Ex-Christians: Why did you leave?

Aldebaran said:

Sounds straightforward enough to me.

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I thought what I said sounded pretty straightforward, too. Apparently not.

All I'm saying is that you should recognize that to a non-Christian, there's nothing about Christianity that makes it stand out as the one true religion. It's just one among many that say they're obviously the best and that we should join them, which I think is what Ananda was getting at.

It only seems obvious if you're already of the opinion that it's the truth. A Bible verse doesn't mean anything unless you already value it as a source of truth.

Aldebaran said:

But it's not just about bible verses. If the Holy Spirit calls to you when you hear about Jesus Christ, then you simply know what the truth is. Just as Jesus said that His sheep hear His voice.

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Exactly. You "know" this if you're a Christian, just as members of other religions who have heard a different call also say that they know what the truth is.

And I'm not arguing with you on that point or trying to discredit your experience. Your faith journey is your own. I'm just saying that no matter how obvious it is to you, not everyone has that experience, and there's no reason to expect us to.

1 John 2:19
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

Ironically, after leaving "orthodox" Christianity and becoming Baha'i, I found an intimacy with Jesus that I'd never known before

ananda said:

I left orthodox Christianity because:

1. I could not reconcile many of the traditional orthodox beliefs with the Greek of the NT;
2. I could not reconcile the church(es') hierarchy-based structure with what Jesus allegedly taught (e.g. Mt 23:7-10);
3. I discovered that the birth-death-resurrection story of Jesus was not unique in the history of religions;
4. I could no longer accept Biblical claims on blind faith without personal proof and experience;
5. I could not reconcile many of the internal inconsistencies and contradictions in the common Protestant Bible;
6. I could not choose between any specific Bible because multiple groups claimed various canons;
etc.

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So, your spirit was never joined to the Lord's Spirit?
1Co_6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

You never experienced that? Did you ever experience the risen Christ indwelling you?

Then, how can you leave something you never had?

It's about Jesus Christ, not "Christianity". Did you reject Jesus Christ?

outsidethecamp said:

So, your spirit was never joined to the Lord's Spirit?
1Co_6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

You never experienced that? Did you ever experience the risen Christ indwelling you?

Then, how can you leave something you never had?

It's about Jesus Christ, not "Christianity". Did you reject Jesus Christ?

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Can you please define what it means to "experience the risen Christ indwelling" me?

I stated that I left orthodox Christianity ... I did not leave Jesus. I still consider myself to be a gnostic Christian

ananda said:

Can you please define what it means to "experience the risen Christ indwelling" me?

I stated that I left orthodox Christianity ... I did not leave Jesus. I still consider myself to be a gnostic Christian

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Thanks, you answered my question.

Aldebaran said:

Isaiah 45:5
"I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God."

Sounds straightforward enough to me.

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Perhaps it is straightforward if you believe the Bible, but if you believe the Bible you're probably already a Christian.

I seem to recall many sections of the Bible being more henotheistic than monotheistic in their wording. In a nutshell, a henotheist believes that multiple deities exist but worships only one.

[VERSE=Exodus 22:28,ASV]Thou shalt not revile God, nor curse a ruler of thy people.[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Genesis 1:26,ASV]And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Genesis 3:22,ASV]And Jehovah God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever-[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Genesis 11:7,ASV]Come, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Deuteronomy 10:17,ASV]For Jehovah your God, he is God of gods, and Lord of lords, the great God, the mighty, and the terrible, who regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward.[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Psalms 97:7,ASV]Let all them be put to shame that serve graven images, That boast themselves of idols: Worship him, all ye gods.[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Psalms 136:2,ASV]Oh give thanks unto the God of gods; For his lovingkindness [endureth] for ever.[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Psalms 86:8,ASV]There is none like unto thee among the gods, O Lord; Neither [are there any works] like unto thy works.[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Exodus 15:11,ASV]Who is like unto thee, O Jehovah, among the gods? Who is like thee, glorious in holiness, Fearful in praises, doing wonders?[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Exodus 18:11,ASV]Now I know that Jehovah is greater than all gods; yea, in the thing wherein they dealt proudly against them.[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Exodus 20:3-5,ASV][VERSENUM]3[/VERSENUM] Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

[VERSENUM]4[/VERSENUM] Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any likeness [of any thing] that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

[VERSENUM]5[/VERSENUM] Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them, for I Jehovah thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation of them that hate me,[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Deuteronomy 3:24,ASV]O Lord Jehovah, thou hast begun to show thy servant thy greatness, and thy strong hand: for what god is there in heaven or in earth, that can do according to thy works, and according to thy mighty acts?[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Psalms 135:5,ASV]For I know that Jehovah is great, And that our Lord is above all gods.[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Exodus 12:12,ASV]For I will go through the land of Egypt in that night, and will smite all the first-born in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgments: I am Jehovah.[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Numbers 33:4,ASV]while the Egyptians were burying all their first-born, whom Jehovah had smitten among them: upon their gods also Jehovah executed judgments.[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Psalms 82:1,ASV]A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of God; He judgeth among the gods.[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Jeremiah 46:25,ASV]Jehovah of hosts, the God of Israel, saith: Behold, I will punish Amon of No, and Pharaoh, and Egypt, with her gods, and her kings; even Pharaoh, and them that trust in him:[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Zephaniah 2:11,ASV]Jehovah will be terrible unto them; for he will famish all the gods of the earth; and men shall worship him, every one from his place, even all the isles of the nations.[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Exodus 34:14,ASV]for thou shalt worship no other god: for Jehovah, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Deuteronomy 6:14-15,ASV][VERSENUM]14[/VERSENUM] Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the peoples that are round about you; [VERSENUM]15[/VERSENUM] for Jehovah thy God in the midst of thee is a jealous God; lest the anger of Jehovah thy God be kindled against thee, and he destroy thee from off the face of the earth.[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Deuteronomy 28:14,ASV]and shalt not turn aside from any of the words which I command you this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.[/VERSE]
[VERSE=1 Samuel 6:5,ASV]Wherefore ye shall make images of your tumors, and images of your mice that mar the land; and ye shall give glory unto the God of Israel: peradventure he will lighten his hand from off you, and from off your gods, and from off your land.[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Jeremiah 25:6,ASV]and go not after other gods to serve them, and to worship them, and provoke me not to anger with the work of your hands; and I will do you no hurt.[/VERSE]
[VERSE=1 Chronicles 16:25,ASV]For great is Jehovah, and greatly to be praised: He also is to be feared above all gods.[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Psalms 96:4,ASV]For great is Jehovah, and greatly to be praised: He is to be feared above all gods.[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Exodus 22:20,ASV]He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto Jehovah only, shall be utterly destroyed.[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Deuteronomy 5:7,ASV]Thou shalt have no other gods before me.[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Exodus 23:32,ASV]Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their gods.[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Jeremiah 1:16,ASV]And I will utter my judgments against them touching all their wickedness, in that they have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods, and worshipped the works of their own hands.[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Exodus 23:13,ASV]And in all things that I have said unto you take ye heed: and make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth.[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Joshua 24:14,ASV]Now therefore fear Jehovah, and serve him in sincerity and in truth; and put away the gods which your fathers served beyond the River, and in Egypt; and serve ye Jehovah.[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Judges 11:24,ASV]Wilt not thou possess that which Chemosh thy god giveth thee to possess? So whomsoever Jehovah our God hath dispossessed from before us, them will we possess.[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Joshua 24:2,ASV]And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith Jehovah, the God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt of old time beyond the River, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nahor: and they served other gods.[/VERSE]
[VERSE=1 Samuel 28:13,ASV]And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what seest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I see a god coming up out of the earth.[/VERSE]
[VERSE=Psalms 82:6,ASV]I said, Ye are gods, And all of you sons of the Most High.[/VERSE]
[VERSE=John 10:33-34,ASV][VERSENUM]33[/VERSENUM] The Jews answered him, For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

[VERSENUM]34[/VERSENUM] Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, ye are gods?[/VERSE]

As I stated in this thread: I was most devout during my teenage years, up until about my second or third year of university. My high school's motto was "Faith seeking understanding," and I took it seriously, which led me to study the tenets of my faith more deeply. Via a somewhat meandering road, this led me eventually to philosophy. I began to read more broadly and took great interest in discussions on religion, science, and society. My perspective began to shift as I started examining my own beliefs more closely, both alone and in conversation with others. As this process unfolded, my doubts about the credibility of Christianity only intensified. In the past, particularly during my teenage years, such doubt would have been unbearable, but this time, for whatever reason, the doubt was not anguishing. By late 2011 or early 2012, I no longer considered the doctrines of Christianity believable.

Aldebaran said:

Someone suggested I start this thread, so I did!

I understand that there are quite a few people on the forum who used to be Christians but have decided to leave the faith for a variety of reasons. Here's your chance to give your testimony--either about how you came to Christ, or about why you decided to leave, or both.

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I grew up Presbyterian and married in a 4 Square church. I haven't left Christ. How could I, I've accepted His Spirit. It's Christianity that I left. When I came to see that Christ and Christianity are two different things, that's when I began my de-conversion process. That took several years. The types of things I contemplated on during those times are these. I began to see God alive in others of other spiritual traditions which made me look at and reject the belief of Jesus being the only true way...at least the Jesus that I was being taught. Slowly I began to move from images of the historical Jesus and more towards the cosmic Christ. I also started to move toward an image of God that was more in line with Panentheism. Parallel to that I began to be freed from images of a Judgmental God, a Sinful nature and Hell. Those beliefs are no longer a part of me. What I replaced those images with is a God who is whole, united and One with every bit of this universe. So today, with in Creation itSelf is where I see and experience the presence of Christ. But than also in bringing Christ to earth, it's in the suffering and those in need, that's where I see Christ come alive and vibrant and ready to be received to humanity. As far as worshiping Jesus, no where I do not see Christ saying "worship me". What He said is "follow me".

.

jacknife said:

I could no longer reconcile my faith with the reality of the world. So I started searching for evidence and never found it.

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Boy oh Boy does this sum up my journey since I have left Christianity. I didn't think I would stay away when I left but I so much prefer not having to reconcile my faith with reality.