Yeshua tempted...

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gadar perets

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God Cannot Be Tempted. Yeshua Was Tempted. Therefore, Yeshua was not God is the argument ...

James 1:13, "Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone." ...

Therefore, it is fair to say that Yeshua could have been truly tempted. Could Yeshua fail at His mission by allowing the human side of Him give in to temptation just like the rest of mankind?
One of the problems is that those who believe Yeshua is "God" appeal to his "emptying" himself of his divinity and that is why he seems less than divine at times. They blame it on his "human side". On the other hand, when he does something miraculous like heal the lame, raise the dead, forgive sin, etc., they say it was because he is "God". What happens to the "emptying" argument when he works miracles?

As I understand it, he is not "God" as his Father YHWH is "God". YHWH is the ONLY true Elohim (John 17:3). Yeshua did not include himself in that statement. Yes, Yeshua is an elohim, but only in the sense of Psalm 82:6 as other humans were. When he seemed to be less than divine, it was because he was 100% human. When he seemed to be divine, it was because his Father was doing the works through him (John 14:10; Acts 10:38).
 
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BukiRob

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As you are the product of the union between your mother and father... meaning you take both good and bad from both so to is it with Yeshua.

He was 100% man but his spirit was 100% Elohim. He was like us but not like us. He knew from a very early age who he was and what his purpose was. He was truly LED by the Spirit. His revelation and clarity was without the rose colored glasses that Paul speaks of. He saw things clearly.

But he still was man. He was hungry, thirsty and would tire. He was tempted as we are but without sinning. Yeshua said that if you have seen him, you have seen the Father. For he and the Father are echad
 
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gadar perets

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He was 100% man but his spirit was 100% Elohim.
Where does it say the latter? He was definitely 100% man and therefore had the spirit of a man just as any human male does. He was also filled with the Holy Spirit without measure. Therefore, he had 100% of the Father's Spirit in him. That did not make him 100% Elohim, but 100% of the Spirit of YHWH Elohim was in him.
Yeshua said that if you have seen him, you have seen the Father.
He was the express image of the Father, not the Father himself. They have the same character.

For he and the Father are echad
What verse are you referring to that uses "echad"?

Yeshua said, "I and my Father are one." (John 10:30). Does that mean they are the same being? Yeshua said something similar in John 17:22, "And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:"​

Here again, Yeshua says he and the Father are one. But he also prays that his followers will be one in the same sense that he and Yahweh are one. That is a oneness of mind, purpose, and will, not a oneness of being.
 
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BukiRob

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Where does it say the latter? He was definitely 100% man and therefore had the spirit of a man just as any human male does. He was also filled with the Holy Spirit without measure. Therefore, he had 100% of the Father's Spirit in him. That did not make him 100% Elohim, but 100% of the Spirit of YHWH Elohim was in him.

He was the express image of the Father, not the Father himself. They have the same character.


What verse are you referring to that uses "echad"?

Yeshua said, "I and my Father are one." (John 10:30). Does that mean they are the same being? Yeshua said something similar in John 17:22, "And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:"​

Here again, Yeshua says he and the Father are one. But he also prays that his followers will be one in the same sense that he and Yahweh are one. That is a oneness of mind, purpose, and will, not a oneness of being.


No He did not have the spirit of man.

Luke 1:35 The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.

The physical part of Messiah is from the DNA of Yeshua's mother. The Spirit is from the Holy Spirit and is DIVINE. Yeshua did NOT have a human spirit
 
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gadar perets

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No He did not have the spirit of man.

Luke 1:35 The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.

The physical part of Messiah is from the DNA of Yeshua's mother. The Spirit is from the Holy Spirit and is DIVINE. Yeshua did NOT have a human spirit
Luke 1:35 says nothing about Yeshua having a divine Spirit. It simply says the Spirit came upon Miriam. The rest you read into the text. If Yeshua did not have a human spirit, then he was not human. The fact is, he had an inherent human spirit and was filled with a divine Spirit. The same is true of all believers that have received the Holy Spirit.
 
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BukiRob

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Luke 1:35 says nothing about Yeshua having a divine Spirit. It simply says the Spirit came upon Miriam. The rest you read into the text. If Yeshua did not have a human spirit, then he was not human. The fact is, he had an inherent human spirit and was filled with a divine Spirit. The same is true of all believers that have received the Holy Spirit.
Im sorry but this is an intellectual cope out.

Miriam was a virgin. She was human. She conceived as a result of what occured.

Do I really need to explain the biology of this to you? It is biologically IMPOSSIBLE for a female to produce a male without Male DNA. Females have 2 X chromosomes. In order for a male to be born the Y chromosome has to be introduced. All men are XY. The Y chromosome needed to have a baby boy was introduced by the Ruach HaKodesh. It is how Yeshua was NOT like any other man in that he was not conceived in sin. His spirit was NOT of man but of his Father.

The biology of this matches with what scripture tells us about Yeshua's nature.
 
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Aharon Ben Yahuveh

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I agree with Buki. YAHUSHUA was fully man and fully GOD, therefore as man HE was tempted, but as GOD HE would not have fallen to the temptation. And the thing is, HE not only didn't fall to temptation, HE countered the temptation with the Sword of the SPIRIT, the word of YAHVEH. :D
 
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newlightseven

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gadar perets

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Im sorry but this is an intellectual cope out.

Miriam was a virgin. She was human. She conceived as a result of what occured.
I agree.

Do I really need to explain the biology of this to you? It is biologically IMPOSSIBLE for a female to produce a male without Male DNA. Females have 2 X chromosomes. In order for a male to be born the Y chromosome has to be introduced. All men are XY. The Y chromosome needed to have a baby boy was introduced by the Ruach HaKodesh. It is how Yeshua was NOT like any other man in that he was not conceived in sin.
I agree. In fact, that is exactly why Yeshua was not a spirit being living in heaven that became a man. The Father spoke the Son into existence (the Word was made flesh) by creating the necessary Y chromosome.

His spirit was NOT of man but of his Father.
He had a human spirit that was created by the Divine Spirit.

The biology of this matches with what scripture tells us about Yeshua's nature.
I agree. His human nature was created by combining a human egg with a human Y chromosome to yield a 100% human.
 
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gadar perets

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I agree with Buki. YAHUSHUA was fully man and fully GOD, therefore as man HE was tempted, but as GOD HE would not have fallen to the temptation. And the thing is, HE not only didn't fall to temptation, HE countered the temptation with the Sword of the SPIRIT, the word of YAHVEH. :D
So you have him being man and God at the same time. What happened to the doctrine of his "emptying" himself of his supposed divinity?
 
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BukiRob

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I agree.


I agree. In fact, that is exactly why Yeshua was not a spirit being living in heaven that became a man. The Father spoke the Son into existence (the Word was made flesh) by creating the necessary Y chromosome.


He had a human spirit that was created by the Divine Spirit.


I agree. His human nature was created by combining a human egg with a human Y chromosome to yield a 100% human.


I disagree. He was man as a physical being. That meant that as a physical being he dealt with all of the aches, pains and desires that come from the fleshly body we dwell in.

He was spirit was divine. If Yeshua was a man filled with the Holy Spirit then it would have been a SIN to worship him and he NEVER prevented that. The Leper in Matthew 8 returned after presenting himself as directed and the text tells us that the Leper worshiped Yeshua.

After Yeshua walked on the water the disciples worshiped him. If Yeshua was merely "filled with the Holy Spirit" allowing anyone to worship him would have been the greatest of all sins a jew could commit.

Being the personification of Love he sought to redeem us and laid aside all of his glory, his station of King of kings and came to us as we are. Came to show us HOW to love. Show us what Love is and how to walk uprightly full of love and mercy.
 
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BukiRob

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So you have him being man and God at the same time. What happened to the doctrine of his "emptying" himself of his supposed divinity?
You are misrepresenting what Paul is saying Philippians 2:5Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Yeshua emptied himself of his GLORY, his station and position as creator. He took on the form of a servant a lowly man born into a family of the most humblest of means.
 
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Aharon Ben Yahuveh

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So you have him being man and God at the same time. What happened to the doctrine of his "emptying" himself of his supposed divinity?

That is not a doctrine. The doctrine you are misrepresenting is that YAHUSHUA emptied HIMSELF of HIS Heavenly glory and position ***FOR A TIME***. Remember YAHUSHUA prayed in the garden and said in John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
 
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gadar perets

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I disagree. He was man as a physical being. That meant that as a physical being he dealt with all of the aches, pains and desires that come from the fleshly body we dwell in.

He was spirit was divine. If Yeshua was a man filled with the Holy Spirit then it would have been a SIN to worship him and he NEVER prevented that. The Leper in Matthew 8 returned after presenting himself as directed and the text tells us that the Leper worshiped Yeshua.

After Yeshua walked on the water the disciples worshiped him. If Yeshua was merely "filled with the Holy Spirit" allowing anyone to worship him would have been the greatest of all sins a jew could commit.

Being the personification of Love he sought to redeem us and laid aside all of his glory, his station of King of kings and came to us as we are. Came to show us HOW to love. Show us what Love is and how to walk uprightly full of love and mercy.
The Greek word translated “worship” is “proskuneo” meaning; to kiss, like a dog licking his master’s hand); to fawn or crouch to, that is, (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore). It is the same word used in Exodus 34:14 in the Septuagint for the worship of YHWH.

Revelation 3:9 - Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.​

This is being said by Yeshua to the believers comprising the Philadelphia church. A time will come in the future when Yeshua will command his followers to be worshipped as well. Now, should we consider these men to be “Gods” simply because they are worshipped? No. Neither should we consider the Son to be “God” simply because he was worshipped.

Yeshua and the believers in the Philadelphia church are not being worshipped as YHWH (God), but as YHWH’s representatives. They are being bowed down to and given honor as such.

Much confusion concerning “worship” arises from the fact that the Hebrew and Greek words for translated “worship” were translated differently when the “worship” was directed toward men.

The Hebrew word translated “worship” is Strong’s#7812 – “shachah” meaning; to depress, that is, prostrate (especially reflexively in homage to royalty or God). Here are the various ways it was translated in the KJV; bow (self) down, crouch, fall down (flat), humbly beseech, do (make) obeisance, do reverence, make to stoop, worship.

An example of “shachah” from one man to another is found in Genesis 23:7;

And Abraham stood up, and bowed himself to the people of the land, even to the children of Heth.​

In Gen 33:3, Jacob bowed down to Esau;

But he himself passed on ahead of them and bowed down to the ground seven times, until he came near to his brother.​

What if “shachah” was translated “worship” here instead of “bowed down”? Would that make Esau “God”? Of course not. Neither does Yeshua receiving “worship” make him “God”.

Yeshua himself will command men to worship his followers. That does not make his followers “God”. They will be worshipped” or “bowed down to” as representatives of Yahweh and Yeshua.

Yeshua is deserving of our “worship” as we bow down to him, honor him, and adore him. However, it is Almighty Yahweh alone that we are to worship as the one true God.
 
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gadar perets

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You are misrepresenting what Paul is saying Philippians 2:5Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Yeshua emptied himself of his GLORY, his station and position as creator. He took on the form of a servant a lowly man born into a family of the most humblest of means.
I represented the "emptying" from a Christian point of view who clearly say he emptied himself of his divinity. If you want to try a separate divinity from glory, have at it. The two cannot be separated. If he continued to be "God", then he still had "glory" as "God". In fact, that is exactly what you are doing. You attribute his miracles to his deity thereby glorifying him as "God".
 
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gadar perets

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That is not a doctrine. The doctrine you are misrepresenting is that YAHUSHUA emptied HIMSELF of HIS Heavenly glory and position ***FOR A TIME***. Remember YAHUSHUA prayed in the garden and said in John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Please tell me when "***FOR A TIME***" started and ended.
 
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BukiRob

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I represented the "emptying" from a Christian point of view who clearly say he emptied himself of his divinity. If you want to try a separate divinity from glory, have at it. The two cannot be separated. If he continued to be "God", then he still had "glory" as "God". In fact, that is exactly what you are doing. You attribute his miracles to his deity thereby glorifying him as "God".
Not at all.

He took on the role of the suffering servant and it in no way precluded him being Divine.

I refuse to accept this nonsense that Yeshua was "just a man"
 
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BukiRob

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The Greek word translated “worship” is “proskuneo” meaning; to kiss, like a dog licking his master’s hand); to fawn or crouch to, that is, (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore). It is the same word used in Exodus 34:14 in the Septuagint for the worship of YHWH.

Revelation 3:9 - Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.​

This is being said by Yeshua to the believers comprising the Philadelphia church. A time will come in the future when Yeshua will command his followers to be worshipped as well. Now, should we consider these men to be “Gods” simply because they are worshipped? No. Neither should we consider the Son to be “God” simply because he was worshipped.

Yeshua and the believers in the Philadelphia church are not being worshipped as YHWH (God), but as YHWH’s representatives. They are being bowed down to and given honor as such.

Much confusion concerning “worship” arises from the fact that the Hebrew and Greek words for translated “worship” were translated differently when the “worship” was directed toward men.

The Hebrew word translated “worship” is Strong’s#7812 – “shachah” meaning; to depress, that is, prostrate (especially reflexively in homage to royalty or God). Here are the various ways it was translated in the KJV; bow (self) down, crouch, fall down (flat), humbly beseech, do (make) obeisance, do reverence, make to stoop, worship.

An example of “shachah” from one man to another is found in Genesis 23:7;

And Abraham stood up, and bowed himself to the people of the land, even to the children of Heth.​

In Gen 33:3, Jacob bowed down to Esau;

But he himself passed on ahead of them and bowed down to the ground seven times, until he came near to his brother.​

What if “shachah” was translated “worship” here instead of “bowed down”? Would that make Esau “God”? Of course not. Neither does Yeshua receiving “worship” make him “God”.

Yeshua himself will command men to worship his followers. That does not make his followers “God”. They will be worshipped” or “bowed down to” as representatives of Yahweh and Yeshua.

Yeshua is deserving of our “worship” as we bow down to him, honor him, and adore him. However, it is Almighty Yahweh alone that we are to worship as the one true God.

Yeshua forgave sin. Only G-d forgives the sins of another.

2 A few days later, when Jesus again entered Capernaum, the people heard that he had come home. 2 They gathered in such large numbers that there was no room left, not even outside the door, and he preached the word to them. 3 Some men came, bringing to him a paralyzed man, carried by four of them. 4 Since they could not get him to Jesus because of the crowd, they made an opening in the roof above Jesus by digging through it and then lowered the mat the man was lying on. 5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”

6 Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7 “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

8 Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, “Why are you thinking these things? 9 Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’? 10 But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the man, 11 “I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.” 12 He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying, “We have never seen anything like this!”


As for your ridiculous attempt to marginalize the worship of Yeshua, the disciples did not do that they flat out, straight up WORSHIPED him.

Furthermore proskuneó(4352) means to do reverence to
Short Definition: I worship
Definition: I go down on my knees to, do obeisance to, worship.

By reading the text there are several examples of people falling to their knees and worshiping Yeshua. We see the same action occurring when angels visit and each time the Angel stops the person from doing this.

When Peter walks on the water and starts to sink in Matthew 14:33 prosekynēsan

is defined and translated here as WORSHIP, not merely prostrating or paying homage too.... Yeshua did not stop them or prevent them from doing this....

And the greatest of all evidence is when Yeshua is speaking to the high priest when question as to whether he was the messiah? Yeshua answered him by saying I AM.

Mark 14:64 62 And Jesus said, “I am; and you shall see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.”63 Tearing his clothes, the high priest said, “What further need do we have of witnesses? 64 “You have heard the blasphemy; how does it seem to you?” And they all condemned Him to be deserving of death.
 
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danny ski

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Let's pretend there are evil angels and Jesus was indeed a god. How far backwards does one have to bend to explain how is it possible that a creature that was in the presence of Gd, in all his glory, can tempt him with ruling over some ancient kingdoms? On Earth. It's a silly premise.
 
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