Steve Petersen
Senior Veteran
A question that continues to bother me: Why does God need to be appeased anyway? Who made the rules?
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He doesn't.A question that continues to bother me: Why does God need to be appeased anyway? Who made the rules?
A question that continues to bother me: Why does God need to be appeased anyway? Who made the rules?
He doesn't.
And I'm not sure. Calvin? Someone around that time? Or Augustine? Good question though. I'd like to know the answer.
That explain part of what you don't believe ... But what DO you believe? I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but can you state the purpose of the Incarnation and the means of salvation in positive terms - what it is, rather than what it is not?
That might help discussion? I will say this - it took several months of pretty intense study and reading to begin to really understand what Orthodoxy teaches about salvation. You find bits and pieces, but it is so rich that it is difficult to state succinctly without leaving SOMEthing out.
And I think I see a difference, we believe we are saved by participating in God's own life, not merely by following Him (and that is where the Blood comes in, as Christ says in John's Gospel)
I know you take that passage as referring to the "Eucharist", but I don't. I respect that belief, but I don't hold it.
Do you understand exactly why you don't hold that belief? I mean, you do know that the ability to accept and eventually understand this "hard saying" of Christ's in the way that He Truly meant it is reliant upon one's personal psychological makeup? And that is why there are generally two or three ways that people interpret that passage, and the Last Supper altogether?I know you take that passage as referring to the "Eucharist", but I don't. I respect that belief, but I don't hold it.
He doesn't, because He has no needs. This started as speculation that really and sadly took hold in the West
God doesn't require that things be atoned for. We need atonement because of the sort of creature that we are.Why does God require that things be atoned for?
Why does God require that things be atoned for?
He doesn't. we might need requirements, but He doesn't
This is a beautiful piece of literature very inspiring and true nearly made me weep.Christ, who is the power of God and the wisdom of God, before whom all tremble and whom all dread, and whom every tongue praiseth, verily, the priests smote, and gave him gall to drink. He consenteth to undergo all kinds of suffering, desiring to save us from our iniquities with his blood; for he is the lover of mankind.
Yes. The images used in Scripture do not define a mystery that defies all rational/cognitive aspects of the minds of creatures: the images are only metaphors that point to the "great mystery of salvation".I'm still trying to figure all this out. Scripture uses words such as propitiation and atonement, both of which appear to have meanings which dovetail with the Western idea of legal payment for sin.
Could you help me out here?
I'm still trying to figure all this out. Scripture uses words such as propitiation and atonement, both of which appear to have meanings which dovetail with the Western idea of legal payment for sin.
Could you help me out here?
Hebrews 9-22I just don't believe that God requires blood spilling in order to forgive sins. I don't think blood has anything to do with it. I think it is a man-made concept of the deity.
Luke 4-4I need to reply in more detail than what I can tonight. I'll get back with you.
Yes. The images used in Scripture do not define a mystery that defies all rational/cognitive aspects of the minds of creatures: the images are only metaphors that point to the "great mystery of salvation".