What is True Messianic Breaking of Bread?

[Hank77]

This date is plausible as "ImmanuEl" was born a few years before the death of Herod the Great (4 BCE to 1 BCE). Assuming the crucifixion occurred on the fifth day of the week (Thursday) in 23 CE that would translate to "ImmanuEl" being born around 10-9 BCE. TCC is in agreement with your interpretation of "3 days and 3 nights" with Passover on the fifth day of the week and the Resurrection on the first day of the week. However, TCC always shows "First Fruits" occurring 2 days after Passover, so with Passover (Nisan 14) falling on Thursday, TCC shows "First Fruits" occurring on Saturday ... any idea WHY some Jews teach/believe "First Fruits" is 2 days from/after Passover instead of 3 days?

Just my understanding, I hope this OK for me to share.

It's a confusion over which Shabbot the scripture is referring to. Is it referring to the morrow after the 15th, first day of Unleavened Bread Shabbot, or is it referring to the morrow after the first 7th day Shabbot during the week of UB?

The Karaite Jews believe that First Fruits (omer) is on the first morrow after the regular 7th day Shabbot during Passover week, the 8th day. This means the Pentecost, Shavuot, falls on a 8th day, Sunday, as well.
http://www.nehemiaswall.com/truth-shavuot
I personally agree with the Karaite because of these scriptures...

Lev 23:11 then he hath waved the sheaf before Yehovah for your acceptance; on the morrow of the sabbath doth the priest wave it.
Lev 23:12 `And ye have prepared in the day of your waving the sheaf a lamb, a perfect one, a son of a year, for a burnt-offering to Yehovah,
......
Lev 23:15 `And ye have numbered to you from the morrow of the sabbath, from the day of your bringing in the sheaf of the wave-offering: they are seven perfect sabbaths;
Lev 23:16 unto the morrow of the seventh sabbath ye do number fifty days, and ye have brought near a new present to Yehovah;

As far as I know there isn't any special Shabbot at the end of those fifty days, so the fifty days must number to the morrow of the seventh regular, 7th day Shabbot. Ending on the 8th day Shavuot.

It seems to me there is a significance of the 8th day in scripture, such as circumcision being on the 8th day.

Maybe this confusion influenced the Church's teaching of the Crucifixion being on Friday. If it was, the next day would have been both the 7th day Shabbot and the UBread Shabbot. Then the omer first fruits would have fallen on Sunday no matter which one the Shabbots it was referring to. Just guessing.
I believe the Passover was on Thursday.

 

[Alex Tennent]

Just my understanding, I hope this OK for me to share.

It's a confusion over which Shabbot the scripture is referring to. Is it referring to the morrow after the 15th, first day of Unleavened Bread Shabbot, or is it referring to the morrow after the first 7th day Shabbot during the week of UB?

The Karaite Jews believe that First Fruits (omer) is on the first morrow after the regular 7th day Shabbot during Passover week, the 8th day. This means the Pentecost, Shavuot, falls on a 8th day, Sunday, as well.
http://www.nehemiaswall.com/truth-shavuot
I personally agree with the Karaite because of these scriptures...

Lev 23:11 then he hath waved the sheaf before Yehovah for your acceptance; on the morrow of the sabbath doth the priest wave it.
Lev 23:12 `And ye have prepared in the day of your waving the sheaf a lamb, a perfect one, a son of a year, for a burnt-offering to Yehovah,
......
Lev 23:15 `And ye have numbered to you from the morrow of the sabbath, from the day of your bringing in the sheaf of the wave-offering: they are seven perfect sabbaths;
Lev 23:16 unto the morrow of the seventh sabbath ye do number fifty days, and ye have brought near a new present to Yehovah;

As far as I know there isn't any special Shabbot at the end of those fifty days, so the fifty days must number to the morrow of the seventh regular, 7th day Shabbot. Ending on the 8th day Shavuot.

It seems to me there is a significance of the 8th day in scripture, such as circumcision being on the 8th day.

Maybe this confusion influenced the Church's teaching of the Crucifixion being on Friday. If it was, the next day would have been both the 7th day Shabbot and the UBread Shabbot. Then the omer first fruits would have fallen on Sunday no matter which one the Shabbots it was referring to. Just guessing.
I believe the Passover was on Thursday.

Hank you are sure welcome to share any time.
I do agree with your points. Another point that I believe is very important in this discussion is what was God's motive in creating Passover and the First Fruits offerings (as well as the other feasts)? I do not think it was just a coincidence that Messiah (called "our Passover" by Paul) died from the crucifixion at the exact time and day that God gave to Moses for this offering to take place (14th of Nisan, between the evenings). And in the same sense, when the Heavenly Father gave the command to Moses of the first fruits offering, it would sure make sense that God again had His son in mind. I believe that the points you bring go right along with the typology and the fact that Jesus/Yeshua was called the "first fruits" (1 Cor 15:20-23), and therefore that this aspect of the feast also pointed to him. The first fruits offering was offered to God and after it was symbolically accepted they could then eat of the harvest in the promised land. It was also connected to Pentecost, as the 50 day count began from there. So when God showed He had accepted the first fruits, by raising the Messiah from the dead, on the morrow of the Sabbath, which they called the first day of the week (and was later called to Sun-day). Then God's spirit was poured out upon all people at Pentecost, fulfilling Joel (2:28) which would have been a huge thing in their day. To me, it also adds so much more to the true narrative to see this in the correct light. When those chief priests, scribes and others were walking by wagging their heads (Matthew 27:39-44) the timing is such that they were almost certainly on their way to the Temple with their Passover lambs in tow.

 

[Hank77]

I believe that the points you bring go right along with the typology and the fact that Jesus/Yeshua was called the "first fruits" (1 Cor 15:20-23), and therefore that this aspect of the feast also pointed to him. The first fruits offering was offered to God and after it was symbolically accepted they could then eat of the harvest in the promised land.

Yup. God did all those things to point the way to the Messiah. Another would be Him being born during Sukkot. He came to tabernacle with us.
Joh_1:14 And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth.

 

[AbbaLove]

As we’ve seen before, the natural-to-spiritual idiom was very common among these first-century Jewish believers. Therefore, it should not be a stretch to understand that when Jews who had accepted the Messiah went out breaking bread, they were doing so spiritually; they were not performing a natural ritual that Jesus and his Jewish disciples neither wanted nor taught. When the priests gathered in the Holy Place with the Showbread to break bread, this also pointed forward to the spiritual bread that we break:

YLT 1 Corinthians 10:16b the bread that we break—is it not the fellowship of the body of the Christ?
NAS 1 Corinthians 10:17 Since there is one bread, we who are many are one body; for we all partake of the one bread.

The priests who fellowshipped and broke the twelve breads in the Temple pointed to the New Covenant believers and the true bread that we break and share, just as the manna—the “bread” of heaven—pointed to the true bread of which we spiritually partake:
NAS John 6:32 Jesus therefore said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. (end quote from book)

And for anyone who would like to read that full chapter it is titled "The Jewish Idiom of Breaking Bread among the Early Believers" and can be found here: http://themessianicfeast.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/TMF_Course_3.pdf

1. Can we conclude without doubt that the only time unleavened bread was eaten (matzah) was during the 7 day Feast of Unleavened Bread?

Got a couple more related questions and would very much appreciate your insight/interpretation. Being that you use YLT and NAS translations will use these same translations for Matthew 28:1-4 ...

YTL Matthew 28:1-4
1 And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,
2 and lo, there came a great earthquake, for a messenger of the Lord, having come down out of heaven, having come, did roll away the stone from the door, and was sitting upon it,
3 and his countenance was as lightning, and his clothing white as snow,
4 and from the fear of him did the keepers shake, and they became as dead men.

NAS Matthew 28:1-4
1 Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.
2 And behold, a severe earthquake had occurred, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled away the stone and sat upon it.
3 And his appearance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow.
4 The guards shook for fear of him and became like dead men.

Apparentl "toward the first day of the week" means the same as "toward the first of the sabbaths" and vice versa. What is meant by this phraseology ~ "towards the first of the sabbaths."

2. When YLT says on the eve of the sabbaths and NAS says as it began to dawn toward the firs day of the week can we conclude without doubt that Yeshua arose before sunrise?

We know that Yeshua suddenly appeared from nowhere (Luke 24:36-49) on the road to Emmaus and to the Eleven in the Upper Room.

YLT Luke 24:30-35
30 And it came to pass, in his reclining (at meat) with them, having taken the bread, he blessed, and having broken, he was giving to them,
31 and their eyes were opened, and they recognized him, and he became unseen by them.
32 And they said one to another, `Was not our heart burning within us, as he was speaking to us in the way, and as he was opening up to us the Writings?'
33 And they, having risen up the same hour, turned back to Jerusalem, and found gathered together the eleven, and those with them,
34 saying -- `The Lord was raised indeed, and was seen by Simon;'
35 and they were telling the things in the way, and how he was made known to them in the breaking of the bread,

3. Can we conclude that this was still during the Feast of Unleavened Bread and the breaking of the bread was unleavened bread?

YLT Luke 24:36-43
36 and as they are speaking these things, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith to them, `Peace -- to you;'
37 and being amazed, and becoming affrighted, they were thinking themselves to see a spirit.
38 And He said to them, `Why are ye troubled? and wherefore do reasonings come up in your hearts?
39 see my hands and my feet, that I am Me; handle me and see, because a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see Me having.'
40 And having said this, He shewed to them the hands and the feet,
41 and while they are not believing from the joy, and wondering, He said to them, `Have ye anything here to eat?'
42 and they gave to Him part of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb,
43 and having taken, He did eat before them,

Thanks again for your book Messianic Feast: Moving Beyond The Ritual that is an unlifting encouragement to me.

​

 

[Alex Tennent]

1. Can we conclude without doubt that the only time unleavened bread was eaten (matzah) was during the 7 day Feast of Unleavened Bread?

Got a couple more related questions and would very much appreciate your insight/interpretation. Being that you use YLT and NAS translations will use these same translations for Matthew 28:1-4 ...

YTL Matthew 28:1-4
1 And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,
2 and lo, there came a great earthquake, for a messenger of the Lord, having come down out of heaven, having come, did roll away the stone from the door, and was sitting upon it,
3 and his countenance was as lightning, and his clothing white as snow,
4 and from the fear of him did the keepers shake, and they became as dead men.

NAS Matthew 28:1-4
1 Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.
2 And behold, a severe earthquake had occurred, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled away the stone and sat upon it.
3 And his appearance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow.
4 The guards shook for fear of him and became like dead men.

Apparentl "toward the first day of the week" means the same as "toward the first of the sabbaths" and vice versa. What is meant by this phraseology ~ "towards the first of the sabbaths."

2. When YLT says on the eve of the sabbaths and NAS says as it began to dawn toward the firs day of the week can we conclude without doubt that Yeshua arose before sunrise?

We know that Yeshua suddenly appeared from nowhere (Luke 24:36-49) on the road to Emmaus and to the Eleven in the Upper Room.

YLT Luke 24:30-35
30 And it came to pass, in his reclining (at meat) with them, having taken the bread, he blessed, and having broken, he was giving to them,
31 and their eyes were opened, and they recognized him, and he became unseen by them.
32 And they said one to another, `Was not our heart burning within us, as he was speaking to us in the way, and as he was opening up to us the Writings?'
33 And they, having risen up the same hour, turned back to Jerusalem, and found gathered together the eleven, and those with them,
34 saying -- `The Lord was raised indeed, and was seen by Simon;'
35 and they were telling the things in the way, and how he was made known to them in the breaking of the bread,

3. Can we conclude that this was still during the Feast of Unleavened Bread and the breaking of the bread was unleavened bread?

YLT Luke 24:36-43
36 and as they are speaking these things, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith to them, `Peace -- to you;'
37 and being amazed, and becoming affrighted, they were thinking themselves to see a spirit.
38 And He said to them, `Why are ye troubled? and wherefore do reasonings come up in your hearts?
39 see my hands and my feet, that I am Me; handle me and see, because a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see Me having.'
40 And having said this, He shewed to them the hands and the feet,
41 and while they are not believing from the joy, and wondering, He said to them, `Have ye anything here to eat?'
42 and they gave to Him part of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb,
43 and having taken, He did eat before them,

Thanks again for your book Messianic Feast: Moving Beyond The Ritual that is an unlifting encouragement to me.

​

AbbaLove thank you for your questions and your comment at the end, it really made my day. : )

1. On your first question you ask “Can we conclude without doubt that the only time unleavened bread eaten (matzah) was during the 7 day Feast of Unleavened Bread?” I am not sure I understand your question, but I am going to assume you meant for those several days after the last supper? If I am wrong you can tell me and I’ll try to answer your question better. But yes, normally that would be the seven day period of unleavened bread that would have been required by the authorities for all leaven to be removed from the land after 11:00 am, on the 14th day, since the legal time to begin the Passover sacrifices was after noon. Since the regular daily leavened bread was much for flavorful, there would have been no other reason to have it unleavened (called the bread of affliction), unless God had another reason for such a command, and there isn’t one. Now when they came the Messiah had already arisen, so are you wondering about a Saturday resurrection? If so, that would take another answer.

2. And your question on Matthew 28:1-4----The first thing to see in this verse is that it does not say “on the eve of the Sabbaths” or “towards the first of the Sabbaths” as the YLT has. I’m not sure why they did that, but the Greek word they translate as “on the eve of” is a preposition in the Genitive case, therefore it means “after” the Sabbaths. Here is this word from UBS Greek Lexicon, where it shows that a “prep.” with Genitive means “after” :

ovye, preposition genitive [UBS] ovye, (1) adv. late in the day, evening; (2) prep. with gen. after

We know that the Sabbath ends at sundown, so any time after sundown would be “after the Sabbaths.” As for the “at the dawn” part, I think when you put all the accounts together you have Mark 16:1,2 showing it was after the Sabbath (singular), and the Greek there adds what seems best at “the rising of the sun.” Then you also have Luke 24:1 saying it was “the first of the Sabbaths” (i.e. in Greek, meaning first day in relation to the Sabbaths, the first day of the week), very early morning. Then you have John adding Mary “cometh” to the tomb “in the early morning while it was yet dark.” So I think putting them all together they left for the tomb while it was toward dawn, but it was still dark, and as they arrived the sun was just starting to peek up. As for “toward” in those verses I think it is a somewhat loose translation that gets the sense across that this was “toward” the daytime of this first day. I think the Greek is really meaning early “into” or “ in” etc, as UBS Lexicon shows below:

[UBS] eivj prep. with acc. into, to; in, at, on, upon, by, near; among; against; concerning…

You can see that “toward” is not really a given meaning for this word, but it can work in a certain sense. Since YLT also says “at the dawn” it makes it clear they were not thinking it was meaning it was still the Saturday Sabbath, but rather towards sunrise and towards the day time portion. And as for the plural Sabbaths there in Greek, I remember looking into that when I did the book, and as best I can remember I think it could mean the two Sabbaths that had just occurred (Saturday, and Friday which happened to be the 15th day high Sabbath that year), or I also remember some saying that the plural Sabbaths meant “week.” But I also remember searching out other plural Sabbaths, and as I remember they seem to use this just in the sense of the Sabbaths as pictured as a whole. If I get time, and you like, I could dig a bit deeper on that point, but that’s the best I remember now.

3. Yes, it looks to me that for sure Luke 24:36-43 is still on that first day of the week (just a couple days into the Unleavened period), where he was first revealed to them as God opened their eyes when he “broke bread,” then he disappeared as they were still somewhat in shock, then they ran to where the eleven were, and Yeshua again appeared to them right when they said how they saw it was the Messiah in the “breaking of the bread.” You might be interested to read Course four where I go deeper into all that, explaining why the Lord brings out and breaks “bread” while still in this seven day period of unleavened bread.” And it can be found here. Oops, I just see that that Course is not up on my website, but if you want to read it you can send me a private message and I’ll give you a code for a free eBook. Let me know if I have missed any of your questions. All the best!

 

[AbbaLove]

But yes, normally that would be the seven day period of unleavened bread that would have been required by the authorities for all leaven to be removed from the land after 11:00 am, on the 14th day, since the legal time to begin the Passover sacrifices was after noon. Since the regular daily leavened bread was much for flavorful, there would have been no other reason to have it unleavened (called the bread of affliction), unless God had another reason for such a command, and there isn’t one.

We can read certain scriptures a hundred times and then see metaphorical symbolism and spiritual significance that we've previously never given much consideration to its much deeper meaning. Such is true with the following verses.

YLT Luke 24:28-33
28 And they came nigh to the village whither they were going, and He made an appearance of going on further,
29 and they constrained Him, saying, `Remain with us, for it is toward evening,' and the day did decline, and He went in to remain with them.
30 And it came to pass, in His reclining (at meat) with them, having taken the bread, He blessed, and having broken, He was giving to them,
31 and their eyes were opened, and they recognized Him, and He became unseen by them.
32 And they said one to another, `Was not our heart burning within us, as He was speaking to us in the way, and as He was opening up to us the Writings?'
33 And they, having risen up the same hour, turned back to Jerusalem, and found gathered together the eleven, and those with them,

Your explanations are insightful providing additional meaning and pause for reflection as we approach each of the special appointed Feasts of the Lord and His soon return.

Thanks again for all your informative eye-opening replies.

 

[Alex Tennent]

We can read certain scriptures a hundred times and then see metaphorical symbolism and spiritual significance that we've previously never given much consideration to its much deeper meaning. Such is true with the following verses.

YLT Luke 24:28-33
28 And they came nigh to the village whither they were going, and He made an appearance of going on further,
29 and they constrained Him, saying, `Remain with us, for it is toward evening,' and the day did decline, and He went in to remain with them.
30 And it came to pass, in His reclining (at meat) with them, having taken the bread, He blessed, and having broken, He was giving to them,
31 and their eyes were opened, and they recognized Him, and He became unseen by them.
32 And they said one to another, `Was not our heart burning within us, as He was speaking to us in the way, and as He was opening up to us the Writings?'
33 And they, having risen up the same hour, turned back to Jerusalem, and found gathered together the eleven, and those with them,

Your explanations are insightful providing additional meaning and pause for reflection as we approach each of the special appointed Feasts of the Lord and His soon return.

Thanks again for all your informative eye-opening replies.

I really appreciate that AbbaLove and appreciate all your replies as well. : )
And I sure know what you mean about scriptures that one can see many times and then sometimes in a new light it just jumps off the page and is alive. Sort of like where the Lord said his words are spirit and they are life! The Lord has much more for us ahead

 

[AbbaLove]

I think one of my favorite chapters it titled "The True Jewish Communion and the Messianic Feast." In that chapter I go into what communion was to the Jews long before the new covenant came in. I also tie in the 12 Showbread with Jewish history and the last supper parables. I couldn't resist adding a link to that chapter in this discussion! So here it is for anyone who might be interested: http://themessianicfeast.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/TMF_Course_6.pdf

The following is copied from page 207 of the above chapter ...

"When we put all these facts together, we see that the new wine is the New Covenant and its provisions, the infilling of God’s spirit, the joy and rejoicing, the agape love of God. The bread is the living word of God, the bread of life, the Messiah’s spiritual provision provided among the believers as we partake together, with God as “more than a mere guest.” By fulfilling what the bread and wine pointed to, the assembly will complete the plan of the ages by coming into God’s image and likeness, prepared to have the bridal relationship with God that Israel and all people are called to."​

Whether the word "wine" or "new wine" are used in the Tanakh or NT aren't both always referring to fermented grape juice?

Now that you have done all this research how often do you observe this very special time of bread and wine? Do you now include them with a meal or just by themselves. Don't mean to pry, but with all your research over the past years you certainly must take this more sacred than ever before. I could see where a person could overdue it (maybe and maybe not) depending on one's beliefs. So will ask the following questions if you or if you know of any one that has considered the following and any comments you would like to offer wouild be appreciated ...

Do you have a favorite kind of bread or only use non-glutten artisan breqd? Do you ever bake your own bread? Do you have a preferred brand of wine? Have you ever considered making your own wine or do you prefer grape juice?

Don't mean to pry, but all your research has certainly given you much to consider. More importantly would think you have a few suggestions for us to consider.

 

[Alex Tennent]

The following is copied from page 207 of the above chapter ...

"When we put all these facts together, we see that the new wine is the New Covenant and its provisions, the infilling of God’s spirit, the joy and rejoicing, the agape love of God. The bread is the living word of God, the bread of life, the Messiah’s spiritual provision provided among the believers as we partake together, with God as “more than a mere guest.” By fulfilling what the bread and wine pointed to, the assembly will complete the plan of the ages by coming into God’s image and likeness, prepared to have the bridal relationship with God that Israel and all people are called to."​

Whether the word "wine" or "new wine" are used in the Tanakh or NT aren't both always referring to fermented grape juice?

Now that you have done all this research how often do you observe this very special time of bread and wine? Do you now include them with a meal or just by themselves. Don't mean to pry, but with all your research over the past years you certainly must take this more sacred than ever before. I could see where a person could overdue it (maybe and maybe not) depending on one's beliefs. So will ask the following questions if you or if you know of any one that has considered the following and any comments you would like to offer wouild be appreciated ...

Do you have a favorite kind of bread or only use non-glutten artisan breqd? Do you ever bake your own bread? Do you have a preferred brand of wine? Have you ever considered making your own wine or do you prefer grape juice?

Don't mean to pry, but all your research has certainly given you much to consider. More importantly would think you have a few suggestions for us to consider.

Hello there AbbaLove! From what I have researched the "new wine" refers to the fairly fresh grape juice that would be not be fermented (although technically I have read that it essentially starts to ferment fairly quickly). As I remember during the Festivals they came to require new wine or "mixed" wine (adding water) so people would not become inebriated. I hope it doesn't sound bad but I do not observe a special time with bread and wine, because I believe they were parables that were meant to be spiritually fulfilled. When Yeshua broke the one bread into pieces, and then said "this is my body" he was not wanting his Jewish disciples to have a ritual where they pretend to eat his body as they eat bread (I know you know this, I am just speaking to the Roman/Protestant ritual). What the disciples came to understand, and then went out and taught, is that we the believers are the spiritual body of Christ (i.e. pieces of the bread, "this is my body, partake"). And that whenever two or three get together (pieces of the one bread) there the Lord will be in the midst, and there is a spiritual sharing and partaking. This is what the Messiah was teaching in his parables, and we know the disciples understood this when they say WE are the body of Christ:

NAS 1 Corinthians 12:27 Now you are Christ's body, and individually members of it.

We "remember" him not as we eat a morsel of unleavened bread in a Roman ritual, but as we fellowship with one another, sharing as each "joint" in the spiritual body gives forth:

NAS Ephesians 4:16 from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by that which every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.

This verse shows that this is how the spiritual body of believers will become the promised bride without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, as "every joint supplies," this will cause "the growth," for the spiritual body of Christ to be built up in (His) love. I know that is not how most of us have been taught but I believe that's what these scriptures are showing. The Lord was always teaching in parables (Mark 4:33, 34) because he wanted them to look past the natural things to the spiritual realm where the Father dwells. I believe that the history shows the ritual of Communion would never have taken place among the first century Jewish believers. They did not meet in the Temple and conduct the Roman ritual. They would never believe that the Messiah wanted them to drink his blood in a ritual, symbolically or otherwise (Again, I know you know this!). I am just making the point that the last supper was more about parables which were spiritual truth, that the disciples came to understand.
Having said all that, when I find out it is Passover it does mean something special to me. I do think about what went on 2000 years ago and there is a connection to those events. But I personally do not do any last supper type meal, but if I was fellowshipping with a group that did have a Passover type meal with bread I would have no problem partaking and entering in. But if they went into the ritual, saying this is the body and blood of the Lord, I would almost for sure not partake, because I don't at all believe that's what the Lord meant. I always enjoy your questions AbbaLove and I hope I am answering them!
In Course 3 below I put forth the idea that they were not just sharing common meals in many of the scriptures there in the book of Acts, but that they were often referring to the spiritual food, the word of God and the spiritual sharing they were experiencing among themselves, just being filled with God's spirit. Pages 119-127 especially bring that out. Here is that Course 3 if you or anyone would like to read it: http://themessianicfeast.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/TMF_Course_3.pdf
I certainly respect those who celebrate a Passover or last supper with bread and wine, but at the same time I don't believe this is what the Messiah meant in his parables. Instead, I believe the ritual of Communion is a tradition of man (from Rome) that the Lord specifically warned against, because it make void the word of God (as to what was really meant in those parables).
And if all this raises more questions please feel free to ask. Thank you!

 

[AbbaLove]

And if all this raises more questions please feel free to ask. Thank you!

Paul's admonition seems to be a physical act as well as spiritual. When Paul says "as often" one gets the impression it is more often than once a year on Nisan 14, before the Passover Feast of Unleavened Bread beginning on Nisan 15. Do you get sort of an empty feeling both physically and perhaps even spiritually if you have not found a like-minded community of Believers for fellowship due to it having become more of a religious ritual that is not even observed correctly.

How do you plan to get beyond the ritual aspect, while still abiding by Paul's admonition as well as the Lord's instruction at the "Last Supper" that this admonition is both a physical as well as a spiritual act of faith ?

NAS 1 Corinthians 11:26-29
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.
27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord.
28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly.

Won't argue that this scripture by Paul can and should be interpreted as much as a spiritual admonition as a physical admonition. Do you believe the Lord's "Last Supper" was both a physical and spiritual admonition for Believers to partake of more than just once a year (e.g. Nisan 14)?

Hope you get an invite to visit ONE FOR ISRAEL, interact with the faculty and students and see how the Lord leads.

 

[visionary]

NAS 1 Corinthians 11:26-29
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.

Please notice in a few verse above that it said...

23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

I know that many think that just as often as they take bread in church it is the Lord's Supper. Then there are those who every time they eat bread, they lift it up in remembrance of what He did. Then there are those who think that the church has the power to transform their bread into His actual blood and body. I personally think that it is a memorial that once a year at the time of the Passover, we do this in remembrance of our Lamb of God who was sacrificed for our sins.

 

[AbbaLove]

NAS 1 Corinthians 11:26-29
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.

Please notice in a few verse above that it said...

23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

I know that many think that just as often as they take bread in church it is the Lord's Supper. Then there are those who every time they eat bread, they lift it up in remembrance of what He did. Then there are those who think that the church has the power to transform their bread into His actual blood and body. I personally think that it is a memorial that once a year at the time of the Passover, we do this in remembrance of our Lamb of God who was sacrificed for our sins.

Is the Lord's instruction at the "Last Supper" as well as Paul's admonition in 1 Cor 11:26-29 a reference ONLY to the physical act of the "breaking of bread" during the seven day Passover Feast of Unleavened Bread from Nisan 15 through Nisan 21? You say Yes, but others say not so fast. Then there's the matter of possible misconceptions by both sides.

This is an interesting article as well.

Breaking of Bread the Jewish Understanding

And yet we know that the Lord's last meal with His Disciples was at the beginning of Nisan 14; while the Passover Feast of roasted lamb and unleavened bread didn't begin until Nisan 15. Here is an excerpt from Lulav's link which is generally accepted among Messiancs that the "Last Supper" was a Passover meal that included the breaking of unleavened (matzah) bread.

Most of us know, that at this time Yeshua was having a Passover Seder with his disciples. What piece of bread did he take, describing it as "my body"? He took the Afikomen; not just any piece of matzah, but the piece which was broken and hidden at the start of the Seder, and compared this to his body. This was UNLEAVENED bread, signifying the sinlessness of Messiah. It is only at the Passover Seder, held on the Eve of Nissan 14, that the Afikomen is eaten. The Torah clearly states that we are to remember our redemption by eating unleavened bread at the Passover and Feast of Unleavened Bread. This is the only time at which we are commanded by God to do this. Yeshua is the unleavened bread. For this reason he said, "Do this (keep the Feast of Unleavened Bread/Passover) in remembrance of me."

Alex's thorough research throws us a curve ball that neither Protestantism or Messianic Judaism quite knows how to handle. It seems to present another example of who thinks who has the more significant speck in their eye. In the end what is most important is the spiritual aspects of the "True Messianic Breaking of Bread" than pointing out what they contend are the other's misconception. Yet both may have a speck as is Alex's contention. Each side can base their belief that the "breaking of bread" refers to unleavened bread that one actually breaks into pieces. Alex might agree, as well as Lulav, that what's more important with respect to the "True Messianic Breaking of Bread" is the spiritual implication in each of our lives (Christian & Messianic Judaism) rather than pointing out any misconceptions of a Protestantism by a Messianic or vice versa.

 

[Alex Tennent]

NAS 1 Corinthians 11:26-29
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.

Please notice in a few verse above that it said...

23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

I know that many think that just as often as they take bread in church it is the Lord's Supper. Then there are those who every time they eat bread, they lift it up in remembrance of what He did. Then there are those who think that the church has the power to transform their bread into His actual blood and body. I personally think that it is a memorial that once a year at the time of the Passover, we do this in remembrance of our Lamb of God who was sacrificed for our sins.

Visionary I think it is key when interpreting the scriptures to determine when something is meant spiritually and when it is meant naturally. For instance Paul said that "we have an altar" and that those who serve the tabernacle (and Temple) cannot eat from our altar. But we do not believe he meant a literal altar to sacrifice anuimals on. Paul is speaking the natural but meaning the spiritual truth behind it. This was a very common idiom, especially among the first-century believers. When Yeshua said beware of then leaven of the Pharisees his disciples at first thought he was speaking of the leaven of "bread," but he explained that he meant something else. There are so many examples of this idiom that it took me a whole chapter and even then I just scratched the surface. So that is the key thing, what did the Messiah really mean, and what did his disciples then go out and teach. I think when you look at how they were "breaking bread" in the Temple (as Course 3 points out) it becomes clear that this was meant spiritually, for partaking of the bread of life and the word of God, as they were not allowed to bring food into the Temple. I think it is wonderful to gather at Passover and share a meal with bread and wine, but I do not think that is what the Messiah is meaning, nor is that what the Jewish disciples all went out and taught (as seen in the last chapter in my book).

 

[Alex Tennent]

Is the Lord's instruction at the "Last Supper" as well as Paul's admonition in 1 Cor 11:26-29 a reference ONLY to the physical act of the "breaking of bread" during the seven day Passover Feast of Unleavened Bread from Nisan 15 through Nisan 21? You say Yes, but others say not so fast. Then there's the matter of possible misconceptions by both sides.

And yet we know that the Lord's last meal with His Disciples was at the beginning of Nisan 14; while the Passover Feast of roasted lamb and unleavened bread didn't begin until Nisan 15. Here is an excerpt from Lulav's link which is generally accepted among Messiancs that the "Last Supper" was a Passover meal that included the breaking of unleavened (matzah) bread.


Alex's thorough research throws us a curve ball that neither Protestantism or Messianic Judaism quite knows how to handle. It seems to present another example of who thinks who has the more significant speck in their eye. In the end what is most important is the spiritual aspects of the "True Messianic Breaking of Bread" than pointing out what they contend are the other's misconception. Yet both may have a speck as is Alex's contention. Each side can base their belief that the "breaking of bread" refers to unleavened bread that one actually breaks into pieces. Alex might agree, as well as Lulav, that what's more important with respect to the "True Messianic Breaking of Bread" is the spiritual implication in each of our lives (Christian & Messianic Judaism) rather than pointing out any misconceptions of a Protestantism by a Messianic or vice versa.

Thank you AbbaLove, and I sure agree that the spiritual implication is most important. My personal belief is that it will mostly be the Messianic believers who eventually come into this truth, and some, or many of the Protestant churches will refuse and be left holding to the ritual. The scriptures speak of "until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled" and I think we are seeing that come about now. I believe that God is no respecter of persons, and that there will be many from all races that come together to make up the bride, but I think there may be a shift to the Messianic believers who want to go deeper in the Lord, fulfill what the Festivals spiritually pointed forward to, and not focus on church rituals that were in reality traditions of man handed down from Rome.

 

[Alex Tennent]

Paul's admonition seems to be a physical act as well as spiritual. When Paul says "as often" one gets the impression it is more often than once a year on Nisan 14, before the Passover Feast of Unleavened Bread beginning on Nisan 15. Do you get sort of an empty feeling both physically and perhaps even spiritually if you have not found a like-minded community of Believers for fellowship due to it having become more of a religious ritual that is not even observed correctly.

How do you plan to get beyond the ritual aspect, while still abiding by Paul's admonition as well as the Lord's instruction at the "Last Supper" that this admonition is both a physical as well as a spiritual act of faith ?

NAS 1 Corinthians 11:26-29
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.
27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord.
28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly.

Won't argue that this scripture by Paul can and should be interpreted as much as a spiritual admonition as a physical admonition. Do you believe the Lord's "Last Supper" was both a physical and spiritual admonition for Believers to partake of more than just once a year (e.g. Nisan 14)?

Hope you get an invite to visit ONE FOR ISRAEL, interact with the faculty and students and see how the Lord leads.

I have not hear of that AbbaLove but would love to get an invite to One For Israel! And my belief on what Paul brings is that he was speaking and teaching in parables, and does not fully re teach them on it because he had already taught them these things earlier when he was with the Corinthians (11:23, "For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you"). He had already taught them what the Lord's parables at the last supper meant when he was with them for 18 months previously, so now he knows they will understand what he is saying. And Paul teaches that WE the members in the body are the one bread (i.e. in the Messiah's parable):

NAS 1 Corinthians 10:17 Since there is one bread, we who are many are one body; for we all partake of the one bread.

Paul is not saying that their last communion ritual was so small that they only used on bread, he is rather showing what he understood the Messiah meant, that since he held one (leavened) bread and then broke it into pieces and said this is my body, and for them to partake, that it was showing that "we who are many are one body." We who are many are one spiritual body, and we partake from one another in the spiritual sharing, as we are doing on this site! When Rome took over they wanted to see this as a natural ritual with the Lord's natural body, so the King James added the word "Lord's" in front of body in the verse below, but the word "Lord's" is not in the following scripture (in the original Greek):

KJV 1 Corinthians 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

All through 1 Corinthians chapters 10 - 12 Paul is speaking spiritually. There are 18 times when he mentions the "body" in chapter 12 and every single time he is referring to the spiritual body, we the believers (and pieces of the one bread):

NAS 1 Corinthians 12:27 Now you are Christ's body, and individually members of it.

The Messiah's parables at the last supper are the only place this was ever taught, this was not something the apostles created on their own. And thank you again for your excellent questions.

NAS 1 Corinthians 10:17 Since there is one bread, we who are many are one body; for we all partake of the one bread.

 

[Alex Tennent]

Paul's admonition seems to be a physical act as well as spiritual. When Paul says "as often" one gets the impression it is more often than once a year on Nisan 14, before the Passover Feast of Unleavened Bread beginning on Nisan 15. Do you get sort of an empty feeling both physically and perhaps even spiritually if you have not found a like-minded community of Believers for fellowship due to it having become more of a religious ritual that is not even observed correctly.

How do you plan to get beyond the ritual aspect, while still abiding by Paul's admonition as well as the Lord's instruction at the "Last Supper" that this admonition is both a physical as well as a spiritual act of faith ?

NAS 1 Corinthians 11:26-29
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.
27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord.
28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly.

Won't argue that this scripture by Paul can and should be interpreted as much as a spiritual admonition as a physical admonition. Do you believe the Lord's "Last Supper" was both a physical and spiritual admonition for Believers to partake of more than just once a year (e.g. Nisan 14)?

Hope you get an invite to visit ONE FOR ISRAEL, interact with the faculty and students and see how the Lord leads.

And one more thing to consider when weighing all this is what was the Jewish history that led up the the last supper. When Yeshua broke bread and said "this is my body" it either had to mean that which would become his spiritual body, or his natural human body. There is no Jewish history where they would remember someone by eating bread that was their body. But there is Jewish history where the bread of heaven and bread of life pointed to someone in a spiritual sense. The most recent history (from their time) was when Jesus equated himself to the manna from heaven (John 6), that was called the "bread of heaven." Yeshua then says he is the true bread, he is what this bread of heaven pointed to. Another example in their history further back (that they would have discussed as they were discussing what the Messiah really meant in these things) was the twelve showbread, which represented the twelve tribes of Israel. When the priests from the higher order of Aaron would partake of these breads each Sabbath it pointed forward to a giving and receiving in the future spiritual body of Messiah. They would receive nourishment from the breads (twelve tribes) and in turn their ministry fed the twelve tribes. So when Yeshua gave the "twelve" a piece of bread that represented his body, one of the points they would eventually understand that this showed we are no longer twelve tribes but one body of believers in the Messiah. I don't feel like I am wording this very well but hopefully my point is coming through!

 

[visionary]

He is truly unleavened bread.

 

[Alex Tennent]

He is truly unleavened bread.

I think it is very important to allow the Messiah to tell us what he is. He taught us that truth is very important, he also warned against the "traditions of man that make the word of God void". Every time Yeshua speaks of himself symbolically as "bread" he uses the Greek word (arton) for regular daily bread which was leavened. Whether it is the "bread of life", the "bread of heaven", the "bread of God", or the bread in the last supper parables, not once does he ever use the Greek word for unleavened bread (azumos) in these references to himself. The unleavened bread was called the "bread of affliction" and was of course not the preferred way to eat bread, being much less flavorful. But it symbolized the haste in which they left Egypt where they did not have time to leaven and raise it by cooking, so it was as a remembrance of that it was commanded for Passover. So when the Messiah speaks of himself as our daily bread, bread of life, or whatever, he is of course not saying anything about himself being leavened, because we know he wasn't, he is only showing that he is our daily spiritual provision, the true bread that the manna pointed to. He never once refers to himself as the "azumos" (bread of affliction). The parables at the last supper, since the broken pieces of the one leavened bread refer to us, the members of his spiritual body, may have more meaning that could fit, from a typology perspective. It is true that in the Temple some of the unleavened offerings pointed to him, but in all his references to himself he used the regular word for daily bread. I think the best typology in the Tanach is the twelve leavened Showbread (Show-"bread") that symbolized the twelve tribes. Some of the grain offerings from the people would be offered in the fire to God (and God commanded these fire offerings to never have leaven, representing Christ) and some of that same grain would be made into the Show-bread, for the higher order of priests to partake of, and these were baked leavened in Moses and David's day (later changed to unleavened by the Pharisees, making the word of God void from a typology perspective). They were called "breads of the presence", or "presence breads," symbolizing God's presence abiding with them (i.e. the twelve tribes), and the scriptures always use the Hebrew word for daily bread "lechem," and never once were these twelve breads called "matzah."

 

[visionary]

Yeshua made it clear that the manna from heaven, the unleavened bread represents the truth from heaven. He is the truth.

Matthew 16:11
How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? 12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

 

[Alex Tennent]

Yeshua made it clear that the manna from heaven, the unleavened bread represents the truth from heaven. He is the truth.

Matthew 16:11
How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? 12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

I sure agree that he is the truth, but the Manna was not really bread since there are no ovens in heaven, it was only called "bread" (using the Hebrew word for daily leavened bread, lechem, not the unleavened word, matzah) in a symbolic sense. But thats a good scripture you quote, as the Messiah said he was NOT referring to the leaven of bread when he said his parable, but to their teaching. The same is true when he said he was the "bread" of life (John 6:35, 48) or the "bread" of heaven, or "bread" of God (John 6:33) or the "true bread" or the "living bread" (John 6:51). In all these examples the Messiah was not focusing on the leaven in bread, because that is not what he meant in the symbolic teaching. In parables or symbolic teaching (also typology) only the aspect that is meant is to be applied. So when Paul said the Messiah was our "Passover," it did not meant Yeshua had white curly hair and was easlily led astray (like a lamb), as that was not the truth Paul was speaking on. The Messiah never said "I am the mazah of life," nor did he say I am the "unleavened bread of life." He had reasons for saying what he did, and there were reasons why he held one leavened bread at his last supper, then broke it into pieces, and then said it was his body. And along the same lines there are reasons the twelve "Show-bread" were called "breads" (lechem) and never called "Showmatzah."