Who Here Believes Born Again Christians...

[Kenyon Ledford]

There are a lot of people who believe they are born again, but are not.

The same number will be surprised when they are rejected at the Resurrection, as they believe they are living for the Word of God Himself. It is a matter of carnal consequence that the lot of us are confused about salvation, and spiritual (re)birth.

Once you are saved, you are saved. However, the definition of saved is foreign to a lot of people who believe they are saved.

What I have found disgusting in this thread is an acronym I'd never heard of before: OSAS. A sneering, mocking little acronym tossed around to laugh at people who are born again, and it's used by other people who either aren't born again, or are born again, but I guess 'more so'

 

[Kenyon Ledford]

Your point?

You said it almost sounded like something you said but not quite, when it was, and exactly.

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

You said it almost sounded like something you said but not quite, when it was, and exactly.

No. I never said that Christians aren't to follow Jesus.

 

[ms.smith]

Well said my friend. It was almost as if the question was put in a way that to disagree would make someone look bad and even be ridiculed by their fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.

Well I'll start by asking you a question of my own, "Who here thinks that the once saved always saved doctrine applies? Like I've seen in this forum a view that seems to state that once you accept Jesus you're guaranteed to go to Heaven. Like I washed my clothes once I never have to wash them again! Or I shaved last week I'm good for all eternity! "Once shaved always shaved" as I like to put it. I mean who here even believes that we don't have to ask for Jesus to wash our sins away in order to be clean, but rather we can somehow sin without any necessity to ask for forgiveness when it happens."

As if the blood of Christ is only as effective as laundry detergent or a razor blade.

I do believe Christ's blood is sufficient, but I also believe He expects us to ask for forgiveness. When He modeled prayer for us, it included asking for forgiveness. I don't think we can sin without any necessity to ask forgiveness when it happens.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I don't know why we're debating this. Someone earlier in this thread said they didn't
need to accept Christ in their heart or follow Jesus. They became a Christian by getting
baptized as an infant. Lock Thread.

That sounds like someone who hasn’t studied the scriptures very much. Most likely taking someone else’s word for it. That was my approach for many years and when I finally began to study God’s word I realized I was way off coarse from what the Bible says.

 

[BNR32FAN]

True because we do have free will to my understanding

It seems this breaks down into 2 sides

Side A once you are saved you are always saved ( anyone who believes this verses please)

Side B you have freewill thus it is YOUR decision to accept Christs offer and follow Him also if you leave Him you loose salvation ( it seems to me this is true please show verses )

Here are some verses to support side B.

John 15:1-10, Matthew 24:11-13, Romans 11:17-24, Mark 13:12-13, John 6:37 (many people believe this verse supports OSAS but the proper definition of the Greek word translated to “comes or cometh” is ONLY used in the present and imperfect tense indicating He will certainly not cast out anyone who presently and continuously comes to Him.) Matthew 10:33, Matthew 10:38, I think that’s enough for now. There’s certainly more examples to support that a person who turns away from God can lose their salvation.

 

[Kaon]

One can be genuinely saved but yet still fall away. The NT is replete with warnings against apostasy which can only apply to a regenerate believer. It is impossible for the unsaved to depart/apostatize from the faith since they were never part of the faith to begin with. Only believers can depart from the faith they were once a part of. Therefore once saved, not necessarily always saved.

Nothing can be snatched from the Most High God's hand. We either believe Him when He says that, or we make a dogma to ameliorate our (mis)understanding. If you "fell away," you weren't in His hand. This is why people in a large number will believe they are saved - meaning they think they are doing what they are supposed to do - and they will be rejected because they never actually knew Christ.

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

That sounds like someone who hasn’t studied the scriptures very much. Most likely taking someone else’s word for it. That was my approach for many years and when I finally began to study God’s word I realized I was way off coarse from what the Bible says.

What @Kenyon Ledford has posted is a misrepresentation of what I actually said.

 

[Kaon]

What I have found disgusting in this thread is an acronym I'd never heard of before: OSAS. A sneering, mocking little acronym tossed around to laugh at people who are born again, and it's used by other people who either aren't born again, or are born again, but I guess 'more so'

It's division to dilute and distort the truth - whether those who participate in it realize it or not.

You are born once in flesh, and once in spirit. Once you are His, you are His.

 

[Oldmantook]

Nothing can be snatched from the Most High God's hand. We either believe Him when He says that, or we make a dogma to ameliorate our (mis)understanding. If you "fell away," you weren't in His hand. This is why people in a large number will believe they are saved - meaning they think they are doing what they are supposed to do - and they will be rejected because they never actually knew Christ.

Deal with scripture; not conjecture. Romans 8:13 contradicts your belief.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Nothing can be snatched from the Most High God's hand. We either believe Him when He says that, or we make a dogma to ameliorate our (mis)understanding. If you "fell away," you weren't in His hand. This is why people in a large number will believe they are saved - meaning they think they are doing what they are supposed to do - and they will be rejected because they never actually knew Christ.

But according to John 15:2 The Father cuts off branches who are “in Christ” that do not bear fruit.

 

[Kaon]

Deal with scripture; not conjecture. Romans 8:13 contradicts your belief.

I don't care if you think Paul disagrees with The Word of God, but the Word of God Himself said that no one can snatch one of His out of His hand.

That means no man, demon, sin, lifestyle, or dogma can make someone fall out of His possession.

 

[BNR32FAN]

What @Kenyon Ledford has posted is a misrepresentation of what I actually said.

Please forgive friend my intention was not to offend you. My statement was contingent on the hypothetical situation if someone had made such a claim that he posted. Not directly related to you my friend.

 

[Kaon]

But according to John 15:2 The Father cuts off branches who are “in Christ” that do not bear fruit.

That is because only good fruit comes from a Good vine.

Those were never part of Him in the first place. Remember, right now the wheat and fares are growing together until Harvest. The Word of God gave a metaphor for Resurrection, and Judgment through an image that the Hebrews would readily resonate with.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I don't care if you think Paul disagrees with The Word of God, but the Word of God Himself said that no one can snatch one of His out of His hand.

That means no man, demon, sin, lifestyle, or dogma can make someone fall out of His possession.

Is sin or lifestyle someone? You are taking that verse way out of context my friend. Sin and lifestyle absolutely can take away someone’s salvation. All the verses pertaining to people indulging in sinful lifestyles who will not enter the kingdom of Heaven, do you think those are referring only to nonbelievers? No those verses are only referring to believers because nonbelievers don’t qualify for salvation to begin with. No one can come to The Father except thru Jesus.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That is because only good fruit comes from a Good vine.

Those were never part of Him in the first place. Remember, right now the wheat and fares are growing together until Harvest. The Word of God gave a metaphor for Resurrection, and Judgment through an image that the Hebrews would readily resonate with.

Jesus is the vine. Verse 2 specifically says the branches that are cut off are IN CHRIST. You are twisting the verse out of context to fit your beliefs my friend. Just read it for what it says and let the scriptures do the teaching. The scriptures say the branches are in Christ and you are saying they are not. How can they be cut off from the vine (Christ) if they are not attached?

 

[Kaon]

Is sin or lifestyle someone? You are taking that verse way out of context my friend. Sin and lifestyle absolutely can take away someone’s salvation. All the verses pertaining to people indulging in sinful lifestyles who will not enter the kingdom of Heaven, do you think those are referring only to nonbelievers? No those verses are only referring to believers because nonbelievers don’t qualify for salvation to begin with. No one can come to The Father except thru Jesus.

What influences us to sin? Abstractions, or entities that exploit our carnal weaknesses?

You are allowed to think when meditating on the Word of God. In fact, He demands it (thinking, and drawing conclusions based on literary analysis and historical evidence is part of listening, and hearing.)

It comes down to this: do you believe the Most High God, or not?

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I and my Father are one. John 10:18-20​

Man creates dogma that leads men astray. Man creates subjective, institutional systems that lead people astray. Men teach other men how to indulge in demons and principalities for their benefit. Man teaches man to murder. Man teaches man to be racist. Man teaches iniquity with every step s/he takes - if man is simply carnal man, and not reborn. You saying I am reaching is, with all due respect, no skin off of my teeth.

It saddens me much more when I am called a judiazer, or heretic for having the audacity to suggest Christians are supposed to follow the Laws and commandments of our Father. You haven't gotten to that point yet.

 

[Kaon]

Jesus is the vine. Verse 2 specifically says the branches that are cut off are IN CHRIST. You are twisting the verse out of context to fit your beliefs my friend. Just read it for what it says and let the scriptures do the teaching. The scriptures say the branches are in Christ and you are saying they are not. How can they be cut off from the vine (Christ) if they are not attached?

Do you think a Good tree bears bad fruit?

What did the Word of God say about good trees?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Just as a preemptive before someone says the branches are “lifted up” that is an inaccurate translation. The

What influences us to sin? Abstractions, or entities that exploit our carnal weaknesses?

You are allowed to think when meditating on the Word of God. In fact, He demands it (thinking, and drawing conclusions based on literary analysis and historical evidence is part of listening, and hearing.)

It comes down to this: do you believe the Most High God, or not?

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I and my Father are one. John 10:18-20​

Man creates dogma that leads men astray. Man creates subjective, institutional systems that lead people astray. Men teach other men how to indulge in demons and principalities for their benefit. Man teaches man to murder. Man teaches man to be racist. Man teaches iniquity with every step s/he takes - if man is simply carnal man, and not reborn. You saying I am reaching is, with all due respect, no skin off of my teeth.

It saddens me much more when I am called a judiazer, or heretic for having the audacity to suggest Christians are supposed to follow the Laws and commandments of our Father. You haven't gotten to that point yet.

My sheep hear my voice I know them and they follow me. He doesn’t say they followed me. He says present tense they follow me.

 

[Oldmantook]

I don't care if you think Paul disagrees with The Word of God, but the Word of God Himself said that no one can snatch one of His out of His hand.

That means no man, demon, sin, lifestyle, or dogma can make someone fall out of His possession.

You don't care what the Apostle Paul wrote?? That speaks volumes as most of the NT epistles were written by Paul. Thus you disagree with most of the NT don't you?
And BTW, since you prefer to believe the Apostle John, why don't you bother to read John 10:27 which tells you who the sheep are who are not snatched out of the Father's hand; i.e. those sheep who LISTEN and OBEY. Sheep who don't listen and obey do not have the assurances of vs. 28-29.