NC blocks transsexuals from using the "other sex's" bathroom

[rjs330]

Well it looks like that Kroger's turned their 3rd bathroom (formerly known as the family bathroom with a deadbolt on the door) into a unisex bathroom. My what an easy fix and one that got mentioned when all of this nonsense started a few months ago. Will have to see if either of the Kroger's near me have done the same...

But Siggy that's not the solution haven't you been paying attention? Transgenders do not,want to feel segregated. They want to be part o f the sex they feel they are. If they feel like a,male they want to use the male bathroom not be segregated out.

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[Armoured]

But Siggy that's not the solution haven't you been paying attention? Transgenders do not,want to feel segregated. They want to be part o f the sex they feel they are. If they feel like a,male they want to use the male bathroom not be segregated out.

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You say that like it's an unreasonable thing to want.

 

[Thunder Peel]

I still want to know why the 3-5% of the population who identifies as gay or transgender is entitled to have everything they want. I guess the rest of us in the vast majority must now bend over backwards to accommodate them in every way.

What if there's a long line at the womens' room and a woman decides she identifies as a man so she can use the mens' restroom with no wait? How do you decide who actually identifies as what gender? This whole thing is insane.

 

[OGM]

That law is going to cost that State big time in lost revenue. At least the Georgia governor had the sense to veto such silliness recently. Losing the Superbowl alone would have been very bad. Much less companies moving out or deciding not to locate in the State.

 

[Armoured]

I still want to know why the 3-5% of the population who identifies as gay or transgender is entitled to have everything they want. I guess the rest of us in the vast majority must now bend over backwards to accommodate them in every way.

There used to be a time where this kind of insanity would have been thought preposterous and comedic...now it's just sickening and tired.

first, gay and transgender aren't interchangeable.

Second, even if transgender people only make up 0.01% of the population, or 0.001%, why shouldn't they want to use the bathroom in which they're most comfortable? What percentage of the population is in wheelchairs? Do you have a problem with wheelchair accessible bathrooms too?

 

[Thunder Peel]

first, gay and transgender aren't interchangeable.

Second, even if transgender people only make up 0.01% of the population, or 0.001%, why shouldn't they want to use the bathroom in which they're most comfortable? What percentage of the population is in wheelchairs? Do you have a problem with wheelchair accessible bathrooms too?

The people in wheelchairs are still using the bathroom of their gender. That's a weak argument. I don't see old men in wheelchairs claiming they should be able to use a female restroom.

What if I decide I'm a woman and want to use any womens' room I choose? Should I be allowed to do that on a whim anytime I want?

 

[rjs330]

You say that like it's an unreasonable thing to want.

It's COMPLETELY unreasonable IF you look like the opposite sex and want to use the bathroom. If you look like a dude stay out of the woman's bathroom. If you look like a woman stay out of the men's bathroom. It's not that difficult.

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[Armoured]

The people in wheelchairs are still using the bathroom of their gender. That's a weak argument. I don't see old men in wheelchairs claiming they should be able to use a female restroom.

What if I decide I'm a woman and want to use any womens' room I choose? Should I be allowed to do that on a whim anytime I want?

We're not talking about people deciding it "on a whim". Perhaps if you could get over such strawman mischaracterisations, you wouldn't have such a problem with it.

 

[Armoured]

It's COMPLETELY unreasonable IF you look like the opposite sex and want to use the bathroom. If you look like a dude stay out of the woman's bathroom. If you look like a woman stay out of the men's bathroom. It's not that difficult.

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So you're happy for a really feminine looking man to use a woman's bathroom? And vice versa, a really masculine looking woman?

 

[Thunder Peel]

We're not talking about people deciding it "on a whim". Perhaps if you could get over such strawman mischaracterisations, you wouldn't have such a problem with it.

So how do you decide? Is someone going to stand at the entrance to each bathroom and check some kind of documentation to ensure that they had surgery or several years of identifying as the opposite sex?

Let's go even further. There are some who claim they are animal spirits trapped in a human body. If a woman identifies as a cat and demands that litter boxes be placed in pubic restrooms so she can feel more like a cat, should that be allowed too? Where do you draw the line?

No one has thought this through. It's just another emotional, knee-jerk reaction that doesn't solve anything and creates more havoc. There's simply no way to prove who identifies as who at any given restroom.

 

[Armoured]

So how do you decide? Is someone going to stand at the entrance to each bathroom and check some kind of documentation to ensure that they had surgery or several years of identifying as the opposite sex?

Let's go even further. There are some who claim they are animal spirits trapped in a human body. If a woman identifies as a cat and demands that litter boxes be placed in pubic restrooms so she can feel more like a cat, should that be allowed too? Where do you draw the line?

No one has thought this through. It's just another emotional, knee-jerk reaction that doesn't solve anything and creates more havoc. There's simply no way to prove who identifies as who at any given restroom.

Who do you think checks for correct genitals at the bathroom door NOW? Why do you think it would bbe any different if transgender people were using "the wrong" bathroom? In fact, I wager anything you want you've been in public amenities with transgender people beefore and had no idea.

 

[rjs330]

So you're happy for a really feminine looking man to use a woman's bathroom? And vice versa, a really masculine looking woman?

Oh good grief! I've been around a few years and been in more public restrooms than you probably can imagine. I've never encountered a man who is so feminine looking that I couldn't tell he was a man. Unless of course he was really trying to look like a woman. Thats,my point. If you are trying to,look like a,woman and we can't tell,the difference between you and a woman then use the woman's bathroom. No one will be upset unless you let your junk hang out.

If you are a woman trying to look like a man and we can't tell the difference then use the men's,room. Don't upset the lady's by walking in there and making them think,you're a man.

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[Armoured]

Oh good grief! I've been around a few years and been in more public restrooms than you probably can imagine. I've never encountered a man who is so feminine looking that I couldn't tell he was a man. Unless of course he was really trying to look like a woman. Thats,my point. If you are trying to,look like a,woman and we can't tell,the difference between you and a woman then use the woman's bathroom. No one will be upset unless you let your junk hang out.

If you are a woman trying to look like a man and we can't tell the difference then use the men's,room. Don't upset the lady's by walking in there and making them think,you're a man.

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This is basically what transgender people want, so why are you so opposed to it?

 

[rjs330]

This is basically what transgender people want, so why are you so opposed to it?

I'm not actually. What I am,against is a dude that looks like a dude but wants to be a woman going into,the lady's room. If I look at at you and you,look like a,man stay out of the lady's room.

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[Thunder Peel]

Who do you think checks for correct genitals at the bathroom door NOW? Why do you think it would bbe any different if transgender people were using "the wrong" bathroom? In fact, I wager anything you want you've been in public amenities with transgender people beefore and had no idea.

If no one's checking then what's stopping me from using a womens' room now? If I look like a man but claim to be a woman then who can stop me? You're essentially creating a free-for-all where anyone can be anything at any time. I don't know any women who would be comfortable with a man walking in and using their restroom whenever they please.

 

[Armoured]

If no one's checking then what's stopping me from using a womens' room now? If I look like a man but claim to be a woman then who can stop me? You're essentially creating a free-for-all where anyone can be anything at any time. I don't know any women who would be comfortable with a man walking in and using their restroom whenever they please.

If nothing's stopping them now, why get so worked up about them being legally allowed to?

 

[Thunder Peel]

If nothing's stopping them now, why get so worked up about them being legally allowed to?

That's my point: they shouldn't be using the opposite gender's bathroom. It's astounding that we even have to clarify that men and women should use their respective restrooms.

 

[rjs330]

If nothing's stopping them now, why get so worked up about them being legally allowed to?

Because it didn't used to be an issue. Men would never go into a woman's bathroom and vice versa. Societal norms and accepted decency didn't allow it. If a was seen walking into,lady's room someone would say "hey that's the lady's room!" then the guy would get embarrassed and go into the men's,room. The law gets made because people start doing crap like looking exactly,like a man including having man parts and walking into the lady's room claiming to be,a,woman. That's why most laws get made. Everything is going,along ok then someone decides to go against the mores of society and then someone sez well I guess we need a law. FOREVER it was accepted as entirely in appropriate for a,man to walk into,a woman's locker room and undress in front of them. No one would have argued against that. It was,common sense and common decency. Now a man can say hey I'm a woman so now I can. Lets freak out all the women and girls in the bathroom because a guy wants to be a,woman, but still,looks like a guy and has guy parts that he's flashing around to am the girls. So, now we gotta have a law.

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[WolfGate]

From my perspective, bathrooms with privacy stalls/screens are an issue that can be worked around and was not my concern with Charlotte's ordinance.

Here is a very real, not hypothetical, situation that the Charlotte ordinance allowed.

North Carolina has several large aquatic centers, including one in Charlotte. The primary locker rooms in these facilities are open changing areas. The aquatic centers host numerous swim meets involving kids ages 8-19 or so. Several thousand swimmers use these aquatic centers for meets each year. Particularly for the girls, the tech swim suits they wear for major meets require assistance to put on from other swimmers and is literally a 10-20 minute process that occurs in the open areas. The aquatic centers are also used by the general public and at times have some public lanes available during swim meets. The Charlotte ordinance would have required that their aquatic center allow someone who indicates they identify with the gender that does not match their biological parts to change in the locker room of their identity. I think it can be accepted that would make numerous swimmer uncomfortable and uneasy - not to mention their parents who are not allowed in the locker room with their kids at meets. That question was posed to the swimmers on my daughter's swim team and the solid consensus was they would not be comfortable with a person of the opposite biological sex seeing them and being seen in their open locker rooms.

Now you're left with a dilemma. Either a small number of transgender people feel uncomfortable about not being allowed in the locker room of their identified gender, or a much larger number of people, many children, feel uncomfortable about having the opposite biological gender in the locker room. So who gets priority? In my mind it is pretty clear the large majority do.

I realize most transgender people would not do what the ordinance allowed, to which I would paraphrase the argument I've read here from proponents "If they aren't doing it now, why get so worked up about them being prohibited from doing so?". Wiping out the Charlotte ordinance then prevents what could have occurred with the Charlotte ordinance - the rare transgender who would go change in the open locker room despite the unease of the majority and the voyeur who decides to take advantage of faking being transgender to satisfy their perversion.

 

[JeffofGallifrey]

From my perspective, bathrooms with privacy stalls/screens are an issue that can be worked around and was not my concern with Charlotte's ordinance.

Here is a very real, not hypothetical, situation that the Charlotte ordinance allowed.

North Carolina has several large aquatic centers, including one in Charlotte. The primary locker rooms in these facilities are open changing areas. The aquatic centers host numerous swim meets involving kids ages 8-19 or so. Several thousand swimmers use these aquatic centers for meets each year. Particularly for the girls, the tech swim suits they wear for major meets require assistance to put on from other swimmers and is literally a 10-20 minute process that occurs in the open areas. The aquatic centers are also used by the general public and at times have some public lanes available during swim meets. The Charlotte ordinance would have required that their aquatic center allow someone who indicates they identify with the gender that does not match their biological parts to change in the locker room of their identity. I think it can be accepted that would make numerous swimmer uncomfortable and uneasy - not to mention their parents who are not allowed in the locker room with their kids at meets. That question was posed to the swimmers on my daughter's swim team and the solid consensus was they would not be comfortable with a person of the opposite biological sex seeing them and being seen in their open locker rooms.

Now you're left with a dilemma. Either a small number of transgender people feel uncomfortable about not being allowed in the locker room of their identified gender, or a much larger number of people, many children, feel uncomfortable about having the opposite biological gender in the locker room. So who gets priority? In my mind it is pretty clear the large majority do.

I realize most transgender people would not do what the ordinance allowed, to which I would paraphrase the argument I've read here from proponents "If they aren't doing it now, why get so worked up about them being prohibited from doing so?". Wiping out the Charlotte ordinance then prevents what could have occurred with the Charlotte ordinance - the rare transgender who would go change in the open locker room despite the unease of the majority and the voyeur who decides to take advantage of faking being transgender to satisfy their perversion.

The problem is that NC's law would put an FTM transgender guy who has facial hair, a flat chest, and has possibly had bottom surgery, in the same change room as your daughter. Now that the law is passed, instead of trans people deciding to go into the changing room where they can look least out-of-place (which honestly is how most trans people decide) trans people have to follow the government's decision. Even if it results in lots of awkwardness.

There's a good chance that any MTF trans girls who would use the same change room as your daughter are interested in guys, so they won't have any reason to stare. Even then, there are probably lesbians in that change room already. If the lesbians in the change room haven't caused trouble, a transgender girl in the same change room probably wouldn't either.