Feminism is not compatible with Christianity?

[RedPonyDriver]

By the way, I'm reading your posts to my husband...I can't write what he's saying but it boils down to grow up and put your big boy pants on.

 

[Neostarwcc]

I am far from lost and confused. I am 51, retired, have no financial worries, spend a good bit of time working with various ministries. I will be hanging out with my car club tomorrow (comprised of mostly men), enjoying the first reasonably warm weekend of the year. On Sunday, we will be at a Superbowl party at a friend's house.

Look, I have my opinion and you have yours. We can debate Feminism all day long until we're blue in the face and neither of us will change the views of the other.

Oh, reading back at what I said though, I did use the word Satanic. I used the word Satanic to describe the world we live in though, not you. Never once have I said anything about you worshiping the devil or anything. You have a right to be a Feminist, I just think it's wrong and there will always be someone out there that thinks it's wrong. Not everyone agrees with you or has to. I'd think you being 51 years old would realize that more than I would. I respect your opinion why can't you respect mine? Let's just call a truce.

I am quite sure of my identity, beliefs and path in life. Are you?

Not 100% but, I'm only 29 years old and just moved out of my parents house 2-3 years ago. God teaches me more and more everyday so, I probably won't ever be 100% sure of my path in life.

By the way, I'm reading your posts to my husband...I can't write what he's saying but it boils down to grow up and put your big boy pants on.

Good for him, I put my big boy pants on this morning and no longer wet the bed.

 

[ValleyGal]

My opinion is that anti-feminists (anti-equality, not the radical extremist) are uninformed, misinformed, misguided, and uneducated about what the Bible really says about gender equality of every kind - education, business, work, marriage, status, etc. Even a cursory study reveals powerful women, working women, educated women, and women in ministry, like Deborah, the Proverbs 31 woman, Phoebe, Priscilla (she is named first before her husband 4 out of the six times, which indicates she was the primary and he was the secondary), Lydia, and others. Imo, it is those who wish to remain in their ignorance of God's view on women, who refuse to study women in the Bible with an open mind and without their preconceived notions that women were all cloistered in their homes while men got to live their lives outside their homes. A study of the ideal wife suggests that it is "ideal" for women to work hard, and from her earnings she should go into business, buy land (in her own name, not her husband's name), and hire employees. If that is what an ideal wife is supposed to be like according to Scripture, why is it that feminism, which fought so hard for these very rights for women, is considered "antiChristian"?

But, for those who wish to remain uninformed, misinformed, misguided and uneducated about the issue, they will account for their denial to the God who wrote about women's equality in his very Word and his Son Jesus who was humble enough to ask for a drink from (heaven forbid!) a woman - and a (gasp) sinful one at that! Oh the horrors!

 

[RedPonyDriver]

At 29, I had been living on my own for 11 years, had finished undergrad and my first Master's. I owned my own home, was happily single and I think I may have been about halfway through my MBA. I had also just finished restoring a 1972 Chevelle and had been racing it.

Guess being able to stand on my own 2 feet for the last 35-ish years makes me a grown up.

 

[Neostarwcc]

My opinion is that anti-feminists (anti-equality, not the radical extremist) are uninformed, misinformed, misguided, and uneducated about what the Bible really says about gender equality of every kind - education, business, work, marriage, status, etc. Even a cursory study reveals powerful women, working women, educated women, and women in ministry, like Deborah, the Proverbs 31 woman, Phoebe, Priscilla (she is named first before her husband 4 out of the six times, which indicates she was the primary and he was the secondary), Lydia, and others. Imo, it is those who wish to remain in their ignorance of God's view on women, who refuse to study women in the Bible with an open mind and without their preconceived notions that women were all cloistered in their homes while men got to live their lives outside their homes. A study of the ideal wife suggests that it is "ideal" for women to work hard, and from her earnings she should go into business, buy land (in her own name, not her husband's name), and hire employees. If that is what an ideal wife is supposed to be like according to Scripture, why is it that feminism, which fought so hard for these very rights for women, is considered "antiChristian"?

But, for those who wish to remain uninformed, misinformed, misguided and uneducated about the issue, they will account for their denial to the God who wrote about women's equality in his very Word and his Son Jesus who was humble enough to ask for a drink from (heaven forbid!) a woman - and a (gasp) sinful one at that! Oh the horrors!

I never said that I was against equality. Look, when Feminism got popular in the 1950's even though I wasn't ALIVE then I agreed with it. Women should have had the right to vote, women should have had the right to own property, women should have had the right to own credit cards...etc. I never said they didn't, But, married women should not own property and credit cards. I even agree that a lot of men today treat women like crap and there should be a movement against that. Because, men are SUPPOSED to treat women and their wives with love and respect. But, the same goes for men too.

And, I'm sorry but when I'm not being respected I won't respect people back. I am NOT uneducated there is plenty of biblical evidence out there. But, just because I believe that women should not does not mean that it doesn't happen and isn't happening. Feminists are winning.

I'm so sorry I'm apparently so stuck in biblical times, but if I don't believe in ALL of the bible. What's the point in believing in the bible? I can't just pick one verse in the bible and say "OOOH, I like that." or "NO! I'm against that.".

I do think that it's anti christian. I DO believe that Feminism has no place in Christianity. But, It's only my opinion based on biblical evidence and what I see happening around the world. You aren't going to change my views and I am not going to change yours. I will die with my views as you will probably die with yours. We just have to learn to respect people who have different opinions than others. Instead of attacking each other like this.

At 29, I had been living on my own for 11 years, had finished undergrad and my first Master's. I owned my own home, was happily single and I think I may have been about halfway through my MBA. I had also just finished restoring a 1972 Chevelle and had been racing it.

Guess being able to stand on my own 2 feet for the last 35-ish years makes me a grown up.

What do you want me to say? Congratulations? I'm envious of you? Because, I'm definitely not envious of you. But, I might as well say congratulations.

I shouldn't have to explain why it took me so long to move out of my parents house or why it took me so long to get married. It really isn't relevant or any of your business. But, I do NOT regret the way I was raised nor that it took me so long. That's just what God wanted for me.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

You are being "attacked" because you have been given numerous BIBLICAL examples of powerful women and you ignore them. You are being "attacked" because you are throwing terms like satanist around. You are being "attacked" because numerous posters, including male posters have attempted to show you the error of your thinking and you have refused to heed the counsel of your elders.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Name even one time where I used the word Satanist during ANY of my time here and I will kiss your feet and say that feminism is completely right. Because, I never did. I used the word Satanic a bit, and called the world we live in Satanic but never once did I say that Feminists practiced Satanism. I said that the devil loved Feminists. But, the term Satanist means like I told you before, someone who openly worships the devil. Satanism is a form of religion or at least, that's what many people say that is completely separate from Christianity.

And you saying the scripture means what you're saying is merely your interpretation of scripture. There are many people who interpret scripture differently. People have been debating scripture for thousands of years.

 

[ValleyGal]

But, married women should not own property and credit cards.

You think women have to choose either/or? LOL> the ideal wife in Proverbs 31 was married. AND she owned land, was a business manager, etc. Soooo.... what seems to be the problem? God seems to think it's okay for a married woman to own land and be a business owner. Are you greater than God that you can say his way is not good enough?

Your "biblical evidence" is misguided and you are misinformed of the truth. Everything that applies to men in the Bible also applies to women, and vice versa. So if you are stuck in biblical times, then you should really educate yourself on what God really says instead of what you want to believe. Challenging your beliefs with an open mind is a hard thing to do. After all, you have a whole faith construct - and a faith construct is a core part of who a person is. Challenging that is incredibly painful because it challenges your very identity and may require you to give up some of your perceived rights and may press greater obligations on you. But the truth of the matter is that the truth will set you free - not your misguided preconceived notions of what you want it to say.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Your "biblical evidence" is misguided and you are misinformed of the truth. Everything that applies to men in the Bible also applies to women, and vice versa.

I never said it didn't. In fact I said "Because, men are SUPPOSED to treat women and their wives with love and respect. But, the same goes for women too."

You think women have to choose either/or? LOL> the ideal wife in Proverbs 31 was married. AND she owned land, was a business manager, etc. Soooo.... what seems to be the problem? God seems to think it's okay for a married woman to own land and be a business owner. Are you greater than God that you can say his way is not good enough?

Maybe I am uneducated on that but, I'm NOT uneducated in the main points of what I said.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Even if what you say is true and the bible says that women should work and that women should engage in a movement that goes against God's word, I mean it's literally there in the bible word for word pretty much.

You cannot deny the fact that feminism is supporting the issue of abortion and divorce and you cannot deny that both of those are against the bible, and that many feminists today are openly rebellious and think that they are superior to men. And that feminism did not release some pretty crazy and unfair laws into the world that completely infringe on male rights.

I mean one poster even confirmed it, "I was told that divorce was okay." Where in the bible does it say that divorce is okay? You can't quote one single piece of scripture that says it besides Matthew 5:32 and that is still heavily debatable.

But, Feminism planted the idea that divorce is okay into the minds of many people. Like I said before, divorce is highly common in the United States now, and doesn't it just seem a little odd that it started happening AFTER Feminism became popular and that It's women that are initiating divorces and that in many states, men have NO say in the divorce? Women just have to present papers to them. Yeah, some equality.

 

[98cwitr]

Comments denoted by dash below:

How many of you men out there enjoy seeing your wife in a nice pair if jeans or slacks?

-I know I do!

How many of you have wives with a cute short haircut?

-Eh, never been a fan of short hair...plus if my wife's hair were short she'd basically have an afro

How many of you have wives who work outside the home?

-Oh definitely. We both agreed that when we have kids though she will stay at home until they're ready to go to school. That isn't a decision I pushed on her, just an option we both support.

How many of you have wives who vote and support her right to vote?

-Sure. Why not?

How many of you have wives who drive their own car?

-We have two cars...she likes to play they are both hers

How many of your wives pay the family bills?

-She's not good with money, but we have separate accounts and she gives me an allotment to put towards the house. She pays the electricity bill and I cover the others.

How many of you enjoy taking your wife to a ball game or some other traditionally "male" activity?

-I try to get my wife to come with me to the race track ALL THE TIME...not her thing, but I still ask

Do you really and honestly want a wife who is dainty, wears a dress, bakes and cooks from scratch, does nothing but cook and clean and raise babies, never participates in your hobbies, can't drive a car or own her own property or have the right to vote or express her opinion?

-Nope. Wouldn't respect a woman like that as much as I do one that possesses autonomy.

Do you really want a wife who will just always give in to your command at all times?

-Yes.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

98...where do you race?

 

[ValleyGal]

Even if what you say is true and the bible says that women should work and that women should engage in a movement that goes against God's word, I mean it's literally there in the bible word for word pretty much.

You cannot deny the fact that feminism is supporting the issue of abortion and divorce and you cannot deny that both of those are against the bible, and that many feminists today are openly rebellious and think that they are superior to men. And that feminism did not release some pretty crazy and unfair laws into the world that completely infringe on male rights.

I mean one poster even confirmed it, "I was told that divorce was okay." Where in the bible does it say that divorce is okay? You can't quote one single piece of scripture that says it besides Matthew 5:32 and that is still heavily debatable.

Okay, point by point.

Work: God did say that women CAN work outside the home and own land - in fact, it's ideal according to Pr. 31.

Movements and abortion: God did not talk about "movements" aside from the liberal teaching of Jesus during his time and the apostles therafter (emerging early church). The whole feminist movement includes a couple of issues that are debatable, but that is no reason to lump all of feminism as "antiChristian." In fact, the Bible does talk about not judging the world by Christian standards - that is God's job. The world will judge itself until we all stand before God and give personal account. We "judge" (for the purpose of evaluation, not condemnation) those IN the church. That is biblical. Therefore, that translates to today by saying that feminism is fully acceptable according to the world's standards - even abortion and homosexuality. However, I would argue that homosexuality is NOT a feminist issue because there are plenty of gay men out there who have nothing to do with feminism either way, but who fight just as hard for homosexual rights as lesbians do.

Divorce. Divorce happened long before feminism, from both men and women. Divorce has nothing to do with feminism aside from the fact that abused women now have a voice and the ability (socially) to leave an undesirable marriage. I do not know of ANYone who marries with the idea that divorce is going to happen to them. But when divorce happens, it always happens for a good reason and typically after the couple has tried everything in their power to reconcile. So while feminism has had an impact for that reason, feminism is not the cause of divorce. Feminism provided a way out of a terrible situation by making it normal for them to support themselves, etc.

Divorce is absolutely okay. Here is a biblical study on the matter: www.divorcehope.com.
And marriage after divorce is even okay! That's radical! But it is biblical.

Now, please do tell, what feminist laws are crazy, unfair and infringe on male rights? There is only one I can think of, and that is women have the sole decision in abortion and men have no say, even though it is half theirs. That's the only one....and it does not compare to the crazy and unfair laws that men have passed which infringe on women's rights - such as the right to vote, own land, drive a car, get an education, divorce her husband even if he is abusive, etc...

 

[Job8]

This has been mentioned quite a bit recently and I'd love to discuss.

Thoughts?

Here is a summary to show why Feminism is incompatible with Bible Christianity:

LIBERAL FEMINISM
Humanistic
Scripture: Divine

Gender prejudice responsible for inequality
Scripture: All human beings are sinners

Legislation can change inequality
Scripture: The New Birth changes people from within

SOCIALIST FEMINISM
Humanistic
Scripture: Divine

Economic dependency responsible for inequality
Scripture: Woman created for man

Mother, home maker, child rearer = ideological myths
Scripture: God-given roles of women are not myths

Reform rather than revolution
Scripture: Spiritual transformation is a necessity

MARXIST FEMINISM
Demonic
Scripture: Divine

Capitalism = exploitation, oppression, discrimination
Scripture: Human sinfulness produces exploitation

Patriarchy is evil
Scripture: Patriarchy is according to Divine order

Family system is evil
Scripture: Families are according to Divine order

Revolution is necessary
Scripture: Spiritual transformation and submission essential

RADICAL FEMINISM
Demonic
Scripture: Divine

Men are enemies of women
Scripture: Men and women are complementary

Patriarchy is evil
Scripture: Patriarchy is according to Divine order

Marriage is exploitation, and sexual relations are politics
Scripture: Marriage was instituted by God

Lesbianism supports equality of women
Scripture: Homosexuality is perversion

Rebellion is necessary
Scripture: Submission is necessary

 

[RedPonyDriver]

To: mmbattlestar:
You are 29 years old and have been on yout own for a couple of years. You are still trying to figure out how to be a grown up. I think you "hate" feminism because you see that as your father's excuse not to get off his bum and support his family. So...you are going in the opposite direction to prove to yourself that you are not going

 

[Neostarwcc]

Divorce is absolutely okay. Here is a biblical study on the matter: www.divorcehope.com.
And marriage after divorce is even okay! That's radical! But it is biblical.

It is NOT biblical and this debate is getting us nowhere. Like I said, not a single piece of scripture except for what I quoted has in any way, shape, or form encouraged divorce. The bible is very clear that divorce is a sin just as much as it's clear that abortion is. I read your website and it is completely false. Matthew 7:15

You are 29 years old and have been on yout own for a couple of years. You are still trying to figure out how to be a grown up. I think you "hate" feminism because you see that as your father's excuse not to get off his bum and support his family. So...you are going in the opposite direction to prove to yourself that you are not going

You're entitled to your opinion but, it's false. I already told you I had resentment towards my father for NOT getting a job. He is NOT acting biblical and he SHOULD have worked. I don't "hate" Feminism because daddy wouldn't get a job and because daddy beat on me. It makes absolutely no sense what you're saying. If anything I would hate feminism because my mother got a job. Which is also, not true. But, It's the only way what you said would possibly make sense.

I already stated why I "hate" Feminism. Don't try to add anything more to it because it'll all be false.

@Job8 Pretty much exactly what I said. But, it was interesting and factual thanks.

 

[ValleyGal]

I have posted numerous scripture and a link to a whole Bible Study on divorce. As I stated before, those who stay in their ignorance of the truth will be responsible to God, not to me or anyone else on this board. The Bible says to study the word to show yourself approved, to be ready to give an answer, but you are unwilling to do that by refusing to discuss the scriptures we've posted. So be it. I stand clean before God and in right relationship with him. My whole feminist self.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Yeah and I could just as easily link these websites:

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Family/Marriage/divorce_is_a_sin.htm

http://www.gotquestions.org/divorce-remarriage.html

http://www.jesusfamilies.org/Articles/Divorce.htm

And you can claim that they're/I'm wrong. Where does it end? Just because one study says that divorce isn't against God and you agree with it doesn't mean that it's factual. Meanwhile, the bible does not lie and there are many, many, MANY verses that are against divorce and Jesus HIMSELF said that the only proper cause of divorce is in the case of sexual immorality. But, you aren't supposed to remarry after that either.

He also said that all sin is forgiven outside of blasphemy against the holy spirit.

I stand clean before God and in right relationship with him. My whole feminist self.

God bless you for your views and for your service then.

 

[98cwitr]

98...where do you race?

VIR and CMP

 

[RedPonyDriver]

VIR and CMP

Awesome! I used to race at PIR. Not racing right now, she's down for some mods...hoping to get her going in April.