U.S. Suicide Rate Surges to a 30-Year High

[Cimorene]

I don't think the right to bear arms is part of the growing suicide rate.

On the r side of the page with the article in the OP there's this article: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/u...atedCoverage&region=Marginalia&pgtype=article

It says this

The chances of dying rise drastically when a gun is present, because guns are so much more likely to be lethal, said Dr. Matthew Miller, associate director of the Harvard center. Guns are used in more than half of all suicide fatalities, but account for just 1 percent of all self-harm injuries treated in hospital emergency rooms, a rough proxy for suicide attempts, Dr. Miller said. Overdoses, which account for about 80 percent of suicide attempts, are responsible for just 14 percent of fatalities.

“If you use a gun,” Dr. Miller said, “you usually don’t get a second chance.”

 

[PreachersWife2004]

On the r side of the page with the article in the OP there's this article: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/u...atedCoverage&region=Marginalia&pgtype=article

It says this

Again, I don't think it's the right to bear arms. The friends I had who used a gun to kill themselves didn't own one.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Then, do you believe that suicide rates are on the increase due to celebrations of death via abortion and euthanasia only in the civilian community, but does not apply to the military suicides.

That was me talking about abortion and euthanasia, not Rambot.

 

[JustOneWay]

That was me talking about abortion and euthanasia, not Rambot.

I know. I asked a question. Is that a problem?

 

[rambot]

Then, do you believe that suicide rates are on the increase due to celebrations of death via abortion and euthanasia only in the civilian community, but does not apply to the military suicides.

Please never assume that because I disagree with you that I agree with Preacher's wife.
Simply put, I believe that the trauma that soldiers ensure is not something civilians, as a general rule, have been exposed to. Given that, making a straight across comparison and equating the same cause to two groups that have very different experiences that could be informing the option of suicide, doesn't seem consistent to me.

 

[rambot]

Since we're all just kinda taking stabs in the dark, here is MY stab in the dark.

The rugged individualism we see in the states that is celebrated, is slowly stressing or tearing the fabric of communities and people are feeling more disconnected from each other. As people feel that disconnection, they feel a greater sense of loneliness and an inability to cope because they feel they are always on their own. The growing sense of distrust amongst Americans speaks highly to this in my mind.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I know. I asked a question. Is that a problem?

It was just odd that you connected something that had ZERO to do with his post. I thought it was a misquote. My apologies.

Please never assume that because I disagree with you that I agree with Preacher's wife.
Simply put, I believe that the trauma that soldiers ensure is not something civilians, as a general rule, have been exposed to. Given that, making a straight across comparison and equating the same cause to two groups that have very different experiences that could be informing the option of suicide, doesn't seem consistent to me.

I agree with this, too. I am thinking that's probably why this study may not have military suicides included. I just can't tell if it did or didn't.

Since we're all just kinda taking stabs in the dark, here is MY stab in the dark.

The rugged individualism we see in the states that is celebrated, is slowly stressing or tearing the fabric of communities and people are feeling more disconnected from each other. As people feel that disconnection, they feel a greater sense of loneliness and an inability to cope because they feel they are always on their own. The growing sense of distrust amongst Americans speaks highly to this in my mind.

I could get behind this as well. We joke and say "there's an app for that" for just about anything, and there's even apps for people feeling suicidal, but where is the real human contact there?

 

[nightflight]

Since we're all just kinda taking stabs in the dark, here is MY stab in the dark.

The rugged individualism we see in the states that is celebrated, is slowly stressing or tearing the fabric of communities and people are feeling more disconnected from each other. As people feel that disconnection, they feel a greater sense of loneliness and an inability to cope because they feel they are always on their own. The growing sense of distrust amongst Americans speaks highly to this in my mind.

There was a book written about this very thing, called "Bowling By Yourself" or something like that.

 

[Arcangl86]

There was a book written about this very thing, called "Bowling By Yourself" or something like that.

"Bowling Alone." It's on my list of books to read because the phenomenon it talks about effects several organizations I care deeply about.

 

[Murby]

This is a culture that celebrates death via abortion and euthanasia.

No one "celebrates" abortion.. There are no "abortion clubs" or "abortion parties".. Not in reality, not in Hollywood movies.
Just because someone does something you don't agree with does not mean they are proud of it or celebrate it.

Is this another one of those arguments that's not based on data?

People live their entire lives believing in various religions without empirical evidence.. Do you think they're going to start pulling out data to rely on all of a sudden?

We encourage people to "die with dignity".

No one is encouraging anyone, but as a society, we are recognizing a persons right to end their suffering when there is no technological solution.. While we do encourage our lawmakers to change the laws, no one is passing out flyers or visiting sick people trying to get them to off themselves.. Making exaggerated claims about something you don't agree with tends to have a backfire effect. It would be better to stick to the reality and the data.

The abortion rate might be going down, but abortion is now more than ever in the limelight as something to be PROUD of. Remember the hashtag #shoutyourabortion ? Tell me that places value on life in ANY way.

There are people who are proud of raping women.. people who are proud of killing others for no reason.. Just because some idiot comes up with some socially messed up way of exclaiming they did something, does not mean the rest of society, or any significant segment, is proud of it or encourages it.

As for the gun fetish, most of my friends who have committed suicide over the years didn't use a gun. One or two did. None of them actually owned a gun, believe it or not.

I'll never understand why anyone would want to commit suicide with a gun.. Its very messy.. Helium is a much more enjoyable way of going.

So, since y'all are so brilliant, why don't YOU tell us why the suicide rate suddenly jumped?
Ejucate us stoopid intellectually dishonest people.

That's an easy one.. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the great depression of 2008/2009 caused a lot of suffering. In fact, I'd bet if they compensated for the spike due to the big crash, the numbers would still be going down.

 

[Cimorene]

Again, I don't think it's the right to bear arms. The friends I had who used a gun to kill themselves didn't own one.

Maybe not the rights but the fact is that guns do contribute to suicide. The only person I know who killed himself did use a gun. It belonged to his parents. His mom found him.

 

[GraceDriven]

We are becoming a more secular society and taking faith out of the equation leaves people in despair when everything seems to be falling apart. It's hard to make sense in all of this mess.

 

[Murby]

Maybe not the rights but the fact is that guns do contribute to suicide.

Guns do not contribute to suicide any more than bridges, tall buildings, knives, semi-trucks, ropes or sleeping pills. They are inanimate objects, nothing more than tools.

 

[Cimorene]

Guns do not contribute to suicide any more than bridges, tall buildings, knives, semi-trucks, ropes or sleeping pills. They are inanimate objects, nothing more than tools.

Did you read the article I posted?

 

[Murby]

We are becoming a more secular society and taking faith out of the equation leaves people in despair when everything seems to be falling apart. It's hard to make sense in all of this mess.

Actually, I believe its the whole faith thing that creates all the despair. A person puts their faith into believing in something that comes advertised with a promise.. When it lets them down in their time of need, as it frequently does, it can be traumatic.. Its common to hear "God is punishing you/me", or "God must not want.....".. or "God is testing me"..

When the faith is removed, one tends to look at situations much differently.. Statistical probabilities become logical conclusions with logical solutions.. No despair, no feelings of betrayal, no idea's that one is fighting a losing battle.

 

[Murby]

Did you read the article I posted?

The NYTimes link?
What would you expect from an article in the New York Times? Its a liberal media source, but I get the point..

Again, guns are just a tool.. they're fast, mostly absolute (a sure success), and readily available.

In the absence of a firearm, there are a great number of other ways to be every bit as absolute.. but they're not always so conveniently available. Take away the firearms, and a person intent on killing themselves will just resort to one of the other methods.

It is always universally wrong to blame an inanimate object for being used inappropriately... and I challenge anyone to find an exception to that statement.

Interestingly, if I'm reading the stats correctly, the number of gun deaths (suicide, homicide, accidental) per year is almost exactly the same as vehicle deaths. Should we take away the vehicles too? At least that would benefit the environment..

 

[GraceDriven]

Actually, I believe its the whole faith thing that creates all the despair. A person puts their faith into believing in something that comes advertised with a promise.. When it lets them down in their time of need, as it frequently does, it can be traumatic.. Its common to hear "God is punishing you/me", or "God must not want.....".. or "God is testing me"..

When the faith is removed, one tends to look at situations much differently.. Statistical probabilities become logical conclusions with logical solutions.. No despair, no feelings of betrayal, no idea's that one is fighting a losing battle.

Without faith, I read the news and only feel despair. When I think of some of the sadness in my life and those I love without faith I feel despair. It's only when I have come to the conclusion that not everything is in my control and that all this mess is part of something greater and bigger do I not feel despair. Paul cut to the chase.

 

[rambot]

Actually, I believe its the whole faith thing that creates all the despair. A person puts their faith into believing in something that comes advertised with a promise.. When it lets them down in their time of need, as it frequently does, it can be traumatic.. Its common to hear "God is punishing you/me", or "God must not want.....".. or "God is testing me"..

This sounds like a bit of a caricature. I have been through TERRIBLE times and I, as a Christian have never, ever heard those words.

When the faith is removed, one tends to look at situations much differently.. Statistical probabilities become logical conclusions with logical solutions.. No despair, no feelings of betrayal, no idea's that one is fighting a losing battle.

Wow. So faith based folks are frequently suffering while those free from the shackles NEVER despair, and NEVER feel betrayed? Cause that's just..... totally incorrect.
Also, research bears out that those individuals who call themselves "religiously unaffiliated" have significantly higher suicide rates. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean atheist but it also runs antithetical to the above example of the "faith experience" you provide.

And, let's be honest, frequently, those who are contemplating suicide are not necessarily prone to making "logical conclusions with logical solutions" (to them, suicide feels like a VERY logical solution anyways).

I don't think suicide has too much to do with spiritual affiliation. But being part of a church/temple/shrine also means you are, defacto, part of a community. And that connections helps.

 

[rambot]

There was a book written about this very thing, called "Bowling By Yourself" or something like that.

Thanks! Given how little I read, I doubt I'd get to it but I'm glad someone is writing out it!

 

[Murby]

This sounds like a bit of a caricature. I have been through TERRIBLE times and I, as a Christian have never, ever heard those words.

Not sure what to tell you.. try googling.. very common phrases..

Wow. So faith based folks are frequently suffering while those free from the shackles NEVER despair, and NEVER feel betrayed? Cause that's just..... totally incorrect.

That's not what I said.

Also, research bears out that those individuals who call themselves "religiously unaffiliated" have significantly higher suicide rates. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean atheist but it also runs antithetical to the above example of the "faith experience" you provide.

Strangely enough, I would tend to agree with your statement here. I do believe that people with religious beliefs (specifically Christian for this conversation), may (probably?) have lower suicide rates than atheists.

It's a clear demonstration of the power indoctrination has over a young human mind.. If Christian doctrine declared sugar as an evil substance for which a sinner would burn in the lake of fire, there would be a lot fewer fat people in church due to the lack of sugar intake in their diets.

I don't think suicide has too much to do with spiritual affiliation. But being part of a church/temple/shrine also means you are, defacto, part of a community. And that connections helps.

As I said above, I think the religious doctrine may reduce the suicide rate due to the power of manipulating a young mind. There are few things I find good about religion, but I guess that would be one of them... And by the way, I didn't believe you when you said that.. I had to google it to see for myself.. Nice one!