Arguments for the Existence of God

[dece870717]

You are in a position to declare what other people believe or dont believe?

That is quite the claim. Where did you acquire your mind reading skills?

If the Bible is the Word of God, then it has THE say on all spiritual truths, I am simply telling you what the Bible says.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

No, it proves that atheists are in a state of self-delusion and denial about their condition, which the Bible tells us in Romans 1 at the part where it says "they suppress the truth in unrighteousness".

Or perhaps they are in a state of honest nonbelief?

I'd argue that your life is a testimony to the fact that you are not an atheist, by the fact that you live as though there are moral absolutes and that you live as though your life and others have value and meaning, which shows the ultimate inconsistency in the atheistic worldview. If this life is all that there is, then when you die, it will be as if it never was, yet atheists argue, debate, and live as though it has meaning and purpose, when the end all logical conclusion within that worldview tells us that it can't possibly have those things.

You are assuming that atheism is equivalent to nihilism. The overwhelming majority of atheists reject this premise. I am not a nihilist.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

If the Bible is the Word of God, then it has THE say on all spiritual truths, I am simply telling you what the Bible says.

You haven't established that the Bible is the word of any god. Neither have you shown that it has any meaningful spiritual truths to impart.

 

[bhsmte]

If the Bible is the Word of God, then it has THE say on all spiritual truths, I am simply telling you what the Bible says.

Sorry, no book or person can declare what i believe or dont believe. Sort of nukes free will i would think.

I understand why some need to convince themselves thisnis true though, to feel more comfortable with their personal faith beliefs.

 

[dece870717]

The Bible is wrong on this point.

And how do you know the Bible is wrong on this point, are you appealing to your own authority/experience?

The Quran has passages similar to Romans 1:18-20: verses 2:109 and 7:172. If the Muslim apologist were to adopt your line of reasoning, they would argue that you are "without excuse" for not accepting the doctrines of Islam.

And he could/should if he wants to be consistent, if he appealed to anything else he would be rejecting the authority of the Quran and calling it wrong by doing so. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make from this. I said what I said so as to explain the Christian position on that matter, as a "this is what we believe, and this passage is why we believe it"[/QUOTE]

That is premised on me believing that a God exists and knowingly feigning disbelief. I don't believe that a God exists.

There is such a thing as self-delusion and self-denial. And based on my authority, that is the state that man puts himself into and sometimes God gives people over to after a certain point.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

And how do you know the Bible is wrong on this point, are you appealing to your own authority/experience?

Given that the Bible is apparently referring to me here, at least according to you, then why wouldn't I appeal to my own experience?

And he could/should if he wants to be consistent, if he appealed to anything else he would be rejecting the authority of the Quran and calling it wrong by doing so. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make from this. I said what I said so as to explain the Christian position on that matter, as a "this is what we believe, and this passage is why we believe it"

My point was that if you are not convinced by the Muslim apologist when he or she presents this argument on you, why would you expect us to be convinced by it when you present it to us?

There is such a thing as self-delusion and self-denial. And based on my authority, that is the state that man puts himself into and sometimes God gives people over to after a certain point.

What authority?

 

[HitchSlap]

No, it proves that atheists are in a state of self-delusion and denial about their condition, which the Bible tells us in Romans 1 at the part where it says "they suppress the truth in unrighteousness".

I'd argue that your life is a testimony to the fact that you are not an atheist, by the fact that you live as though there are moral absolutes and that you live as though your life and others have value and meaning, which shows the ultimate inconsistency in the atheistic worldview. If this life is all that there is, then when you die, it will be as if it never was, yet atheists argue, debate, and live as though it has meaning and purpose, when the end all logical conclusion within that worldview tells us that it can't possibly have those things.


My authority is the Bible, if it is in fact the Word of God, it has the ultimate say on spiritual truths and all truths, I'm trying to be consistent within my worldview by appealing to the highest authority there is, opinions don't really matter in discussions like this. We are by nature evil, all you have to do to prove that is to look at a child, you don't have to teach them to lie, cheat, or steal, but they all just do it automatically, don't they? Or simply look at what humanity enjoys most, gossip, love of self, violence, adultery, stealing, and so on.

Hatred and love are best/most accurately expressed in action, not emotion.

And this proves that you have a skewed view of reality.

 

[HitchSlap]

If the Bible is the Word of God, then it has THE say on all spiritual truths, I am simply telling you what the Bible says.

How much does the bible say you can beat your slaves?

 

[dece870717]

Sorry, no book or person can declare what i believe or dont believe. Sort of nukes free will i would think.

I understand why some need to convince themselves thisnis true though, to feel more comfortable with their personal faith beliefs.

The people that do though, are only fooling themselves.

It can "if" it is the Word of God. What you really believe and don't believe can be shown/pointed out by someone based on your actions, reactions and the way you live your life. Nobody truly has free will, the only one truly free is God, everything about you is a product of your parents, culture, and environment. Everything you do is either manipulated or coerced by the external world around you.

 

[dece870717]

How much does the bible say you can beat your slaves?

This is something I posted somewhere else about this topic.

"In regards to slavery, people in slavery of Old Testament times would sometimes sell themselves into slavery because of things like unpayable debts, or because of the benefits, if you were a slave, your master provided all your needs, so if you were beggar poor with no means to provide yourself with anything, slavery was a wonderful option. This is what I hate about people bringing up the slavery issue, they do not take the historical context into account. The Old Testament also had laws about slaves, like if you killed one, you would be killed, so slaves were equal in value in terms of human life.

"Deu 24:7 "If a man is found stealing one of his brothers of the people of Israel, and if he treats him as a slave or sells him, then that thief shall die. So you shall purge the evil from your midst. "
"Exodus 21:20 "When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. "
Exodus 21:26 "When a man strikes the eye of his slave, male or female, and destroys it, he shall let the slave go free because of his eye.
Exodus 21:27 If he knocks out the tooth of his slave, male or female, he shall let the slave go free because of his tooth. "

The last two verses show that punishment for a slave was not inhumane, because if you punished them too harshly you had to let them go free. Does that sound like the slavery that we knew of in America? And yet people try to make a case against the Bible because of slavery, because they think the slavery of the Bible is the same as the slavery of recent times, this is argument from ignorance."

For more information on this subject you can watch this half hour video.

 

[Chriliman]

If the Bible is the Word of God, then it has THE say on all spiritual truths, I am simply telling you what the Bible says.

Scripture states that the word of God became flesh. It does not state that the word of God became the Bible.

God speaks through all creation, He is not limited to written words on paper or on a computer screen for that matter

Don't get me wrong, the Bible contains scripture and understanding scripture can lead to being born again in Christ, but it isn't the Bible that does this, it is God's life giving Spirit.

 

[HitchSlap]

This is something I posted somewhere else about this topic.

"In regards to slavery, people in slavery of Old Testament times would sometimes sell themselves into slavery because of things like unpayable debts, or because of the benefits, if you were a slave, your master provided all your needs, so if you were beggar poor with no means to provide yourself with anything, slavery was a wonderful option. This is what I hate about people bringing up the slavery issue, they do not take the historical context into account. The Old Testament also had laws about slaves, like if you killed one, you would be killed, so slaves were equal in value in terms of human life.

"Deu 24:7 "If a man is found stealing one of his brothers of the people of Israel, and if he treats him as a slave or sells him, then that thief shall die. So you shall purge the evil from your midst. "
"Exodus 21:20 "When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. "
Exodus 21:26 "When a man strikes the eye of his slave, male or female, and destroys it, he shall let the slave go free because of his eye.
Exodus 21:27 If he knocks out the tooth of his slave, male or female, he shall let the slave go free because of his tooth. "

The last two verses show that punishment for a slave was not inhumane, because if you punished them too harshly you had to let them go free. Does that sound like the slavery that we knew of in America? And yet people try to make a case against the Bible because of slavery, because they think the slavery of the Bible is the same as the slavery of recent times, this is argument from ignorance."

For more information on this subject you can watch this half hour video.

Do you own slaves?

For more information on slavery in the bible, here's a link for you:
http://godisimaginary.com/i13.htm

 

[dece870717]

You haven't established that the Bible is the word of any god. Neither have you shown that it has any meaningful spiritual truths to impart.

I have to leave right now, but I can leave you with three videos that I always try to share, "Ultimate Proof of Creation" , "Nuclear Strength Apologetics Part 1" , and "Why you can believe the Bible" if you have already fully watched those videos then I really can't add anything.

 

[bhsmte]

It can "if" it is the Word of God. What you really believe and don't believe can be shown/pointed out by someone based on your actions, reactions and the way you live your life. Nobody truly has free will, the only one truly free is God, everything about you is a product of your parents, culture, and environment. Everything you do is either manipulated or coerced by the external world around you.

What god?

And please demonstrate the bible is the word of god with something other than saying; the bible says so.

Again, if you want to know what people believenor dont believe, ask them.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I have to leave right now, but I can leave you with three videos that I always try to share, "Ultimate Proof of Creation" , "Nuclear Strength Apologetics Part 1" , and "Why you can believe the Bible" if you have already fully watched those videos then I really can't add anything.

This is a philosophy discussion forum. If you present material from other sources, you should at least be willing to discuss the content and, preferably, summarise the main points. If we all simply posted links to books, articles, and videos without making any effort to link them to the discussion at hand, then this would cease to function as a forum.

 

[Colter]

I don't hate god. I don't believe that there is a god.

That's your belief about the universe that you have such a difficult time acknowledging.

 

[HitchSlap]

then I really can't add anything.

I believe you.

ETA: It might be a little more meaningful for everyone involved if you actually discussed ideas, rather than your tack of preachy preachy.
This approach seems counterproductive to me.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

That's your belief about the universe that you have such a difficult time acknowledging.

What are you trying to say? I'm not sure I follow.

 

[HitchSlap]

This is a philosophy discussion forum. If you present material from other sources, you should at least be willing to discuss the content and, preferably, summarise the main points. If we all simply posted links to books, articles, and videos without making any effort to link them to the discussion at hand, then this would cease to function as a forum.

Exactly. I clicked on the second link, just for kicks and giggles, saw it was Jason Lisle, and immediately clicked out.

 

[bhsmte]

That's your belief about the universe that you have such a difficult time acknowledging.

What???