Now’s the Time To End Tax Exemptions for Religious Institutions

Fantine said:

Catholic schools are expensive, from kindergarten through college. I knew a family that was looking at Georgetown as an undergraduate choice for their son, and expenses would have been $75K a year. Only the very wealthy or the very poor can attend.

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It's interesting that "secular" England and Australia both give state funding to church, including Catholic, schools.

Fantine said:

Catholic schools are expensive, from kindergarten through college. I knew a family that was looking at Georgetown as an undergraduate choice for their son, and expenses would have been $75K a year. Only the very wealthy or the very poor can attend.

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that's college. I'm talking about elementary schools. that's where most children are caught in a bind.

The government has no business taxing at all. Much less taxing churches. It's a VOLUNTARY system. Everyone is automatically exempt. Just leave churches alone. The end.

GodsKnightDavid said:

The government has no business taxing at all. Much less taxing churches. It's a VOLUNTARY system. Everyone is automatically exempt. Just leave churches alone. The end.

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Taxation is not a volunteer system anywhere in the world.

ebia said:

It's interesting that "secular" England and Australia both give state funding to church, including Catholic, schools.

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Indeed.

I don't think that the American people would accept state licensing of church personnel.

I believe the issue in the US is that the people (actually the Republicans) are not willing to spend enough for services for their children. In Europe, there is much more of a recognition of the need to spend for education and health care.

Many jurisdictions in the US do have a voucher system where the parent can use state money to fund their child's education in any school.
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As an aside, the US has made college way too expensive. We cannot even understand how European countries can provide free college education for everyone, even non-citizens.

The problem with state funding of Catholic schools is that whosoever controls the purse strings is in a position to control the agenda as well.

SolomonVII said:

The problem with state funding of Catholic schools is that whosoever controls the purse strings is in a position to control the agenda as well.

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Doesn't seem to be a problem here.

ebia said:

Doesn't seem to be a problem here.

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Somehow it is not a surprise that leftists would not have a problem with big government controlling the purse strings.

For sure government controlling the purse strings is exactly the outcome that leftism aspires to.
For those who control the purse strings control the agenda.

SolomonVII said:

Somehow it is not a surprise that leftists would not have a problem with big government controlling the purse strings.

For sure government controlling the purse strings is exactly the outcome that leftism aspires to.
For those who control the purse strings control the agenda.

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I meant, it doesn't present a problem for the schools.

While nothing will ever be perfect, there are many things that governments can do much more efficiently, universally, and effectively than private charities--although both are necessary.

Never forget that in the United States, government subsidizes private charities through making contributions tax deductible. Dream on if you believe that most people would give as generously if it didn't help their balance due every April.

When someone gives the gift of appreciated stock or other assets, he gets the entire deduction for an asset that might have cost him 1/3 the value at the time the gift was made. He could get a tax writeoff that is larger than what he paid for the asset in the first place.

When you don't look at the hard facts behind conservative propaganda, you may not realize that Medicare and the VA have much, much lower overheads than private insurance, and that Social Security is administered very efficiently and effectively.

Things like the EITC eliminate a lot of administrative expense.

I am not for government largesse in place of private charity--I'm for whatever works best, and I believe that both are needed. I do get the creeps when the evangelicals make little kids take their shoes off and get their feet washed if they need free school supplies. Ugh! That's for the benefit of the givers, not the little kids. Know you're doing it for Jesus without putting them through an awkward display of your noblesse oblige, please.

ebia said:

I meant, it doesn't present a problem for the schools.

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And I meant that from a leftist point of view, there of course is not problem to be seen. Those who control the purse strings control the agenda

In Canada, school is a provincial matter. Different provinces have different histories, with some fully funding Catholics schools, such as Quebec, where that is the mainstream, and Alberta, where Catholic educators established schools early. In British Columbia, the current government would gladly fund much more, because it is a cost-saving measure. The Catholic schools are run much more efficiently than the public schools, without the union agenda driving costs up.
But the Catholic Church itself makes sure that the majority of the funding comes from parents.
That is because they have seen the examples of other provinces, where full funding has meant that those schools are compelled to comply with the current social agenda of the respective governments.
Those who control the purse strings control the agenda. That is a truism even.

SolomonVII said:

And I meant that from a leftist point of view, there of course is not problem to be seen.

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Are you calling the catholic schools leftist? I suppose you could - they are certainly leftist compared with the government currently holding their purse strings. It's the right of government here that's the main impetus behind government funding of catholic and private schools, not the left, btw. The left tends towards defunding them.

I'm not giving you my view (alone). I'm giving you the view of the schools and the catholic body that runs them.

Those who control the purse strings control the agenda

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Not to any great deal here. All schools have to teach the curriculum. Beyond that decisions are made as locally as possible - with the CEO and the school.

SolomonVII said:

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...ple_with_courts_noreligion_ruling_walkom.html

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I can't comment on Canada.

I've worked extensively in Catholic schools here, and it's not an issue. So it doesn't have to be. I've got connections to a church school in the UK and it doesn't seem to be there, either.

And it's certainly not a leftist agenda to fund them here. The push from the left generally is to defund everything except government schools.

ebia said:

I can't comment on Canada.

I've worked extensively in Catholic schools here, and it's not an issue. So it doesn't have to be. I've got connections to a church school in the UK and it doesn't seem to be there, either.

And it's certainly not a leftist agenda to fund them here. The push from the left generally is to defund everything except government schools.

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Among many on the right in the US, any government spending on a social program is unacceptable and left. Democrats (right of center from a world perspective, and perhaps even from a 1960's US perspective) are considered leftists and socialists.

Consider the rejection by the Congress of a single payer health care system, and the installation of an insurance based system (the Republican alternative from one of our states). This system is considered leftist, as is spending on Social Security, Medicare, income support, and any other social program.

ebia said:

Are you calling the catholic schools leftist? I suppose you could - they are certainly leftist compared with the government currently holding their purse strings. It's the right of government here that's the main impetus behind government funding of catholic and private schools, not the left, btw. The left tends towards defunding them.

I'm not giving you my view (alone). I'm giving you the view of the schools and the catholic body that runs them.


Not to any great deal here. All schools have to teach the curriculum. Beyond that decisions are made as locally as possible - with the CEO and the school.

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In the US, the curriculum is under the control of states and local authorities. Historically, it has been Catholics who want no control of the government over private schools. The threat of having extreme right wing evangelical churches control the schools is real. Even now, they control the curriculum of many school systems.

People in the United States have become very interested in a voucher system in order to bring the schooling of their children back into their control. This would be according to the principle of subsidiarity too, which is a doctrine that Catholics are admonished to support.
Many powerful groups fight against this and for the status quo.
Whose interests does the status quo serve?

ebia said:

And it's certainly not a leftist agenda to fund them here. The push from the left generally is to defund everything except government schools.

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The left everywhere is very interested in controlling the purse strings, to be sure.

mark46 said:

In the US, the curriculum is under the control of states and local authorities. Historically, it has been Catholics who want no control of the government over private schools. The threat of having extreme right wing evangelical churches control the schools is real. Even now, they control the curriculum of many school systems.

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Curriculum here is kind of national, but then each state has its own implementation of that. But it's firmly in the hands of the department of education - there's no direct link between public opinion and that.
(For RE church school systems have their own curricula up to year 10. In Catholic schools it's set by the diocese. In years 11-12 they have to work things to be assessed against the state's study guide if they want the qualification to count for anything, but that's pretty well designed providing you want want something suitably academicly rigerous).

SolomonVII said:

The left everywhere is very interested in controlling the purse strings, to be sure.

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The "left" here explicitly does NOT want public funding of non public schools.

How is that "interested in controlling the purse strings"?