Arguments for the Existence of God

[Eudaimonist]

I'd like to see that argument. Something tells me old Cornelius isn't a scientist.

Van Til is a presuppositionalist following in the footsteps of Stoic presups who argued for Zeus.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Ana the Ist]

Van Til is a presuppositionalist following in the footsteps of Stoic presups who argued for Zeus.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Really?

For some reason I didn't realize Cornelius was a Greek name. "All arguments are circular" sounds like a rather difficult point to make.

Thanks Mark.

 

[Eudaimonist]

For some reason I didn't realize Cornelius was a Greek name.

It's not. I'm saying that presuppositionalism has its origin in Stoic thought. The Stoics were trying to ground their own Logic in a pagan theological concept. It always amuses me when I see Christians trying to do the same thing.

In any case, Cornelius Van Til was not a scientist. At best, he was a philosopher/theologian.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Ana the Ist]

It's not. I'm saying that presuppositionalism has its origin in Stoic thought. The Stoics were trying to ground their own Logic in a pagan theological concept. That always amuses me when I see Christians trying to do the same thing.

In any case, Cornelius Van Til was not a scientist. At best, he was a philosopher/theologian.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Ahh...gotcha.

 

[Colter]

I don't think coincidence is a good word....gradual natural processes might be more accurate.

Regardless though, what is "design" and what would be an example of something not "designed" Colter?

The universe was designed by its creator. Anything unintended by mind would be not designed, more of a byproduct or consequence of other designs.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

The universe was designed by its creator.

Do you have evidence for this?

 

[Colter]

Do you have evidence for this?

Yes, I have enough evidence to suit me. It comes by way off common sense that is obscured by pride in the Atheist. Do you have evidence for your belief in a godless universe?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Yes, I have enough evidence to suit me. It comes by way off common sense that is obscured by pride in the Atheist.

You'll need to elaborate. What are you saying?

Do you have evidence for your belief?

What belief?

 

[Colter]

You'll need to elaborate. What are you saying?

What belief?

Look, lets not cover all this again. The creation of life is obvious to me, Its not obvious to you. You found errors in Christianity, of which there are many, you left, now you stuck around to promote whatever it is you believe about the universe now. Shall we just not waste each others time????

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Look, lets not cover all this again. The creation of life is obvious to me, Its not obvious to you. You found errors in Christianity, of which there are many, you left, now you stuck around to promote whatever it is you believe about the universe now. Shall we just not waste each others time????

You're only wasting time by making baseless accusations of pride while refusing to present your case.

 

[Colter]

You're only wasting time by making baseless accusations of pride while refusing to present your case.

One can't describe color to the blind. When you get tired of your own BS then your mind can open and the spirit can move in. Until then you literally can't be reached no matter how eloquent the appeal. You have become hostile to Jesus and his Father.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

One can't describe color to the blind. When you get tired of your own BS then your mind can open and the spirit can move in. Until then you literally can't be reached no matter how eloquent the appeal. You have become hostile to Jesus and his Father.

Do you have a case to present or not, Colter? If not, then you are wasting everyone's time by continuing to post in this thread.

 

[Colter]

Do you have a case to present or not, Colter? If not, then you are wasting everyone's time by continuing to post in this thread.

I repeat, no case can be presented to those who hate God.

"Look, lets not cover all this again. The creation of life is obvious to me, Its not obvious to you. You found errors in Christianity, of which there are many, you left, now you stuck around to promote whatever it is you believe about the universe now. Shall we just not waste each others time????"

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I repeat, no case can be presented to those who hate God.

I don't hate god. I don't believe that there is a god.

 

[dece870717]

I don't hate god. I don't believe that there is a god.

You need to try to understand that from the Christian perspective, there is no such thing as an atheist, the Bible does not recognize atheism. Romans:1 18-32 tells us that everyone knows that there is a God, that they have no excuse for not believing, and that people suppress the knowledge they have of Him in unrighteousness (love of sin).

The biblical view of man is that the nature/essence of man and love for immorality, causes him to be biased against God, so as to cause him to wilfully suppress/reason away from Him in any way possible, to avoid His obvious existence, so as to not have to submit to His rule and authority over their life.

That being said, what better way is there to show hatred than to treat someone you know exists, as if they don't?

 

[Eudaimonist]

You need to try to understand that from the Christian perspective, there is no such thing as an atheist, the Bible does not recognize atheism.

That neatly disproves the Bible right there, since atheists do in fact exist, and I know this because I can see this in my own personal experience as an atheist!

The biblical view of man is that the nature/essence of man and love for immorality, causes him to be biased against God, so as to cause him to wilfully suppress/reason away from Him in any way possible, to avoid His obvious existence, so as to not have to submit to His rule and authority over their life.

Yeah, yeah. It's a very convenient doctrine. "If you disagree with me, that's because you are evil".

That being said, what better way is there to show hatred than to treat someone you know exists, as if they don't?

That wouldn't be evidence of hatred. It's ambiguous.

Or is your lack of stated belief in Odin evidence that you actually believe in the existence of Odin and hate him?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[bhsmte]

You need to try to understand that from the Christian perspective, there is no such thing as an atheist, the Bible does not recognize atheism. Romans:1 18-32 tells us that everyone knows that there is a God, that they have no excuse for not believing, and that people suppress the knowledge they have of Him in unrighteousness (love of sin).

The biblical view of man is that the nature/essence of man and love for immorality, causes him to be biased against God, so as to cause him to wilfully suppress/reason away from Him in any way possible, to avoid His obvious existence, so as to not have to submit to His rule and authority over their life.

That being said, what better way is there to show hatred than to treat someone you know exists, as if they don't?

You are in a position to declare what other people believe or dont believe?

That is quite the claim. Where did you acquire your mind reading skills?

 

[HitchSlap]

You need to try to understand that from the Christian perspective, there is no such thing as an atheist, the Bible does not recognize atheism. Romans:1 18-32 tells us that everyone knows that there is a God, that they have no excuse for not believing, and that people suppress the knowledge they have of Him in unrighteousness (love of sin).

The biblical view of man is that the nature/essence of man and love for immorality, causes him to be biased against God, so as to cause him to wilfully suppress/reason away from Him in any way possible, to avoid His obvious existence, so as to not have to submit to His rule and authority over their life.

That being said, what better way is there to show hatred than to treat someone you know exists, as if they don't?

I'm an atheist, what would you like to know?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

You need to try to understand that from the Christian perspective, there is no such thing as an atheist, the Bible does not recognize atheism. Romans:1 18-32 tells us that everyone knows that there is a God, that they have no excuse for not believing, and that people suppress the knowledge they have of Him in unrighteousness (love of sin).

The Bible is wrong on this point.

The biblical view of man is that the nature/essence of man and love for immorality, causes him to be biased against God, so as to cause him to wilfully suppress/reason away from Him in any way possible, to avoid His obvious existence, so as to not have to submit to His rule and authority over their life.

The Quran has passages similar to Romans 1:18-20: verses 2:109 and 7:172. If the Muslim apologist were to adopt your line of reasoning, they would argue that you are "without excuse" for not accepting the doctrines of Islam.

YThat being said, what better way is there to show hatred than to treat someone you know exists, as if they don't?

That is premised on me believing that a God exists and knowingly feigning disbelief. I don't believe that a God exists.

 

[dece870717]

That neatly disproves the Bible right there, since atheists do in fact exist, and I know this because I can see this in my own personal experience as an atheist!


Yeah, yeah. It's a very convenient doctrine. "If you disagree with me, that's because you are evil".


That wouldn't be evidence of hatred.


eudaimonia,

Mark

No, it proves that atheists are in a state of self-delusion and denial about their condition, which the Bible tells us in Romans 1 at the part where it says "they suppress the truth in unrighteousness".

I'd argue that your life is a testimony to the fact that you are not an atheist, by the fact that you live as though there are moral absolutes and that you live as though your life and others have value and meaning, which shows the ultimate inconsistency in the atheistic worldview. If this life is all that there is, then when you die, it will be as if it never was, yet atheists argue, debate, and live as though it has meaning and purpose, when the end all logical conclusion within that worldview tells us that it can't possibly have those things.


My authority is the Bible, if it is in fact the Word of God, it has the ultimate say on spiritual truths and all truths, I'm trying to be consistent within my worldview by appealing to the highest authority there is, opinions don't really matter in discussions like this. We are by nature evil, all you have to do to prove that is to look at a child, you don't have to teach them to lie, cheat, or steal, but they all just do it automatically, don't they? Or simply look at what humanity enjoys most, gossip, love of self, violence, adultery, stealing, and so on.

Hatred and love are best/most accurately expressed in action, not emotion.