Old Covenant - the covenant under which all are lost?

[BobRyan]

C.H. Spurgeon

"The Perpetuity of the Law of God;"

Very great mistakes have been made about the law. Not long ago there were those about us who affirmed that the law is utterly abrogated and abolished, and they openly taught that believers were not bound to make the moral law the rule of their lives. What would have been sin in other men they counted to be no sin in themselves. From such Antinomianism as that may God deliver us. We are not under the law as the method of salvation, but we delight to see the law in the hand of Christ, and desire to obey the Lord in all things. Others have been met with who have taught that Jesus mitigated and softened down the law, and they have in effect said that the perfect law of God was too hard for imperfect beings, and therefore God has given us a milder and easier rule. These tread dangerously upon the verge of terrible error, although we believe that they are little aware of it.

Section 19 of the Baptist Confession of Faith .

Section 19
The Law of God

• God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

• The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

• Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

• To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

• The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.

• Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.

• The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.

 

[BobRyan]

Westminster Confession of Faith

Chapter XIX

Of the Law of God

I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which He bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.[1]

II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in Ten Commandments, and written in two tables:[2] the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.[3]

III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, His graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;[4] and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties.[5] All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament.[6]

IV. To them also, as a body politic, He gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging under any now, further than the general equity thereof may require.[7]

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof;[8] and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it.[9] Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.[10]

VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned;[11] yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly;[12] discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives;[13] so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin,[14] together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of His obedience.[15] It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin:[16] and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law.[17] The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof:[18] although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works.[19] So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace.[20]

VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it;[21] the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.[22]

 

[BobRyan]

Westminster Confession of Faith - XXI


VII. As it is the law of nature, that, in general, a due proportion of time be set apart for the worship of God; so, in His Word, by a positive, moral, and perpetual commandment binding all men in all ages, He has particularly appointed one day in seven, for a Sabbath, to be kept holy unto him:[34] which, from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, was the last day of the week: and, from the resurrection of Christ, was changed into the first day of the week,[35] which, in Scripture, is called the Lord's Day,[36] and is to be continued to the end of the world, as the Christian Sabbath.[37]

 

[BobRyan]

deleted duplicate

 

[Bob S]

Hi Bob Ryan, I take note that you are still quoting all those preachers and teachers from Babylon, those who are going to receive mark of the Beast according to Adventist beliefs. You are trying to make your point using men your church detests. That is not very smart to call someone Babylon and then Quote them as being Kosher. That seems like it isn't a very smart idea. Why not make your points with scripture that is not taken out of context. We all know that when you uses scripture that most times it is taken out of context to try to snooker us. How is all that working?

 

[bugkiller]

C.H. Spurgeon

"The Perpetuity of the Law of God;"

Very great mistakes have been made about the law. Not long ago there were those about us who affirmed that the law is utterly abrogated and abolished, and they openly taught that believers were not bound to make the moral law the rule of their lives. What would have been sin in other men they counted to be no sin in themselves. From such Antinomianism as that may God deliver us. We are not under the law as the method of salvation, but we delight to see the law in the hand of Christ, and desire to obey the Lord in all things. Others have been met with who have taught that Jesus mitigated and softened down the law, and they have in effect said that the perfect law of God was too hard for imperfect beings, and therefore God has given us a milder and easier rule. These tread dangerously upon the verge of terrible error, although we believe that they are little aware of it.

Section 19 of the Baptist Confession of Faith .

Section 19
The Law of God

• God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

• The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

• Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

• To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

• The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.

• Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.

• The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.

Make the type size as big as you wish. That doesn't make what you're promoting any more correct. You and your quoted are promoting very different things. CH Spurgeon neither taught nor practiced what you promote.

bugkiller

 

[jerry kelso]

Westminster Confession of Faith - XXI


VII. As it is the law of nature, that, in general, a due proportion of time be set apart for the worship of God; so, in His Word, by a positive, moral, and perpetual commandment binding all men in all ages, He has particularly appointed one day in seven, for a Sabbath, to be kept holy unto him:[34] which, from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, was the last day of the week: and, from the resurrection of Christ, was changed into the first day of the week,[35] which, in Scripture, is called the Lord's Day,[36] and is to be continued to the end of the world, as the Christian Sabbath.[37]

bobryan,

1. Do you believe the westminster confession of faith?

2. You are 7th adventist that practices the sabbath on saturday and this says it was changed from the last day (saturday) to the first day of the week (sunday). You can't have it both ways, make up your mind.
We can enter into his rest freely everyday and observe every day.

3. Actually in Colossians says sabbath days plural or a holy day let no man judge you in meat, or in drink. This is in the same context as the blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

4. The meat, drinks holy day, the new moon and the sabbath days were ceremonial ordinances.

5. So you are observing a ceremonial law that was nailed to the cross on one particular day that has been abolished for it is out of necessity to be legalistic and you do not observe all the sabbath days so you sin there since you think that we are under the law of Moses. You also connect it with salvation because if you don't legalistically keep it you will incur the curse of the Mark of the Beast and yet you say the curse was lifted.

6. All you are doing is trying to keep you false doctrine alive and it isn't convincing at all according to the scriptures and anyone with common sense. Give up. I'm also waiting for you to explain 1 Corinthians 15 even though I know you can't. Jerry kelso

 

[BobRyan]

bobryan,

1. Do you believe the westminster confession of faith?

Why would I be quoting C.H. Spurgeon, the Baptist Confession of Faith and the Westminster confession of Faith and D.L. Moody and R.C Sproul on the subject of the continued TEN Commandments - if I thought it was wrong for them to admit to the Bible fact - that God's Ten Commandments are for all mankind and are still applicable??

I don't understand your logic at that point.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources as quoted on this thread.

1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will go on to then complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.

2. You are 7th adventist that practices the sabbath on saturday and this says it was changed from the last day (saturday) to the first day of the week (sunday).

True I am SDA and true that this explains why I would object to ONE out of that list of 7 instead of agreeing with ALL SEVEN.

But you and I both know - this was the "obvious" and easy part of that point.

 

[BobRyan]

3. Actually in Colossians says sabbath days plural or a holy day let no man judge you in meat, or in drink. This is in the same context as the blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

4. The meat, drinks holy day, the new moon and the sabbath days were ceremonial ordinances.

Col 2 is not condemning anything in the Bible - it is condemning the "commandments of men" as stated in the actual Col 2 text.

5. So you are observing a ceremonial law that was nailed to the cross

Your own pro-sunday scholar refute your speculation on that point. How much MORE would I not accept such a speculative statement?

 

[BobRyan]

Colossians 2

Pardon me while I call attention to the text... again.


Col 2:4-23 points to the fact that the certificate of debt is paid and that we should not "make stuff up" that is not in the Bible as did the Jews in Mark 2 and Mark 7 and in Titus 1.


4 I say this so that no one will delude you with persuasive argument. 5 For even though I am absent in body, nevertheless I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good discipline and the stability of your faith in Christ.

6 Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, 7 having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.

8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; 11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; 12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.

16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. 18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,

20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)

 

[jerry kelso]

Why would I be quoting C.H. Spurgeon, the Baptist Confession of Faith and the Westminster confession of Faith and D.L. Moody and R.C Sproul on the subject of the continued TEN Commandments - if I thought it was wrong for them to admit to the Bible fact - that God's Ten Commandments are for all mankind and are still applicable??

I don't understand your logic at that point.

in Christ,

Bob

bobryan,
You are 7th day adventist and you believe the sabbath is supposed to be observed on saturday. The westminster confession of faith says it was changed to the first day of the week which is sunday which is against your belief. That is purely logical. Jerry Kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

Col 2 is not condemning anything in the Bible - it is condemning the "commandments of men" as stated in the actual Col 2 text.



Your own pro-sunday scholar refute your speculation on that point. How much MORE would I not accept such a speculative statement?

Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources as quoted on this thread.

1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will go on to then complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.



True I am SDA and true that this explains why I would object to ONE out of that list of 7 instead of agreeing with ALL SEVEN.

But you and I both know - this was the "obvious" and easy part of that point.

bobryan,

1. Genesis 2:1-3 was no commandment to man about keeping the sabbath. God blessed and sanctified it and rested from his work of creation.

2. There was no ten commandments in the antediluvian days from Adam and Eve to Noah. If you think so show the scripture. You could say that what they did according to their conscience that was contained in the written law later was a law unto themselves as in Roman 2. But there was no written law of the ten commandments mandatorily in Adam and Eve's day. The ten commandments which gave the knowledge of sin by the commandment wasn't until Moses day. Read your bible.

3. 9 of the 10 commandments are moral. The sabbath is ceremonial given by God to Moses. The weekly sabbath was the first of eight feast of the Lord in Leviticus 23, Concerning THE FEASTS OF THE LORD, which ye shall proclaim TO BE HOLY CONVOCATIONS, EVEN THESE ARE MY FEASTS. Six days shall work be done: but on the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, AN HOLY CONVOCATION; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD IN ALL YOUR DWELLINGS. Then it goes on to command the seasonal feasts and holy convocations which were to be kept IN THEIR SEASONS Leviticus 23:2-4.

4. You have no scriptural proof to prove the sabbath being kept on saturday. Sunday sabbath keepers would have more ground to believe their stance because of Jesus resurrection. You are wrong again. Jerry Kelso

 

[BobRyan]

I previously posted this --

===============================================================
Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources as quoted on this thread.

1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will go on to then complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.

True I am SDA and true that this explains why I would object to ONE out of that list of 7 instead of agreeing with ALL SEVEN.

But you and I both know - this was the "obvious" and easy part of that point.

bobryan,
You are 7th day adventist and you believe the sabbath is supposed to be observed on saturday.

I think that is a fair observation given what I have already posted.

The westminster confession of faith says it was changed to the first day of the week which is sunday

Indeed as I noted in my 7 point list above - that is the one point where I differ. Meanwhile many others opposing God' Law are opposed to all 7 points made by the Baptist Confession of Faith - and the Westminster Confession of faith.

which is against your belief. That is purely logical. Jerry Kelso

You seem to be agreeing with my comments about that 7 point list.

Am I supposed to "object"??

 

[jerry kelso]

I previously posted this --

===============================================================
Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources as quoted on this thread.

1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will go on to then complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.

True I am SDA and true that this explains why I would object to ONE out of that list of 7 instead of agreeing with ALL SEVEN.

But you and I both know - this was the "obvious" and easy part of that point.




I think that is a fair observation given what I have already posted.



Indeed as I noted in my 7 point list above - that is the one point where I differ. Meanwhile many others opposing God' Law are opposed to all 7 points made by the Baptist Confession of Faith - and the Westminster Confession of faith.



You seem to be agreeing with my comments about that 7 point list.

Am I supposed to "object"??

bobryan,

Why are you so intent on saying everyone should observe the sabbath on the same day as you because you think it was a command at creation when it wasn't? What not observing the sabbath on saturday is going to do to one's salvation? Jerry kelso

 

[bugkiller]

Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources as quoted on this thread.

1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3

If they do they're wrong. The word Sabbath doesn't even appear in Genesis.

2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.

Not according to Moses or any author in the NT.

3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.

Invalid claim. See my remark on point 1.

4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God

According to who?

5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant

OK I can accept that.

6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.

I can accept that the 10 Cs aren't opposed to grace or the Gospel. However they're not part of the Gospel and don't grant grace.

7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

Then why do you and your group bend the 4th commandment.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Col 2 is not condemning anything in the Bible - it is condemning the "commandments of men" as stated in the actual Col 2 text.

Would women be included in that group?

Your own pro-sunday scholar refute your speculation on that point. How much MORE would I not accept such a speculative statement?

This isn't our pro-sunday scholar as you falsely accuse and have been told more than once before.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Colossians 2

Pardon me while I call attention to the text... again.


Col 2:4-23 points to the fact that the certificate of debt is paid and that we should not "make stuff up" that is not in the Bible as did the Jews in Mark 2 and Mark 7 and in Titus 1.

Where do you get this from? Col 2 says ordinances. It doesn't say certificate of debt.

4 I say this so that no one will delude you with persuasive argument. 5 For even though I am absent in body, nevertheless I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good discipline and the stability of your faith in Christ.

6 Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, 7 having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.

8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; 11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; 12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.

First I can't believe you're even quoting this passage in defense of your teaching. Second the original language won't support this particular version of the Bible. The original language will support ordinance, law, edict, or decree none of which can possibly be construed to be a certificate of debt.

16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—

So please explain where you get your authority to violate this verse.

17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. 18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,

20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?

Great question? Would you care to explain?

23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)

Yeppers! and you lose your own argument without help.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Where do you get this from? Col 2 says ordinances. It doesn't say certificate of debt.

NASB - perhaps you have heard of it.

First I can't believe you're even quoting this passage in defense of your teaching. Second the original language won't support this particular version of the Bible. The original language will support ordinance, law, edict, or decree none of which can possibly be construed to be a certificate of debt.So please explain where you get your authority to violate this verse.

The "handwriting" is in fact the "Certificate of debt" - the bill, the rechnung -

John Gill
or rather the whole law of Moses is intended, which was the handwriting of God, and obliged to obedience to it, and to punishment in case of disobedience; and this the Jews F26 call (bwx) (rjv) , "the writing of the debt", and is the very phrase the Syriac version uses here: now this was as a debt book, which showed and testified the debts of men; that is, their sins, how many they are guilty of, and what punishment is due unto them: and may well be said to be that
that was against us, which was contrary to us;


Jamieson,. Fausset , Brown
J.F.B
14. Blotting out--Greek, "Having wiped out"; coincident in time with "having forgiven you" ( Col 2:13 ); hereby having cancelled the law's indictment against you.

 

[BobRyan]

Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources as quoted on this thread.

1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will go on to then complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.

bobryan,

Why are you so intent on saying everyone should observe the sabbath on the same day as you because you think it was a command at creation when it wasn't? What not observing the sabbath on saturday is going to do to one's salvation? Jerry kelso

God said the SEVENTH-day is the Sabbath -- man-made-tradition says 'No now it is the FIRST day'
God said 'Tomorrow IS the Sabbath" -- man-made tradition says "no it is the day after that - moved it to first day"

Mark 7:6-13 comes to mind.

Mark 7
5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?”
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.