Petition, Role Of Women in Minstry, SDA, Stand For The Word Of God and Christ Jesus

Martin Weber should be a familiar name to many adventists; I for one have been blessed by his books. Here is an article that was published a few days ago:

Women in Leadership—a Logical and Theological Mandate

"Achieving inclusivity has been a challenge for our church. Regarding ethnicity, age and gender, Seventh-day Adventists have straggled behind secular society in facilitating human freedom and dignity. Sadly, our church had to be shamed into ethnic equality during the civil rights movement. We’ve been frightened into respecting young adults to keep from losing their membership (and their tithe). Female employees had to actually sue their way into the gender equality required by the law of the land—but only in terms of pay. Adventists still deny women equality in professional church administration by taking refuge in governmental religious “freedom” protections."

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Read the entire article here:
Women in Leadership?a Logical and Theological Mandate - Adventist Today

Seventh-day Adventists have straggled behind secular society in facilitating human freedom and dignity.

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Regardless of the issue, this statement is very worrisome. Since when are we called to follow the world in regards to it's teachings about anything? Because of human rights (which, by the way is not a Biblical teaching) we now have practicing homosexuals attaining acceptance within the churches. Heresy!

What rights do we have above God's requirements? What rights do we have or can we claim being sinful and degenerate before God Almighty? The only 'right' we have is in surrendering ourselves to Christ and pleading His blood in behalf of our sinful natures. What arrogance do we possess to think we are something special in our fallen condition.... rich, increased with goods and in need of nothing.

Following after the world should be the very opposite that we attain for... The Bible and the Bible alone should be our guide!

@EastCoastRemnant:

Oh, I'm sure that we can learn a thing or two from society in general! Why else did Jesus say that “the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light” (Luke 16:8 KJV)?

Of course we agree that we're not supposed to imitate worldly customs and ideas that are in conflict with the word of God. But have you ever considered the possibility that due to our unbelief the “secular” world might be ahead of the Church in some instances?

Weber had a couple of very specific examples, for instance ethnic equality and equal pay for equal work. Up until recently the The Church insisted that we had the right to pay women less for doing the same work as men in order to balance the budgets, and ended up losing a costly court battle over this. This is a clear example of the world being ahead of the Church, because we had inspired testimony about this issue that the Church chose to ignore. We have several examples where Ellen White warns against the idea that women should receive less pay than their male counterparts:

"When self-denial is required because of a dearth of means, do not let a few hard-working women do all the sacrificing. Let all share in making the sacrifice." - Evangelism, 492.

“And the wages of the woman [physician] should be proportionate to her services. She should be as much appreciated in her work as the gentleman physician is appreciated in his work".
- Counsels on Health, 365

“God is a God of justice, and if the ministers receive a salary for their work, their wives who devote themselves just as disinterestedly to the work, should be paid in addition to the wages their husbands receive, even though they may not ask for this.” - Evangelism, 492.

That the secular society was more true to the writings of Ellen White than the Church should have been a rebuke to us, instead the Church failed to heed inspired counsel as well as the laws of the land, and was publicly humiliated in the court because of this!

As Christians we're bound to obey the laws of the land (see Romans 13) as long as they don't conflict with the word of God, don't you agree?

Good points! I especially find the council of sister White to be interesting.

The fact that the pioneer message is being rejected by the current leadership should in no way detract from Adventism, or at least those that still hold true to what was given to us for council for the first 50 years of our movement. This problem is endemic within our denomination and is why the leadership is now considered in apostasy to her first estate.

I think the bigger issue is that satan has so controlled the constructs of our society, that woman are being forced to assume roles for which God did not intend. Likewise, men are doing the same. Under God's plan, men and woman are given distinct roles in the home and in society and the two would never have been in conflict if we followed His design.

EastCoastRemnant said:

I think the bigger issue is that satan has so controlled the constructs of our society, that woman are being forced to assume roles for which God did not intend. Likewise, men are doing the same. Under God's plan, men and woman are given distinct roles in the home and in society and the two would never have been in conflict if we followed His design.

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I very much disagree with the viewpoint that God intends men and women to function in specifically defined societal roles - other than that of father and mother since that is very much physically specific. To me that goes along with the idea of predestination theology, especially since women feel oppressed in this situation and that would mean God intended women to be oppressed and men to be honored. That doesn't speak well of God's character, nor do I see that supported in the Bible.


But going back to what Ubuntu was pointing out about the Church and the world.
I think the Church, and individual members within it, should do what is right because it is right. It doesn't matter who else is doing what is right, we should do what is right. If the world is doing what is right than we should applaud that and do likewise. If the world is doing what is wrong we should do what is right and encourage others to do right as well. Being counter-cultural only makes sense when you are doing what is right in contrast to a law or culture that is doing moral wrong. There are times when secular people seem to have a better conscience than believers - and I think this is one of those times. God does work in the world and for the salvation of the world. To believe the truth only lies within the church and we have nothing to learn from others is arrogant.

In my opinion, it is right to recognize the gifts and skills God has given individuals and it is right to acknowledge individuals God has called to leadership. God will call whomever He chooses. When we ignore what God is doing, God will not cease to do it, but we will be the ones missing out. If we exclude female ministers in our church family we will miss out on what God is doing through them. But God will still use them.

And ELOHIM said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let THEM HAVE DOMINION over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So ELOHIM created man in his own image, in THE IMAGE of ELOHIM created HE him; MALE AND FEMALE created HE THEM. And ELOHIM blessed THEM, and ELOHIM said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, AND SUBDUE IT: and HAVE DOMINION over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen 1:26

How shall we search the Scriptures in order to understand what they teach? We should come to the investigation of ELOHIM'S Word with a contrite heart, a teachable and prayerful spirit. We are not to think, as did the Jews, that our own ideas and opinions are infallible; nor with the papists, that certain individuals are the sole guardians of truth and knowledge, that men have no right to search the Scriptures for themselves, but must accept the explanations given by the fathers of the church. We should not study the Bible for the purpose of sustaining our preconceived opinions, but with the single object of learning what ELOHIM has said.
Some have feared that if in even a single point they acknowledge themselves in error other minds would be led to doubt the whole theory of truth. Therefore, they have felt that investigation should not be permitted, that it would tend to dissension and disunion. But if such is to be the result of investigation, the sooner it comes the better. If there are those whose faith in ELOHIM'S Word will not stand the test of an investigation of the Scriptures, the sooner they are revealed the better; for then the way will be opened to show them their error. We cannot hold that a position once taken, an idea once advocated, is not, under any circumstances, to be relinquished. There is BUT ONE WHO IS INFALLIBLE--He who is THE WAY, THE TRUTH, and THE LIFE. TM p. 105
There is need of a much closer study of the Word of ELOHIM; especially should Daniel and the Revelation have attention as never before in the history of our work. We may have less to say in some lines, in regard to the Roman power and the papacy; but we should call attention to what the prophets and apostles have written under the inspiration of THE HOLY SPIRIT of ELOHIM. TM p. 112

I concur with Beloved!

Blessings!

Here is an open letter about women ordination written by Tom "The Bible Biker" Huges:

As a pastor in the Seventh-day Adventist Church for over 35 years I have seen many controversial subjects discussed. However, as our GC president has taken a very negative stance on women’s ministry, and prominent television ministries and publishing houses have done the same, I must publicly and respectfully disagree with them, so I’m writing this open letter to draw attention to Ten Questions that concern me.

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Read more: An Open Letter to the Opponents of Women in Ministry - Ten Questions I?d Like You to Answer - Adventist Today

JojotheBeloved said:

In my opinion, it is right to recognize the gifts and skills God has given individuals and it is right to acknowledge individuals God has called to leadership. God will call whomever He chooses. When we ignore what God is doing, God will not cease to do it, but we will be the ones missing out. If we exclude female ministers in our church family we will miss out on what God is doing through them. But God will still use them.

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Amen to this!

Yet another conference has decided to go forward with ordination of female pastors, regardless of the outcome of the upcoming General Conference Session:

Berlin-Central German Conference Votes to Implement Women's Ordination

"On Sunday, May 10, delegates from the Berlin-Central German Conference of Seventh-day Adventists voted during the conference's quadrennial constituency session in Leipzig, Germany to implement women's ordination."

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Read more: http://spectrummagazine.org/article...-conference-votes-implement-womens-ordination

I wrote a letter to the Messenger, a BUC newsletter on this issue here:
http://adventist.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/53922/Bam2015-06.pdf

The authority of the GC in Session is similar to that of Acts 15.

In one of my books, "the investigative judgement: am I saved?" I wrote about the need to be able to receive counsel from others. In Acts 15 the church came together under the Holy Spirit to decide a difficult issue. One of our doctrines is Unity in the Body of Christ. Our purpose is to proclaim the three angels' message, that is what we need to be united upon, and the everlasting gospel which is the center of this message, righteousness by faith, and obedience to the 10 Commandments.

Marc Rasell

Marc, I did not see your letter to the messenger in the link you provided...

However I did want to comment on what you said about unity and council in the church. I agree that the unity that we need to come together on is the three angels message however, the GC is focusing less and less on this and directing it's energies to issues dealing with spiritualism.... focusing on love for God and the brethren above obedience to His Word.

EastCoastRemnant said:

Marc, I did not see your letter to the messenger in the link you provided...

However I did want to comment on what you said about unity and council in the church. I agree that the unity that we need to come together on is the three angels message however, the GC is focusing less and less on this and directing it's energies to issues dealing with spiritualism.... focusing on love for God and the brethren above obedience to His Word.

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The letter is in the section "inbox", about the third page down.

Apparently 83% of the delegates to the GC session in San Antonio are male, and 84% are 40 years or older with the majority being over 50 years old. Obviously these facts raise some serious issues...

Source: http://spectrummagazine.org/sites/default/files/Delegates_1.png
and: http://news.adventist.org/all-news/news/go/2015-05-28/gc-session-101-discovering-the-delegates/

The numbers of the previous post need to be contrasted with the demographics of the overall membership in the Church.

62% of our members are under 40 years old and 57% of us are females. 45% of our membership are under 30 years old, while only 6% of the delegates to the GC session are less than 30 years old.

Source: http://spectrummagazine.org/article...-conference-delegates-division-gender-and-age

3 Angels Messages said:

Petition,
Role Of Women in Minstry,
Seventh Day Adventists, Stand For The Word Of God and Christ Jesus!

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Men shall make no rules regarding any gender lest others make such rules for men.


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