Truth or tradition/pagan holidays

[Lord's Servant]

Yeah hahaha and there's at least 20 mistakes or more in that video as well

 

[pat34lee]

There are also rules and etiquette on forums, which you seem not to know.

Who doesn't?
You made an open post on a forum. Unless you are asking
personal information from someone, then anyone with
information or an opinion on the subject is free to reply.

 

[pat34lee]

As far as I'm concerned if the Old Testament is obsolete then all the festivals that were in it are also obsolete. There is no reason for us to celebrate anything in that regard seeing as though Jesus changed the reality of how we live for God now. Paul does tell us the keeping the pass over under the new auspices of Jesus is the Lamb is what we should do, and that is what we do we celebrating Easter. For the Christian Easter has nothing to do with rabbits or eggs. The seven feasts that were celebrated around the time of Passover in the Old Testament and they are nkw combined under the one sacrifice of Jesus and no longer have relevance under the New Covenant.

If the OT is obsolete or irrelevant, then so is God. Good luck
to any religion built without him.

 

[Jipsah]

If the OT is obsolete or irrelevant, then so is God.

Don't set much store by the New Covenant, do you?

Good luckto any religion built without him.

Good luck getting anyone to go along with equating God to the Old Testament. Utter nonsense, unless you disregard the fact that GOD CAME HIMSELF! Not sure how strong MJs are on that point.

 

[Lord's Servant]

Well to me we as Gentiles we were never under the law to begin with

 

[SAAN]

Well to me we as Gentiles we were never under the law to begin with

And Ephesians described you as one with NO HOPE.

Ephesians 2:10-13
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

 

[Lord's Servant]

“For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.””
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:17‬ ‭NIV‬‬
“I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!””
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭2:21‬ ‭NIV‬‬

For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.””
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:14‬ ‭NIV‬‬
“It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:1, 4, 18‬ ‭NIV‬‬

 

[raaven]

Do we look to pagan holidays for Truth? God forbid. Some folks would love for pagan holidays to replace Christian observances --- tell them to get lost. Well, they already are. Jesus is Lord, to the Glory of God the Father. Easter is observed as HIS day. Christmas is observed as HIS day. NEITHER refers to godless atheistic gobbaldy-de-gook.

Actually yes it is true all the holidays of the Catholic calendar are taken from the Pagan High sabbats. Easter was taken from Beltane which is the spring equinox (turning of the year) Most of the churches holy days they didn't really have a problem with getting the peasents into the church... however Beltane created it's own problems for the church as it was the celebration of fertillity concidered so important for the blessing of the land that the royals themselves partisapated. Any man could lie with any woman anonymously the king could couple with a peasant ect and any child that resulted from a union made on Beltane was considered holy and was cared for by all

 

[raaven]

Just read and trust the Bible(IF and only IF you're willing to give up idolatry as God reveals it to you). (don't worry about customs, social events, paganism, heathenism, or anything from outside sources -- just read the BIBLE) >>
Trust Jesus and the Father in heaven, asking for wisdom and understanding.

But be ready - (if you love the truth, and seek God's Kingdom) - you're in for a BIG SURPRISE (probably a LOT of them).

for the practices of the people are worthless they cut down a tree from the forest and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. They adorn it with silver and with gold and fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter. Like a scarecrow in a cucumber field.their idols cannot speak . they must be carried because they cannot walk. Jeremiah 10;3-5 {Gods view of a christmas tree}

In a word, no.

Utter baloney.

The latter. The folks who propagate that idiocy generally forbid the observance of any feast that is centered on our Lord Christ and instead insist that only Jewish feasts that never acknowledge our Lord at all are to be kept as though we were still under the Law. They invoke made-up "history" to support their positions. I find the whole thing despicable.

In a word, no.

Utter baloney.

The latter. The folks who propagate that idiocy generally forbid the observance of any feast that is centered on our Lord Christ and instead insist that only Jewish feasts that never acknowledge our Lord at all are to be kept as though we were still under the Law. They invoke made-up "history" to support their positions. I find the whole thing despicable.

 

[raaven]

I'm afraid that I must humbly disagree. I have worshiped the pagan gods before I became a christian and yes what they say in your little film is the truth of History. Before the church got a strong foothold upon Brittion and the isles the worship of a whole pantheon of gods was deemed holy and proper not just for the peasents but for the kings as well. As a matter of fact when the king was crowned he entered into a marriage with the land itself in a beautiful pagan fertility rite. You need to do a little more research little man because you are dismissing the entire culture of England and the brittish isles from 1200 to mid 16th century.God calls us to be strong in faith He does not call us to be ignorant in our own right nor does He call on us to pass that ignorance on as knowledge to some one else who is a true seeker of wisdom

 

[Jipsah]

Actually yes it is true all the holidays of the Catholic calendar are taken from the Pagan High sabbats.

We've pretty much already sorted out that baloney, but if you want to run in a neo-pagan voice to the mix of historical fantasists, as they say in Smith County, "Gourd head on". But you'll probably want to start by noting that Beltane was generally halfway between the winter solstice and the spring equinox, and was generally a Celtic thang and thus had little if any influence on the Roman church's scheduling of the Easter/Pascha. C'mon, if you're gonna deal in fiction, you may want to make it at least slightly credible.

 

[Jipsah]

for the practices of the people are worthless they cut down a tree from the forest and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. They adorn it with silver and with gold and fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter. Like a scarecrow in a cucumber field.their idols cannot speak . they must be carried because they cannot walk. Jeremiah 10;3-5 {Gods view of a christmas tree}

They had Christmas in Jeremiah's time? Dang, who knew? Or then again, the assertion is, being anachronistic, simply made up. I reckon the latter is more likely.

 

[Jipsah]

I have worshiped the pagan gods before I became a christian

Yeah, it shows. You obviously still retain a lot of the neo-pagan hogwash, as well.

and yes what they say in your little film is the truth of History.

Neo-paganism has little or nothing to do with history of any kind, and is utterly irrelevant to Christian beliefs in any case.

 

[raaven]

Yeah, it shows. You obviously still retain a lot of the neo-pagan hogwash, as well.

Neo-paganism has little or nothing to do with history of any kind, and is utterly irrelevant to Christian beliefs in any case.

and I can see you have been christian for a long time. Completely at home in your ignorance and arrogance having never sought God in any place but your own head. I can see that any attempt at actual exchange of knowledge would be a waste of my time for I will recieve no knowledge from you only insults by which you will attempt to make me less than what I am so that you feel safe and vindicated

 

[raaven]

wow you harbor a lot of hate and rage for a christian. does attacking others make you feel that you are better then those you pretend to have a free flowing exchange of ideas with? I'm pretty sure that my bible teaches me that a soft word turns away wrath. And that if we wanted to be first then we must be last.....maybe that's whats stuck in you craw that your vast shinning intelect won't be recognized as the leading authority in heaven.

 

[Lord's Servant]

Okay actually Christmas is not pagan but has a complicated history "
Despite its popularity today, this theory of Christmas’s origins has its problems. It is not found in any ancient Christian writings, for one thing. Christian authors of the time do note a connection between the solstice and Jesus’ birth: The church father Ambrose (c. 339–397), for example, described Christ as the true sun, who outshone the fallen gods of the old order. But early Christian writers never hint at any recent calendrical engineering; they clearly don’t think the date was chosen by the church. Rather they see the coincidence as a providential sign, as natural proof that God had selected Jesus over the false pagan gods.



It’s not until the 12th century that we find the first suggestion that Jesus’ birth celebration was deliberately set at the time of pagan feasts. A marginal note on a manuscript of the writings of the Syriac biblical commentator Dionysius bar-Salibi states that in ancient times the Christmas holiday was actually shifted from January 6 to December 25 so that it fell on the same date as the pagan Sol Invictus holiday.5 In the 18th and 19th centuries, Bible scholars spurred on by the new study of comparative religions latched on to this idea.6 They claimed that because the early Christians didn’t know when Jesus was born, they simply assimilated the pagan solstice festival for their own purposes, claiming it as the time of the Messiah’s birth and celebrating it accordingly."

 

[Jipsah]

and I can see you have been christian for a long time. Completely at home in your ignorance and arrogance having never sought God in any place but your own head.

Is this where you tell me about the Goddess and the Horned God, the Old Religion (dating all the way back to the 1950s), the Burning Times (that never were), or the made-up "traditions" of the Druids (made up because they left no records to follow). Yeah, please enlighten my "ignorance" of neo-paganism. I could use the laughs.

I can see that any attempt at actual exchange of knowledge would be a waste of my time for I will recieve no knowledge from you only insults by which you will attempt to make me less than what I am so that you feel safe and vindicated

Your assertion that "Easter was taken from Beltane" demonstrated an almost complete lack of knowledge of either the pagan or the Christian feast. Your "knowledge" of the pagan feast comes from the imaginations of neo-pagans who have recreated it to their own specifications, with gobs of syncretistic bits, "high sabbats", for instance, swiped from primarily Christian or Christian-influenced sources, chucked in to make it sound "religious" to modern ears.

So no, I don't think there's much basis for an exchange of knowledge here, since I seriously doubt that you have knowledge to offer. BTW, if you'd like to check out some of the stuff I've written on Gardnerian Wicca and the later (60s-70s) neo-druid groups, lemme know. I'd be happy to share. Then again, you actually ought to be be studying the New Testament and the ECFs instead of made-up "religions".

 

[Jipsah]

wow you harbor a lot of hate and rage for a christian.

Sorry, old man, but I have a low tolerance for phony history and pseudo-Christian poppycock. If I'm too forthright for your tastes, well, as they say in Spanish, "asi es la vida".

does attacking others make you feel that you are better then those you pretend to have a free flowing exchange of ideas with?

I don't care a fig for a "free flow of ideas" when those ideas are patently untrue. I happen to favor the truth over falsehood. Weird, huh? I don't attack others, but I sure as shootin' attack their ideas if they're bogus. Isn't that what argument is about?

I'm pretty sure that my bible teaches me that a soft word turns away wrath.

I'm not really worried too much about your wrath, any more than you are of mine. <Laugh>

And that if we wanted to be first then we must be last.....maybe that's whats stuck in you craw that your vast shinning intelect won't be recognized as the leading authority in heaven.

Maybe it's just that I hate hogwash being peddled as truth in what's supposed to be a Christian discussion. You reckon?

 

[Rick Otto]

Is this where you tell me about the Goddess and the Horned God, the Old Religion (dating all the way back to the 1950s), the Burning Times (that never were), or the made-up "traditions" of the Druids (made up because they left no records to follow). Yeah, please enlighten my "ignorance" of neo-paganism. I could use the laughs.

Your assertion that "Easter was taken from Beltane" demonstrated an almost complete lack of knowledge of either the pagan or the Christian feast. Your "knowledge" of the pagan feast comes from the imaginations of neo-pagans who have recreated it to their own specifications, with gobs of syncretistic bits, "high sabbats", for instance, swiped from primarily Christian or Christian-influenced sources, chucked in to make it sound "religious" to modern ears.

So no, I don't think there's much basis for an exchange of knowledge here, since I seriously doubt that you have knowledge to offer. BTW, if you'd like to check out some of the stuff I've written on Gardnerian Wicca and the later (60s-70s) neo-druid groups, lemme know. I'd be happy to share. Then again, you actually ought to be be studying the New Testament and the ECFs instead of made-up "religions".

"made up because they left no records to follow)."

Swallowed that pretty easily.

If Jipsah doesn't get to know about it, it doesn't exist.

Yet, he attacks ideas.

With what.

 

[Rick Otto]

Sorry, old man, but I have a low tolerance for phony history and pseudo-Christian poppycock. If I'm too forthright for your tastes, well, as they say in Spanish, "asi es la vida".

I don't care a fig for a "free flow of ideas" when those ideas are patently untrue. I happen to favor the truth over falsehood. Weird, huh? I don't attack others, but I sure as shootin' attack their ideas if they're bogus. Isn't that what argument is about?

I'm not really worried too much about your wrath, any more than you are of mine. <Laugh>

Maybe it's just that I hate hogwash being peddled as truth in what's supposed to be a Christian discussion. You reckon?

I reckon there's some truth to that, but I also reckon you are prone to dismissing without investigating, and too accepting and too trusting of self appointed authorities.
That's why you bully with homespun charm that masks the hostility you got accused of.
Just my subjective opinion, brother Jipsah.
We are used to agreeing to disagree.