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No, God's word says that Satan is the Serpent. I believe I've stated the references already.
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Why did God Punish Snakes Instead of Satan?
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The dragon in Revelation has wings. We know that because the dragon is in the sky. Artists draw the dragon in Revelation with legs and wings.
The snake in Genesis did not have wings. If the snake had wings, God would have ordered the loss of wings at the same time that he ordered the loss of legs. The dragon in Revelation 12:3 is red and is gigantic. Genesis doesn’t give the snake a color and it is of no great size. There is no reason to draw a connection between the serpent of Genesis and the Dragon of Revelation.
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Satan is mentioned over a dozen times in the Book of Job, about fifteen times. The word “dragon” does not appear in Job. Satan is never called a serpent in Job. There is no connection between “Satan” and “serpent” in Job.
If we have to get the meaning of “serpent” from Revelation to understand Genesis, then no one understood the Garden of Eden story for over a thousand years after it was composed. Are we to believe that neither Moses nor any of the OT prophets knew the meaning of the creation story?
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Daniel Marsh
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snakes were like that before the fall.
"A spate of fossil snakes has led to excited science news reports in recent years.1 The latest is a tiny snake fossil (5cm or 2 in long) from Myanmar, thought to be an embryo or a very young baby. According to a member of the research team, University of Alberta palaeontologist Prof Michael Coldwell, “This is the very first baby snake fossil that we have ever found.”2 Believing it to be 98.8 Ma (million years) old, “from the age of dinosaurs”, they named it Xiaophis myanmarensis.3
The young snake’s bones were beautifully preserved in amber, a plastic-like material that was formerly tree resin. The fossil shows 97 vertebrae and ribs but the skull was not found. Some nearby shed snake skin fragments are assumed to be from the creature. However, there was no trace of hind legs or even a pelvis (hip), though these are known from certain ‘younger’ fossil snakes.
Baby snake fossil defies evolution
Newest baby snake fossil Xiaophis myanmarensis defies evolution by showing snakes in the fossils fully formed.
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Daniel Marsh
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The thick bold arrow indicates the estimated lizard-to-snake transition. In contrast to other figures, the color code reflects here different ecologies. Red shading indicates the region occupied by convergent fossorial snake and lizard species. Body shapes of species near the reconstructed MRCAs are indicated by letters (see legend in right panel with schematic shapes: a, typical lizard-like body; b, reduced forelimbs; c, reduced forelimbs and elongated body; d, no forelimbs, reduced hindlimbs, and elongated body; e, no limbs, elongated body; f, legless snake-like body).
www.nature.com
The ecological origins of snakes as revealed by skull evolution - Nature Communications
Three alternatives have been proposed for the ecological state of the ancestral snake: fossorial (burrowing), aquatic, or terrestrial. Here, the authors use an integrative geometric morphometric approach that suggests evolution from terrestrial to fossorial in the most recent common ancestor of...
www.nature.com
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Daniel Marsh
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Snakes Have Always Been Snakes
It's an old story. An animal or plant is discovered in sedimentary rocks by paleontologists and it pushes the organism's origin further back by many millions of years—but it's always a plant or animal already known to science. Granted, some of these fossilized creatures are extinct, but that's...
5 Prehistoric Snakes (One Was the Size of a School Bus!)
Over 3,500 different types of snakes exist in today's world, but what were snakes like in the past? Come find out!
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AussiePete: “No, I'm affirming the description of Satan's fall in Ezekiel 28.”
There is no Fall of Satan or Fall of the Rebel Angels in Ezekiel Chapter 28.
It is about God’s judgment on the King of Tyre.
From John Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible:
Quote
INTRODUCTION TO EZEKIEL 28 This chapter contains a prophecy of the destruction of the prince of Tyre; a lamentation for the king of Tyre; a denunciation of judgments on Zidon, and a promise of peace and safety to Israel. The order given the prophet to prophesy of the ruin of the prince of Tyre, Eze 28:1, the cause of his ruin, his pride on account of his wisdom and riches, which rose to such a pitch, as to make himself God, Eze 28:2, the manner in which his destruction shall be accomplished, Eze 28:7, the lamentation for the king of Tyre begins Eze 28:11, setting forth his former grandeur and dignity, Eze 28:13, his fall, and the cause of it, injustice and violence in merchandise, pride because of beauty and wisdom, and profanation of sanctuaries, Eze 28:16, next follow the judgments on Zidon, Eze 28:20, and the chapter is concluded with a promise of the restoration of the Jews to their own land, and of great tranquillity and safety in it, Eze 28:24.
End Quote
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brakelite
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KJV Ezekiel 28:11-19
11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
There is a dual application to this prophecy... King of Tyre, yes, but also Lucifer, one of 2 angels who stood next to the throne of God. The angels in the OT sanctuary were depictions of those covering cherubs, one of which was Lucifer, aka Satan.
You may not know that the word for traffic, merchandise etc mentioned a couple of times here and in some other places, has is root meaning, slander/lies, which is totally apt in relation to the slander and lies that Lucifer spread in heaven regarding the character of God during his fall and expulsion. This slander, traffic, has continued since, with the character of God much maligned not only in the world, but even in the church itself.
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HarleyER
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That's an interesting question. I suspect it has to do with God later instructing Moses to put the serpent on the pole. The people were to look to the "cursed" snake and live (Numbers 21:8). Everyone who hangs on a tree is cursed (Deut 21:22-23). God might have cursed the snake as a foreshadowing of Christ because Paul uses this as an example in Gal 3:13 (Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”—). But none of the commentators know for sure and I wouldn't start a new denomination over my speculation.
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Says you. I disagree. The first time I read that chapter, I realised that it was referring to Satan as well as the physical King of Tyre.
"You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God. Every kind of precious stone adorned you: ruby, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, turquoise, and emerald. Your mountings and settings were crafted in gold, prepared on the day of your creation. You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for I had ordained you."
To place the natural King of Tyre in Eden is ridiculous. That would make him far older than anyone who lived previously. Guardian Cherub? A cherub is a spirit being, not a man. Satan is the god of this world and the real power behind every godless authority. I don't know John Gill. My understanding of the passage is not the same as his. We will find out for sure when we go to be with Jesus.
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John Gill was a master of ancient languages and is a commentator highly respected by conservative Christians.
Here is another commentary that sheds light on the matter.
Heading:
Prophecies Against Tyre and a Brief Fragment Against Sidon
(Ezek. 26:1 – 28:26)
<< Chapter 28 turns from the city to the ruler who is called “the prince of Tyre.” He personifies the spirit of the proud metropolis. A severe indictment is brought against him as the prophet specifies the particular sin which was the foundation for all the other iniquities. By equating himself with God, the prince committed blasphemy. He attributed all his prosperity to his own wisdom and ruled out any dependence on God.. A terrible fate awaits him.
Verses 11-19 contain the final prophecy which is a lamentation over the king. The prince of Tyre is symbolically placed in the Garden of Eden where there is perfection. Because of his great desire for splendor, his pride led him to corruption. Those who sought his punishment were appalled because of his dreadful end. >>
The commentary considers the possibility that Tyre is a veiled reference to Babylon but finds this unlikely. It doesn’t mention Satan.
Source:
The Teacher’s Bible Commentary, Editors: H. Franklin Paschall, OT, and Herschel H. Hobbs, NT
Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1972; p. 2508-511, especially 510.
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brakelite
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While I have the utmost respect for anyone who through their great learning and intellect have written commentaries on scripture, they do not necessarily have the last word. Not all revelation was known in the 18th century, when Gill was alive. Same with later expositors, even those of today. We will always be learning even in eternity.
KJV Ezekiel 28:12-15
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Clearly, the King of Tyre was a type of Lucifer, and Ezekiel in his description of the King was informing us of the character and nature also Lucifer. The King of Tyre was not an anointed cherub. He was not in Eden. He did not walk up and down before the throne of God. He did not stand in reverent awe and protection over God's laws.
KJV Exodus 25:18-22
18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.
19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof.
20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.
21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.
22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.
KJV Hebrews 8:1-5
1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
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brakelite
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While I have the utmost respect for anyone who through their great learning and intellect have written commentaries on scripture, they do not necessarily have the last word. Not so revelation was known in the 18th century, when Gill was alive. Same with later expositors, even those of today. We will always be learning even in eternity.
KJV Ezekiel 28:12-15
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Clearly, the King of Tyre was a type of Lucifer, and Ezekiel in his description of the King was informing us of the character and nature also Lucifer. The King of Tyre was not an anointed cherub. He was not in Eden. He did not walk up and down before the throne of God. He did not stand in reverent awe and protection over God's laws.
KJV Exodus 25:18-22
18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.
19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof.
20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.
21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.
22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.
KJV Hebrews 8:1-5
1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
In other words. The temple and it's furniture, the priesthood, it's services and all the feast days and offerings and sacrifices, all pointed to Christ Who would officiate as the ultimate High Priest in the true sanctuary in heaven upon which the earthly was a small scaled model. This includes the cherubim whose likeness was placed upon the ark. These 2 cherubim 'covered "the mercy seat... The throne of God under which was the foundation of all good government in heaven and earth... The law. Lucifer was one of those covering cherubs, second only to Christ Himself in rank and power.
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Roderick Spode
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I personally don't believe it was a literal snake. Nor do I believe the snake is a cursed animal. One of the definitions for that same word in Hebrew for wild animal in Hebrew is living being. I think the author chose not to give Satan any honor by using his name or position (possibly not knowing).
The author was obviously very familiar with snakes being a contemporary of Moses, or Moses himself. He observed, and considered it's lifestyle as being inconvenient, having their face close to the ground, being held captive by magicians, probably purposefully ran over by chariots (like autos do today), etc.
Scripture does refer to snakes in a negative way at times, like Jesus referring to religious leaders as vipers, and God's people treading on snakes. But it also mentions God's people treading on lions, and I don't think the animal itself is cursed. A number of reptiles that have legs are close to the ground, including crocodiles (when out of the water). Some people believe Leviathan is a crocodile. If that were true, scripture doesn't seem to describe them as a cursed creature. And sometimes scripture gives a more positive reference to serpents/snakes like Jesus' warning to be wise as serpents. There was also the pole God commanded Moses to use for the purpose to be healed upon looking at the image of a serpent mounted at the top. So there was obviously significant cultural elements between a snake and that time period. The snake was believed to have healing properties.
And it seems the author observed the craftiness of a snake in terms of being a predator. I would think the mouse would be more cursed than a snake in that respect.
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Terri Dactyl
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Animals speaking appear to be pre sin.Balaam was later
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Brakelite: “There is a dual application to this prophecy... King of Tyre, yes, but also Lucifer, one of 2 angels who stood next to the throne of God. The angels in the OT sanctuary were depictions of those covering cherubs, one of which was Lucifer, aka Satan.”
You attach great significance to the “covering cherubs” on the Ark. The covering cherubs were decorations with no theological significance. According to the Jewish Rabbis, there were three types of angels in the OT, cherubim, seraphim, and ophanim. “Lucifer” is not a term used by the rabbis, it only came into use in the Christian era.
When Isaiah has a vision of the Throne of God in Isaiah 6, God is surrounded by “seraphs” or seraphim, not cherubs or cherubim.
The word or name, Lucifer, comes from Roman mythology and it means “light bearer,” not “covering cherub.”
<< Lucifer, (Latin: Lightbearer) in classical mythology, the morning star (i.e., the planet Venus at dawn); personified as a male figure bearing a torch, Lucifer had almost no legend, but in poetry he was often herald of the dawn. In Christian times Lucifer came to be regarded as the name of Satan before his fall. >>
Source
Lucifer | Fallen Angel, Morning Star, Lightbringer
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brakelite
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KJV Hebrews 8:1-5
1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
KJV Exodus 25:18-20
18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.
19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof.
20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims
be.
KJV Ezekiel 28:14
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
The OT sanctuary was made according to the specific pattern and instructions given to Moses on Sinai. That pattern or blueprint was a miniature copy of the true and original temple in heaven built by God Himself. Every single item in the earthly was deliberate and portrayed real literal counterparts in the heavenly. Those angels weren't there just to look nice. The original had specific roles to play, and there can be no doubt there is significant spiritual meaning regarding their work.
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