Who Here Believes Born Again Christians...

[BNR32FAN]

Didn't Jesus say each one of then would deny Him?
Didn't each one deny Him?
Are each one of them in hell?

No He didn’t say each one of them would deny Him He said Peter would deny Him 3 times. And no Peter didn’t go to hell because he repented.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Listen, I hate to tell you this, but I doubt you are living up to your high standards for everyone else and you'll probably be in hell.

According to your logic.

My standards? I didn’t write the gospel of John and these are Jesus’ words not mine.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I think Satan uses well meaning people to discourage Christians.

I’m not trying to discourage anyone we all have the ability to bear fruit and abide in Christ.

 

[Oldmantook]

Did I say that?

I said I don't care if you think Paul contradicts/disagrees with the Word of God.

I don't think any of the canonical prophets and ministers in the canon contradict the Word of God; I think a lot of people are fine with building contradictory doctrine from those humans because it fits dogma.

However, I reject anything that contradicts the Word of God Himself.

I notice you did not even bother to reply to what the Apostle John wrote that only those sheep who listen and follow Jesus are promised not to be snatched out of the Father's hand. That remains problematic for you.
How about James' writings then where he states: "My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins" (Js 5:19-20).

Your own belief contradicts the Word of God as you not only deny the writings of Paul, but John and James as well.

 

[Oldmantook]

***SNARK ALERT****

How so? Simply wrestle with the scriptures if you disagree.

 

[Monk Brendan]

No, I think that "accept Christ into your heart and life" means what those verses say.

What do you think those verses are saying?

Your OT verses certainly don't refer to "accepting Christ."

Why do you think they do?

 

[cuplet]

NOWHERE does the Bible say to "accept Christ into your heart and life."

I"m gobsmacked by Christians who think one's salvation is based on non-Biblical ideas.

We know about John 3:3. Unless a man ( person) is Born Again,they will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven. These are the words of Lord Jesus. And we are to be Filled with the Holy Spirit. It is Biblical, in fact, the Lord is telling us straight up. I am taught that it's not enough to do Good Works, alone. We are saved by Grace,through Faith. Good works will not ,in and of themselves, do it. We do good works because we are saved, not in order to be saved. ( Big difference). And we give God the Glory. This is ,indeed Biblical. Being Born Again is surely Biblical.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I think Satan uses well meaning people to discourage Christians.

Friend please don’t mistake my posts for being attacking. That is not my intention at all and if I have in any way been impolite in my posts I sincerely apologize. I to believed in eternal security and defended it fiercely. Then someone quoted John 15 and I made it my mission to debunk his implications about it. The more I researched and studied the Greek definitions trying desperately to prove that it didn’t refute eternal security the more evidence I began to see that it does. Finally in the end I had to admit I was wrong. I’m not saying you should admit your wrong I’m just trying to reconcile with you because I sense that you are perhaps a bit indifferent towards me. I just wanted to say that I once believed as you do and it wasn’t easy to reevaluate everything I thought I knew about salvation. After I realized I couldn’t interpret John 15 to support eternal security I had to go back and reevaluate the scriptures that I believed did support eternal security and I realized that these verses can be interpreted in a way that doesn’t refute conditional salvation. As I realized this it dawned on me that this is what the church has been teaching since the very beginning. It’s supported both by the early church and early church father’s writings. All of the scriptures made sense and did not contradict one another. Before I would see passages like Ephesians 5:3-6 or Galatians 5:19-21 and think to myself surely He can’t mean anyone. This must only be for nonbelievers because believers can’t lose their salvation no matter what. That’s what I had always been taught. Another indication was this teaching didn’t emerge until over 1500 years after the church was established and the apostolic churches never taught eternal security. So if eternal security is true this means that ALL of the churches established by the apostles failed to do what Jesus had commanded them to do. That not one of His churches remained true to His teachings. This would mean that evil did prevail over Jesus’ church which He said would not happen. So for eternal security to be true there would’ve had to have been at least one church somewhere out there that taught eternal security since the beginning of Christianity. It could not remain hidden because it is tasked by God that it MUST bear fruit. I believe the church exists today as it always has as the Eastern Orthodox Church. The first churches ever established are Orthodox and their teachings today are reflected in the earliest church writings as well as the scriptures themselves. Just please consider these things my friend and God bless you.

 

[BNR32FAN]

We know about John 3:3. Unless a man ( person) is Born Again,they will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven. These are the words of Lord Jesus. And we are to be Filled with the Holy Spirit. It is Biblical, in fact, the Lord is telling us straight up. I am taught that it's not enough to do Good Works, alone. We are saved by Grace,through Faith. Good works will not ,in and of themselves, do it. We do good works because we are saved, not in order to be saved. ( Big difference). And we give God the Glory. This is ,indeed Biblical. Being Born Again is surely Biblical.

Amen well said

 

[Kaon]

I think a lot of people's confusion comes from Jesus always trolling the Pharasies, and everyone thinking He is actually talking about the truly saved and not those who think they are.

This is an excellent way to put it in modern. Trolling.

Unfortunately, the institutions took the trololol, and made distorted doctrine from it.

 

[Kaon]

That’s all good except one thing. Who’s Jesus talking to? We’re His 11 faithful apostles not His sheep? Are you purposely skipping all the relevant pieces?

The Word of God is talking to everyone who has eyes to see, and ears to hear. The disciples are the firstfruit of His instruction - but it applies to all of us who want to be a follow of Christ/Christians.

Why does Jesus tell them “Remain in Me” if they are incapable of not remaining in Him?

Because He is speaking to all of us, including the disciples, and reminding us to keep His commandments. It is akin to anaphora - specifically the "remain in me/keep my commandments" that He repeatedly emphasizes.

Then He explains why they must remain in Him because if they don’t they cannot bear fruit.

He is using another literary device - intrusion. He is talking not only to the disciples, but all of us. Lest we forget, we need to remain in Him (keep His commandments) if we want to produce fruit. If we don't produce fruit, it is because we do not remain in Him. Anyone listening to this message with ears to hear and eyes to see is the target. The lost are already ignorant of what He is saying, even though He is also talking about them.

Then He explains to them the consequences of failing to remain in Him which is they will be thrown away to wither (dry up and waste away) then thrown (without regard or care of one’s wellbeing often violently or intensely) into the fire to be burned. That’s according to the Greek definitions of the words used. His apostles are not excluded when He said “anyone who does not abide in me”. Anyone means anyone believer or not.

Right. And what is the metaphor of fire and burning used to describe?

Hell.

Who goes to hell?

Those who aren't resurrected, and die the second death.

Who dies the second death?

Those who do not keep the commandments of the Word of God Himself and the commandments of the Most High God.

What are the commandments of the Most High God?

They are what they have always been - as He does not change, and He has never declared His Law, or commandments as null, void or inactive for anyone that wants to be His son/daughter.


We have been told all things. It is up to us to believe it, and do it. The Word of God Himself is very clear.

 

[Kaon]

I notice you did not even bother to reply to what the Apostle John wrote that only those sheep who listen and follow Jesus are promised not to be snatched out of the Father's hand. That remains problematic for you.
How about James' writings then where he states: "My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins" (Js 5:19-20).

Your own belief contradicts the Word of God as you not only deny the writings of Paul, but John and James as well.

The Word of God Himself trumps James, John and Paul. I gave what the Word of God Himself said; that is enough for me.

Anyone who contradicts the Word of God Himself is at best wrong, and in general a liar.

Do I believe James, John or Paul contradict The Word of God? Absolutely not.

Do I believe people (mis)interpret the human prophets to fit their own dogma, and that the institutions of the Church ecumenism have substantiated the growth of said dogma? YES.

Now, please choose carefully what you think your issue is with what I have said, so that I can respond without repeating myself. I meant everything, and exactly what I said.

 

[Kaon]

I notice you did not even bother to reply to what the Apostle John wrote that only those sheep who listen and follow Jesus are promised not to be snatched out of the Father's hand. That remains problematic for you.
How about James' writings then where he states: "My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins" (Js 5:19-20).

Your own belief contradicts the Word of God as you not only deny the writings of Paul, but John and James as well.

The Word of God Himself trumps James, John and Paul. I gave what the Word of God Himself said; that is enough for me.

Anyone who contradicts the Word of God Himself is at best wrong, and in general a liar.

Do I believe James, John or Paul contradict The Word of God? Absolutely not.

Do I believe people (mis)interpret the human prophets to fit their own dogma, and that the institutions of the Church ecumenism have substantiated the growth of said dogma? YES.

Now, please choose carefully what you think your issue is with what I have said, so that I can respond without repeating myself. I meant everything, and exactly what I said.

 

[cuplet]

Amen well said

Thanks !

 

[Oldmantook]

The Word of God Himself trumps James, John and Paul

That says it all regarding where you stand. Believe what you choose to believe!

 

[Kenny'sID]

Are we really doing this again? The last 10,000 threads trying to justify, "Go ahead and sin, you are saved no matter what you do" haven't even cooled down yet.

Sorry OP, as much as you hate to hear it, there are several places in the bible that state the saved must at least make an attempt to do good.

 

[Kaon]

That says it all regarding where you stand. Believe what you choose to believe!

It should: I meant exactly what I said.

The Word of God Himself trumps Paul, James, John and any other man that has ever existed.

I don't follow men, although (as I said before,) I do not believe any of the aforementioned men are against the Word of God Himself.

 

[Kaon]

Are we really doing this again? The last 10,000 threads trying to justify, "Go ahead and sin, you are saved no matter what you do" haven't even cooled down yet.

Sorry OP, as much as you hate to hear it, there are several places in the bible that state the saved must at least make an attempt to do good.

Kenny, there is a serious problem in the "Church," as it were.

We can't even get to sanctification (eventual, and ultimate pure obedience to the Word of God), or what sin is, because there is a disconnect on whether we are supposed to follow the Law of God itself - let alone which ones to begin with. The disciples tried this when they tried to condense the Law (which we are to follow in obedience) into four or five tenants that the gentiles should begin with - since they were drinking spiritual milk.

The institution has not moved away from drinking spiritual milk after these centuries; people still believe obedience comes down to a literal two, or four laws. The Most High God has not changed His standards.

 

[Hank77]

Your OT verses certainly don't refer to "accepting Christ."

Why do you think they do?

I didn't say that they did.
Although 'believing in the Messiah Redeemer' isn't just a NT revelation.

Monk Brendan said: ↑
And you actually think these verses me to "accept Christ into your heart"?

No, I think that "accept Christ into your heart and life" means what those verses say.

Having Jesus in your heart and in your life means that you

Mat_22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Maybe it's the 'accepting Jesus' that you are questioning and I'm misunderstanding you?

 

[Ken C.]

I think Satan uses well meaning people to discourage Christians.

It's easy to do. I think that if a new, born again believer who is only a day or two old were to be reading these posts they would probably say 'whoa, what I have gotten myself into.' And Satan is on the sidelines egging it all on. It reminds me of how Satan deceived Eve in the garden. 'Did God really say...'