Archbishop Sorondo--a Breath of Fresh Air, a Glass of Clean Water, a Ray of Solar Energy...

I love how if the earth just warms a few degrees it is disaster and yet we live in climates where the difference in in the tens of degrees already and yet we can't cope with a small rise in temperature?

classicalhero said:

I love how if the earth just warms a few degrees it is disaster and yet we live in climates where the difference in in the tens of degrees already and yet we can't cope with a small rise in temperature?

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I love how people conflate climate vs. weather and seasonal difference vs historic difference and assume that it will somehow discombobulate anyone who understands both the use of the terms and the science of the situation.

classicalhero said:

I love how if the earth just warms a few degrees it is disaster and yet we live in climates where the difference in in the tens of degrees already and yet we can't cope with a small rise in temperature?

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If each place were to rise a degree or two and that were it, then it wouldn't be such a big thing. Except it means less ice, and that means higher sea levels, and that means catastrophy if your whole country is only just above sea level as it is.

But the world's climate and weather systems are much more chaotic (in the mathematical sense) than that. Small changes in global temperature produce big effects in certain things, on cycles of weather, rain and snow melting, on the gulf stream - for instance global warming is likely to produce massive cooling for countries in north western europe that are kept tolerably warm by the gulf stream. Much of australia has to cope with very low rainfall and long fire seasons as it is - that rainfall may get a lot worse and the fire seasons longer and more intense. ... It's chaotic systems that produce things like hurricanes.

And all the changes are likely to occur relatively fast. Lets suppose that increased sea level and increased flooding from water coming down, makes most of Bangladesh uninhabitable. What would you do with the 150,000,000 people displaced even at a prosperous moment in time like right now, when nobody in the world wants refugees, let alone at that future point in time where everywhere is struggling?

Cold weather kills far more people than hot weather

Cold weather kills 20 times as many people as hot weather, according to an international study analyzing over 74 million deaths in 384 locations across 13 countries. The findings, published in The Lancet, also reveal that deaths due to moderately hot or cold weather substantially exceed those resulting from extreme heat waves or cold spells.

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Yet for some reason we are worried about warming the climate? We are warm climate species and the cold is our enemy yet many policies that are happening now are making things worse when it is cold, since heating costs far more than cooling down in the summer. Quite frankly we should be allowing more people access to cheap energy, not limiting access.

I don't see a connection between climate change and abortion.

However I think AvilaSurfer's words are lacking in understanding,and callous.

In the Bible, there is a death penalty for murder.
But in Exodus 22:21 and onward, it is taught that there is no death penalty for causing the death of an unborn.
If you harm a pregnant woman and cause her to have a miscarriage, you pay a fine, but don't die.
If you harm a pregnant woman and actually kill her, only then do you get a death penalty.

Fantine said:

So you are saying that it is "God's will" that sexually trafficked, serially raped young women conceive children?

Or that it is God's will that ten year olds are impregnated by abusive older relatives?

I guess next you'll say that it's God's will that over 10,000 perished in an earthquake in Nepal.

God has no part in the evil that humans perpetrate on one another, but God can inspire us to reach out in love and generosity to the victims of these injustices (although there are some people who apparently are immune to God's inspiration).

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Gonna assume you're still adressing AvilaSurfer here, even though the directly preceding posts are mine.

As I surmise from his posts, he is not really rational, so don't waste your time with trying to convince him. He probably believes aborted souls go to hell or something disgraceful like that.

Fantine said:

God has no part in the evil that humans perpetrate on one another, but God can inspire us to reach out in love and generosity to the victims of these injustices (although there are some people who apparently are immune to God's inspiration).

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At no point do we "reach out in love" with abortion.

AvilaSurfer said:

At no point do we "reach out in love" with abortion.

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Do you think your arguments sound convincing to those who disagree with you, though ?

classicalhero said:

since heating costs far more than cooling down in the summer.

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Er, no.

AvilaSurfer said:

At no point do we "reach out in love" with abortion.

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no one is suggesting we should.

What the Archbishop suggests is that issues like climate change and unfair trading increase the poverty suffered by the global poor, which in turn increases the extent to which the poor turn to things like abortion. A position that rails against aboration while condoning issues that lead to it is hypocritical.

"Praying for Margaret's pneumonia while doing nothing about the bad housing that caused it is blasphemy". (George McFonald)

ebia said:

Er, no.

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Yes, unless you have better information than this. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=13941744

The answer, experts say, is that both heating and cooling your home take large amounts of energy, more than we use for any other appliance. But according to researchers at National Geographic's The Green Guide, you will probably consume more energy heating your home than cooling it.

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You really should research before posting since it has been common recently you getting your information wrong.

ebia said:

Er, no.

no one is suggesting we should.

)

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You really should read the thread before saying that. One poster has indeed suggested that.

AvilaSurfer said:

You really should read the thread before saying that. One poster has indeed suggested that.

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Went back and checked. No she doesn't.

classicalhero said:

Yes, unless you have better information than this. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=13941744

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The article says Americans currently spend more on heating their home than cooling it, because more of America needs heating for more of the time than it needs cooling.

The process of cooling, however, uses more energy than the process of heating. You can heat either by turning energy directly into heat, or by heat pump - moving the heat from and thereby cooling somewhere else. Mostly we do the former. You can only cool by heat-pump - moving the heat energy to somewhere else. That uses a lot of energy, and it pretty much has to be in the form of electricity, which also very inefficient due to inefficiencies in generation and transmission. If you are Canada, say, and get most of your electricity from hydro thats not a problem. If you are Victoria and get it from dirty brown coal its a big problem. Of course, if the climate shifts the rainfall and your hydro plants don't have the water any more...

Of course, as has already pointed out, plenty of localities will actually get colder under climate change (most of Europe), while most localities will see more extremes of weather.

It doesn't work to apply highly simplistic thinking to a complex and chaotic system, and a few quote mines won't fix that.

Fantine said:

At long last, an archbishop who is not afraid to put 1 + 1 together for the world to see. Yes, the effects of social injustice and corporate exploitation of human and natural resources create conditions which make poor people feel abortion is their only choice.

You rock, Archbishop Sorondo.

https://c-fam.org/turtle_bay/vatican-prelate-blasts-critics-of-climate-conference/

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These bishops disagree:

http://pulse.ng/religion/catholic-b...gnated-by-boko-haram-militants-id3796540.html

"Don't abort your unborn babies" - Bishops plead with girls impregnated by Boko Haram militants
In a statement made available to journalists, Health Committee of the bishops’ conference frowned at the move to browbeat the girls into abortion

AvilaSurfer said:

These bishops disagree:

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I don't known how you work that out, since nothing in the article approaches the question.

The assertion is not "abortion is okay ..." but "climate change etc leads to increase in poverty leads people to seek abortion".

ebia said:

I don't known how you work that out.

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I'm sorry.