Ear piercing/made in God's image/"improving His creation"/?

[Starcrystal]

"Oh, is that a gun? Want to see my Smith & Wesson .38?"

Emmy actually said that to the lady who was getting ready to pierce her ears.

LOL! That's Emmy!

Is it silver or black?

Silly kids
Does this remind you of anyone?

 

[tuliplane]

Hey Shelley,

Thanks for your input. I don't think John was trying to attack you...I think he was merely participating in theological debate. As far as vanity is concerned, I don't think vanity is wearing pretty things; I think it is the obsession or spending much more time in our looks than on our hearts. God talks of Himself giving His bride jewelry and Abraham's faithful servant gave Rebekah jewelry. God just wants our true beauty not to come from disposable outward things, but the treasures we can store in heaven, however, I believe He put them here to enjoy and also, those things can greatly glorify God because only He could create such beautiful things. Even His temple was decorated with lavish items. I think anything to the extreme can be a bad thing, such as we all need money to survive, but there comes a point where someone can love money; then it's a bad thing.

Can you read John ?? where did I say ANYTHING about not taking care of your body ?? What does piercing the body have anything to do with taking care of your body ?? Use your common sense. You were just trying to figure out a way to attack what I said. Taking care of your body has nothing to do with vanity, thats common sense.

Do you have any scripture to support the prohibition of earrings?[/QUOTE]

 

[tuliplane]

what the Lord is trying to say about the earrings and flashy jewelry what it boils down to is vanity, pure vanity. Also I know as everyone does, people are going to do what they want anyway, a lot of times people are just wanting to find that one person to agree with them even if God had hung a sign on their front door saying thou shalt not but if that someone still wants to do it then finding that one person to agree then they will do it anyway. God gave us a free will to find out who loves Him enough to want to please Him and not man and since the roads in heaven are paved with gold then jewelry isnt going to be what pleases Him but I wonder sometimes how God feels when He sees His children do everything they can to get out of pleasing Him.

Thanks. This isn't really a black and white issue for me of something God has clearly said 'thou shall not'. I'm not about looking for one person to agree with me, because like I stated, there are differing viewpoints; some Christians say it's completely fine, others treat it like a sin. I wanted some input. As far as pleasing God...I really think He's looking at my thoughts and motives and not so much on if I decide to wear some earrings. I'm pretty sure God isn't that petty. Do you really think I am doing all I can to get out of pleasing God? I'm merely trying to find answers and be able to enjoy some "outward things" because my somewhat legalistic upbringing makes it difficult this day for me; I don't know what is and isn't pleasing to God sometimes.

 

[Dave-W]

Tulip - are you Jewish or do you have Jewish (blood) relatives?

 

[tuliplane]

Our pastor, Rev. R, says it's okay to have one in each ear. He also says makeup is ok as long as it is real close to our natural coloring. Jewelry is ok as long as it's small.

Tattoos are verboten unless you were away in the military and didn't get the email.

And see...that doesn't seem right to me. That seems to be "the pastor says" and not "God says". If one earring in each ear is okay, why not two or three? What makes colorful makeup wrong? Where in the Bible does it say that jewelry has to be small? I'm under the impression that the jewelry Rebekah received was not small. I'm really not trying to be argumentative here, I'm just trying to sort out man-made rules and God's rules.

 

[tuliplane]

No, not at all.

Tulip - are you Jewish or do you have Jewish (blood) relatives?

 

[Erinny]

Thanks. This isn't really a black and white issue for me of something God has clearly said 'thou shall not'. I'm not about looking for one person to agree with me, because like I stated, there are differing viewpoints; some Christians say it's completely fine, others treat it like a sin. I wanted some input. As far as pleasing God...I really think He's looking at my thoughts and motives and not so much on if I decide to wear some earrings. I'm pretty sure God isn't that petty. Do you really think I am doing all I can to get out of pleasing God? I'm merely trying to find answers and be able to enjoy some "outward things" because my somewhat legalistic upbringing makes it difficult this day for me; I don't know what is and isn't pleasing to God sometimes.

None of us truly know what is and isn't pleasing to God sometimes, so that's normal in our walks with Him. Yes, there are many viewpoints. My viewpoint is to follow your walk; don't pierce your ears yet. If you can find some nice little clip-on earrings somewhere, wear those and see.

If it feels okay and you feel like God isn't up there having a hissy, go ahead and pierce them and wear something little and tasteful at first.

By the way, this sentence was right to begin with:

"I'm pretty sure God isn't that petty."

Yep, you're pretty. Pretty inside and out because you want to please God.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

I think we shouldn't have piercings since we are told not to hurt our temple. Though if someone wants something bad enough they will twist scripture to fit their needs.

 

[tuliplane]

None of us truly know what is and isn't pleasing to God sometimes, so that's normal in our walks with Him. Yes, there are many viewpoints. My viewpoint is to follow your walk; don't pierce your ears yet. If you can find some nice little clip-on earrings somewhere, wear those and see.

If it feels okay and you feel like God isn't up there having a hissy, go ahead and pierce them and wear something little and tasteful at first.

By the way, this sentence was right to begin with:

"I'm pretty sure God isn't that petty."

Yep, you're pretty. Pretty inside and out because you want to please God.

I already have my ears pierced. I tried clipons; they hurt and I didn't like how they looked.

 

[tuliplane]

I think we shouldn't have piercings since we are told not to hurt our temple. Though if someone wants something bad enough they will twist scripture to fit their needs.

But like I said in my post, that verse about the body being the temple was specifically talking about sexual sins...sinful things we do by using our bodies. I'm pretty sure if God was so against any form of body modification He wouldn't have commanded the Israelites to get circumcised or a lifelong servant to have his ear pierced.

 

[Dave-W]

No, not at all.

OK. Then there should be no reason (theologically) to prevent you from getting an ear piercing. It has nothing to do with "improving" or "destroying" God's image. Sin already took care of that. We all carry a marred and distorted version of the image.

If you WERE Jewish, then this verse might be applicable: (a piercing is a "cut")

Leviticus 19:28 You shall not make any cuts in your body for the dead nor make any tattoo marks on yourselves: I am the Lord.

 

[tuliplane]

OK. Then there should be no reason (theologically) to prevent you from getting an ear piercing. It has nothing to do with "improving" or "destroying" God's image. Sin already took care of that. We all carry a marred and distorted version of the image.

If you WERE Jewish, then this verse might be applicable: (a piercing is a "cut")

Leviticus 19:28 You shall not make any cuts in your body for the dead nor make any tattoo marks on yourselves: I am the Lord.

Yes, I do know of that verse, but isn't is specifically talking about "for the dead", some Pagan ritual they were participating in?

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

But like I said in my post, that verse about the body being the temple was specifically talking about sexual sins...sinful things we do by using our bodies. I'm pretty sure if God was so against any form of body modification He wouldn't have commanded the Israelites to get circumcised or a lifelong servant to have his ear pierced.

Like I said many choose to twist scripture to fit/not fit their desires. Just as the LGBT twist it to show God is ok with them. Me? I don't have tattoos, piercings...etc. Now my body is not in the best condition, though most is from things beyond my control. But some of it I could control and because I don't, I am not taking care of my temple.

 

[tuliplane]

Like I said many choose to twist scripture to fit/not fit their desires. Just as the LGBT twist it to show God is ok with them. Me? I don't have tattoos, piercings...etc. Now my body is not in the best condition, though most is from things beyond my control. But some of it I could control and because I don't, I am not taking care of my temple.

Sir, I am in no way trying to twist the scriptures to fit how I want it. I'm trying to find answers and use logic. I know God doesn't contradict Himself, so it would make no sense that at one time He commanded and approved of certain things and later called it sin. Also, like I said, that verse you mentioned was strictly talking about having sex with a prostitute. For the record, I am not okay with LGBT ideas because I know that God specifically called it sin; He did not, however, call what I am asking about a sin.

 

[DiscipleHeLovesToo]

Okay, so I had this idea ingrained into me by my mother that "Your body is the temple of the Lord", so you shouldn't get your ears pierced. When I grew up, I decided to. After thinking logically about it, I realized:
1) It's not deforming the body (such as disfiguring it, or altering the function of your body in some way).
2) The verse she was referring to was specifically talking about sexual sin.
3) Motives are the most important issue here. If my motive was that I wanted to destroy something God made, then it would be sin for me to do it, but if I wanted to pierce my ears because I thought it looks pretty to wear nice earrings, then my motive isn't sinful; it's enjoying His creation. My intention was not to just stick a hole in my body for the sole reason of putting a hole there, but to allow earrings to be worn.

So, I have logical ideas as to why it can't be sinful; another reason being God commanded circumcision, piercing the ear of a servant, and also talked of giving His bride earrings (though I can't prove they were pierced earrings, it seems likely they were, knowing that ancient people in those times did have pierced ears) which was all "body modification", and if God commanded those things, it wouldn't seem He would think it a sin for small ear piercings.

Though, at times I also start having thoughts like, 'What if it is a sin?', 'We're made in the image of God, which did not include ear piercings, so maybe it's wrong.', 'It's unnatural to have holes in my ears, so maybe I'm not supposed to have them.', 'What if it's disfiguring the creation He made, since what God made is beautiful, and God saw all that He made and it was good?'

I read this on a website: "When God created the human body and soul He declared it good. Why do we need to improve on what God has already made beautiful?"

I also know that God made a lot of us creative and we enjoy beautiful things, such as jewelry, cutting our hair in different styles, dying it different colors, and painting our nails; all things that are not "natural" to the body which God did not put on us. So I started looking at it as another form of creativity/self-expression. There are differing Christian viewpoints though; some say basically the same ideas I stated, others say it is wrong and marking up our bodies, and 'we are not our own, and bought with a price', so we don't have full freedom to do what we want to it. I think that verse is talking about the actions we do with our body though? With the message something like this: 'Christ died for your sins; He purchased you, so now you want to use that body to glorify Him. Don't have immoral sex because it's using the body you're given to engage in sin.' I also glean from the verse that we aren't to use our body in other ways besides immoral sex, such as don't use your hands to punch someone and don't use your tongue to speak evil of someone, but make sure that you use your body for good. It seems that to think God meant don't pierce your ears, is superficial and God is concerned more with our actions and motives than a fashion statement?

Anyway, let me know your thoughts on this. I really want to know if it is wrong or not; sometimes I feel absolutely confident that it doesn't matter to God, and other times I start thinking it's a sin and feel guilty. Don't know if it's false guilt/legalism or conviction, if it is my mother speaking or God speaking.

Rom 14:13-23 KJV
(13) Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
(14) I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
(15) But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
(16) Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
(17) For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
(18) For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
(19) Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
(20) For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
(21) It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
(22) Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
(23) And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

 

[tuliplane]

Rom 14:13-23 KJV
(13) Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
(14) I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
(15) But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
(16) Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
(17) For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
(18) For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
(19) Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
(20) For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
(21) It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
(22) Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
(23) And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

What is the person who doubts struggles with OCD, doubting their motives a lot? It seems that so many things can then become sin if you aren't sure one way or the other.

 

[faroukfarouk]

If one earring in each ear is okay, why not two or three?

Well, exactly. Women were doing doubles and triples already quite widely in the late 70s, and today women in their 70s and 80s might well have worn doubles and triples for nearly 40 years; some intermittently, others continuously; whatever one thinks of this custom it's very well established, anyway, and hardly a novel innovation only now among young women.

Today, a young woman aged 18 who might be wondering whether to double pierce her ears (and maybe having a mom aged 40, a grandmother aged 63 and a great-grandmother aged 86 - for example) might wonder about doing it, only conceivably to discover that her grandmother and her great-grandmother had doubles and even triple ear piercings done together in the late 70s.

Whether or not one either likes or chooses doubles or triples, it's undeniably both a benign and very widespread and well established custom.

(2c...)

 

[pat34lee]

So are you advocating that we don't take care of our bodies?

Piercing is not taking care of anything, it is destructive.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Piercing is not taking care of anything, it is destructive.

It's not for everyone. Although even in the Old Testament there is the bondservant's piercing of the ear to show perpetual, willing service; and in Ezekiel 16.12 the Lord Himself give earrings to Zion.

I guess it can be constructive, at least in theory?

 

[afishamongmany]

Well, exactly. Women were doing doubles and triples already quite widely in the late 70s, and today women in their 70s and 80s might well have worn doubles and triples for nearly 40 years; some intermittently, others continuously; whatever one thinks of this custom it's very well established, anyway, and hardly a novel innovation only now among young women.

Today, a young woman aged 18 who might be wondering whether to double pierce her ears (and maybe having a mom aged 40, a grandmother aged 63 and a great-grandmother aged 86 - for example) might wonder about doing it, only conceivably to discover that her grandmother and her great-grandmother had doubles and even triple ear piercings done together in the late 70s.

Whether or not one either likes or chooses doubles or triples, it's undeniably both a benign and very widespread and well established custom.

(2c...)

Hi there faroukfarouk, This is reads more like a commercial spiel than christian advice. It may indeed be 'undeniably' a widespread established custom but it is certainly not 'undeniably' benign. Since when has widespread custom been a reliable guide to knowing the will of God?
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