documented from Scripture]. The "rapture is taught in the Living Oracles, which are the schoolmaster to bring us to the end goal of Christ.
Before the Living Oracles of the Person and work of the LORD Jesus Christ were given to God's namesake people of the New Man name [Israel], to rehearse, through Moses, until they are all fulfilled, Enoch had long before written of the great tribulation of the last days before the Anointed One/Messiah/Son of Man sets up His kingdom of Peace on earth, and the rapture =the transforming to the glory bodies- of the living saints, in Enoch chapter 50. It is no secret rapture, never.
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...-for-restoration.7879917/page-2#post-67531485
Enoch chapter 50, 51:
We Shall Be Changed
50 And in those days a change shall take place for the holy and elect,
And the light of days shall abide upon them,
And glory and honour shall turn to the holy,
2On the day of affliction on which evil shall have been treasured up against the sinners.
And the righteous shall be victorious in the name of the Lord of Spirits:
And He will cause the others to witness this
That they may repent
And forgo the works of their hands.
3They shall have no honour through the name of the Lord of Spirits,
Yet through His name shall they be saved,
And the Lord of Spirits will have compassion on them,
For His compassion is great.
4And He is righteous also in His judgement,
And in the presence of His glory unrighteousness also shall not maintain itself:
At His judgement the unrepentant shall perish before Him.
5And from henceforth I will have no mercy on them, saith the Lord of Spirits.
{Top}
Sheol Will Give Back the Dead
51 And in those days shall the earth also give back that which has been entrusted to it,
And Sheol also shall give back that which it has received,
And hell shall give back that which it owes.
Salvation is Drawing Nigh
2And he shall choose the righteous and holy from among them:
For the day has drawn nigh that they should be saved.
The Elect One Sits On God's Throne
3And the Elect One shall in those days sit on My throne,
And his mouth shall pour forth all the secrets of wisdom and counsel:
For the Lord of Spirits hath given them to him and hath glorified him.
4And in those days shall the mountains leap like rams,
And the hills also shall skip like lambs satisfied with milk,
And the faces of all the angels in heaven shall be lighted up with joy.
5For in those days the Elect One shall arise,
And the earth shall rejoice,
And the righteous shall dwell upon it,
And the elect shall walk thereon.
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There is nothing "Secret" about it.
The "Secret Rapture" came from the so-called vision of a teenage girl in 1830.
Based on thousands of pages of sermons and commentary, no American pastor taught the "Secret Rapture" at the time of the American Revolution.
They believed Christians would be resurrected and gathered at the beginning of Christ's Second Coming.
John Nelson Darby brought the "Secret Rapture" to America around the time of the Civil War. Since that time, it has spread like a virus through the evangelical Church.
Many Christians today have never heard anything different.
Wikipedia is not always the best source of information.
Check the sources below to see the origin of the "Secret Rapture".
Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf
Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf
PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) read pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418
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There is nothing "Secret" about it.
This is true, the Lord's intent to call His true ecclesia before the tribulation is no secret .... He has revealed this truth in His Word .... and long before this Darby guy or anyone else for that matter has given interpretation
The entire rant about Darby is a hoax concocted by men for hidden reasons .... telling a story in the open, but for ulterior motive under the cover
This is true, the Lord's intent to call His true ecclesia before the tribulation is no secret .... He has revealed this truth in His Word .... and long before this Darby guy or anyone else for that matter has given interpretation
The entire rant about Darby is a hoax concocted by men for hidden reasons .... telling a story in the open, but for ulterior motive under the cover
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The pretrib rapture must have been a "Secret" to Jesus and to angels of god and to the Apostle Paul and other New Testament writers.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Throughout the NT the word "elect" refers to Christians.
...............................................................
Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
................................................................
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
................................................................
Heb_9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
1Pe_5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
1Jn_2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. He will appear at his Gk. "Parousia", which is His future Second Coming.
1Jn_3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
The pretrib version is a fairy-tale meant to make the 2 Peoples/ 2 Purposes/ 2 Kingdoms/ 2 or more Gospels/ 2 Ways of salvation (Grace and later Law)/ Scripture "Rightly Divided" into 2 Parts/ 2 Second Comings doctrine work.
It is not found in God's Word.
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"Throughout the NT the word "elect" refers to Christians."
Not in Matthew 24 .... this passage of scripture is all about Israel at the time of the end [location and actions] .... the elect in this case are the believing of Israel [not the church] who will specifically experience the time of Jacob's trouble, and they will be gathered as mortals to enter and populate the Lord's millennial kingdom just after the days of the tribulation Isaiah 11; 27:12-13; Matthew 24:29-31]
The "great" trumpet is for the gathering of believing Israel who will survive the tribulation .... this trumpet will sound after the days of the tribulation ... after the 7th judgment trumpet of Revelations unfolding
Not in Matthew 24 .... this passage of scripture is all about Israel at the time of the end [location and actions] .... the elect in this case are the believing of Israel [not the church] who will specifically experience the time of Jacob's trouble, and they will be gathered as mortals to enter and populate the Lord's millennial kingdom just after the days of the tribulation Isaiah 11; 27:12-13; Matthew 24:29-31]
The "great" trumpet is for the gathering of believing Israel who will survive the tribulation .... this trumpet will sound after the days of the tribulation ... after the 7th judgment trumpet of Revelations unfolding
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Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (Matthew 24: 29-30)
So, after the tribulation period the sun will be darkened, the stars will fall and the moon will not give her light. We have some note worthy information here. Why? First of all, several so-called churches teach that Jesus (or in this case the Son of Man) will arrive before the great tribulation and rapture His servants off the earth. If there were to be a rapture, it would have been mentioned in the above set of verses. These verses clearly show the sign (of the Son of Man) appearing after the tribulation. Correct?
So, after the tribulation period the sun will be darkened, the stars will fall and the moon will not give her light. We have some note worthy information here. Why? First of all, several so-called churches teach that Jesus (or in this case the Son of Man) will arrive before the great tribulation and rapture His servants off the earth. If there were to be a rapture, it would have been mentioned in the above set of verses. These verses clearly show the sign (of the Son of Man) appearing after the tribulation. Correct?
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Thats not a rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17. Meeting the Lord in the air is the first resurrection. Some people will be raise from the ground, some still alive. Can't be no rapture if a person was dead then raise to meet the Lord in the air. Remember Jesus coming after the great tribulation with his saints and all his angels.
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