Saturday or Sunday Worship

[BobRyan]

How would yer sect like to be called a cult
.

Very good point - I guess I will have to rethink calling other groups "sects" (as the Jews did of the Christians ) and "cults" so often in my posting ... err.. um... wherever I do that.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[sunshineforJesus]

I love to go to church on Sunday

 

[BobRyan]

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this but I would like some help with a deep theological question I have. In a Bible Study lesson I am taking, which I will just get right to it, claims that Satan's decepiton is the Sunday Worship. Clearly I am very sceptical about this and would like any answers on this particular subject. I have gone to another source and both of them seem to be against each other.

So is there any truth to these claims?

For example Leo Trese in his book "The Faith Explained" -- commentary on the Baltimore Catechism after Vatican II -

The Faith Explained (an RC commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican ii) states on Page 242 that
====================begin short summary
changing the Lord's day to Sunday was in the power of the church since "in the gospels ..Jesus confers upon his church the power to make laws in his name".

page 243

"Nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day From Saturday to Sunday. We know of the change only from the tradition of the Church - a fact handed down to us...that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many Non-Catholics, who say that they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and Yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church"

====================================== begin expanded quote
. (from "The Faith Explained" page 243

"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

 

[BobRyan]

Very good point - I guess I will have to rethink calling other groups "sects" (as the Jews did of the Christians ) and "cults" so often in my posting ... err.. um... wherever I do that.

Which of course - I never do.

 

[BABerean2]

We used the first hour and 11 minutes of this for a home Bible study that I participate in.
It explains several key points that have confused so many.


The Old Covenant/ New Covenant and Sabbath

 

[BobRyan]

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this but I would like some help with a deep theological question I have. In a Bible Study lesson I am taking, which I will just get right to it, claims that Satan's decepiton is the Sunday Worship. Clearly I am very sceptical about this and would like any answers on this particular subject. I have gone to another source and both of them seem to be against each other.

So is there any truth to these claims?

Consider the "New Covenant"

New Covenant saints in both the OT and NT would have the "Law of God written on the mind and heart" --

we saw it in Jer 31:31-33 and in Heb 8


Jer 31:
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—
32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord.
33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”



Heb 8
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—
9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

Exegesis of Jer 31:31-33 demands that we admit to the New Covenant "Law" known to Jeremiah and his readers.
Then consider what Christ said about "editing"/"tweaking" the LAw of God in Mark 7:6-13

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.

 

[BobRyan]

To SDA's it is, because a majority of them believe and preach he rose on a Saturday

Whahuh????

 

[BABerean2]

Consider the "New Covenant"

New Covenant saints in both the OT and NT would have the "Law of God written on the mind and heart" --

we saw it in Jer 31:31-33 and in Heb 8

I agree with all of the scripture you posted.

The one question would be... When did the New Blood Covenant go into effect?


Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


Joh_19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.


Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

.

 

[BobRyan]

In Matt 17 both Moses and Elijah appear "with Christ" in glory on the mount of transfiguration - before the cross.

Gal 1:6-9 says that in all of time there has always been "only 1 Gospel" and Moses and Elijah were saved by it - pre-cross.

Heb 4:2 "the Gospel was preached to US just as it was to THEM"

Gal 3:7 "The Gospel was preached to Abraham"

Saved by grace through faith - it was and still is "the only way"

In the New Covenant we find forgiveness of sins, adoption as children of God AND the LAW of God known to Jeremiah and his readers -- "written on the mind and heart"

 

[BABerean2]

In Matt 17 both Moses and Elijah appear "with Christ" in glory on the mount of transfiguration - before the cross.

Gal 1:6-9 says that in all of time there has always been "only 1 Gospel" and Moses and Elijah were saved by it - pre-cross.

Heb 4:2 "the Gospel was preached to US just as it was to THEM"

Gal 3:7 "The Gospel was preached to Abraham"

Saved by grace through faith - it was and still is "the only way"

In the New Covenant we find forgiveness of sins, adoption as children of God AND the LAW of God known to Jeremiah and his readers -- "written on the mind and heart"

The Gospel of the Genesis 3:15 Seed who was to come was preached to them.

The New Covenant is the fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant, not the Sinai Covenant which we are to cast out according to Galatians chapter 4.

Both Jer. 31 and Hebrews 8 make it clear that the New Covenant is not like the Sinai Covenant and that God no long considers the Israelites under the Old Covenant because they broke it.


Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

In the verse above we have two sets of commandments.
The commandments of Christ and the commandments of the Father.

The Blood Covenant of Christ was fulfilled at Calvary.
.

 

[Wordkeeper]

http://www.ldolphin.org/sabbathrest.html

Quote
Therefore, let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath. These are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. (Colossians 2:13-17)

That should make it clear. This is why the claims of the Seventh Day Adventists, the Seventh Day Baptists, and other groups, that Christians changed the sabbath, are absurd, ridiculous. They claim that the Pope changed the sabbath by a papal edict from Saturday to Sunday, and that around the third or fourth century Christians began to celebrate Sunday rather than Saturday, out of obedience to this papal edict. But nothing could be further from the truth. History does not corroborate that in any degree. The Sabbath has always been Saturday and it always will be. It is the seventh day of the week. Sunday has always been the first day of the week. It has never been a sabbath, and it is pure legalism to call it a sabbath or to treat it as one. It is not a day of rest or restricted activity and it is not designed as such. It is the first day of the week; to Christians, the Lord's day.

The shadow-sabbath ended at the cross, as Paul has made clear. The next day was the day of resurrection, the day when the Lord Jesus came from the tomb. On that day a new day began -- the Lord's day. Christians immediately began to observe the Lord's day on the first day of the week. They ceased observing the Sabbath because it was ended by the fulfillment of its reality in the cross, and they began to observe the first day of the week. This is what you find reflected in the book of Acts. Justin Martyr, who writes from the 2nd century, says,

But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, when he changed the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ, our Savior, on the same day, rose from the dead.

 

[BobRyan]

Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

In the verse above we have two sets of commandments.
The commandments of Christ and the commandments of the Father.

.

Not according to Jesus in John's Gospel.

John 5:19 "19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner."

John 8:28 "28 So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.

John 12:49 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

John 14: "10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works."

Which is why in John 14:15 we see this
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

Instead of "keep My Commandments - not My Father's commandments - just mine"

And it is why John 15:10 does not say that either

Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

John said - Jesus kept His Father's Commandments.

John said -
1 John 2: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

Jesus is the that gave us the TEN Commandments - they were spoken by HiM as we see in the NEW Covenant

Heb 8
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

A New Covenant
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

Exegesis demands that the moral law of God written on the mind and heart in Jer 31:31-33 is the one that Jeremiah and his readers knew.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, when he changed the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ, our Savior, on the same day, rose from the dead.

A great example of calling for assembly on week-day-1 using a quote never found at all in the Bible.

 

[BobRyan]

http://www.ldolphin.org/sabbathrest.html

Quote
Therefore, let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath. These are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. (Colossians 2:13-17)

That should make it clear.

Colossians 2 is clear - that much is true.

Neither food nor drink nor Sabbath is being banned in Col 2.

Rather what is being banned is 'making stuff up'

"16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. 18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.

20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, 21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? 23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence."

This is not Paul - condemning the Bible - rather it is Paul condemning the man-made-religion that "makes stuff up"

 

[BobRyan]

...This is why the claims of the Seventh Day Adventists, the Seventh Day Baptists, and other groups, that Christians changed the sabbath, are absurd, ridiculous. They claim that the Pope changed the sabbath by a papal edict from Saturday to Sunday, and that around the third or fourth century Christians began to celebrate Sunday rather than Saturday, out of obedience to this papal edict.

Indeed they began celebrating week-day-1 instead of the 7th day as the Bible instructs.

And so - an entire thread dedicated to demonstrating that one point.

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/historicity-of-the-change-of-the-sabbath-commandment.7911734/

Where we find this --

================================

The Sabbath Commandment Ex 20:8-11 says that the "seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD Thy God".

And in Ex 16 we find these words "Tomorrow IS the Sabbath".

In Gen 2:1-3 the Sabbath is the 7th day of creation week - and according to Genesis 2 it is then that the Sabbath is "Sanctified", blessed, set apart.

The Baptist Confession of Faith, the Westminster Confession of Faith, D.L. Moody and many others admit that the "Sabbath was made for mankind" (Mark 2:27) and it began in Eden.

So then when - or how - was the Sabbath Commandment changed? How was the obligation, sanctity, blessing of the 7th day transferred to week-day-1??

One Catholic Author - of a commentary on the Baltimore Catechism - after Vatican II describes it this way

=====================================================

Leo Trese in his book "The Faith Explained" -- commentary on the Baltimore Catechism after Vatican II -

The Faith Explained (an RC commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican ii) states on Page 242 that
====================begin short summary
changing the Lord's day to Sunday was in the power of the church since "in the gospels ..Jesus confers upon his church the power to make laws in his name".

page 243

"Nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day From Saturday to Sunday. We know of the change only from the tradition of the Church - a fact handed down to us...that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many Non-Catholics, who say that they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and Yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church"

====================================== begin expanded quote
. (from "The Faith Explained" page 243

"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church
================================================

One Catholic poster on this section of the board describes it this way.

It is the transferring of the solemnity of the Sabbath to the Lord's Day (Sunday).

I know you don't like it that we did this. That's fine.

And how does the Bible define the "Solemnity" - the blessed, sanctified and binding obligation of the Sabbath -- in actual scripture.

Gen 2
2 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Ex 20: 8, 11
8 “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

So how is that the Law of God is up for "edit" for change? For taking one of the Commandments - and "repointing it" so that now "another day" is blessed, sanctified, and made holy??

It is simply called transferrence. Nothing more. Nothing less. The church has the authority to do this. It's like the government changing the route of a highway.

Indeed the RCC claims to have the authority to do that.

Possibly one more reason why the "sola scriptura" model of Acts 17:11 and Mark 7:6-13 gets some push back on certain threads by those who agree with the RCC's right to do such things.
===================================================== notice

One Catholic poster on this section of the board describes it this way.

It is the transferring of the solemnity of the Sabbath to the Lord's Day (Sunday).

I know you don't like it that we did this. That's fine.

 

[BABerean2]

Jesus is the that gave us the TEN Commandments - they were spoken by HiM as we see in the NEW Covenant

You are attempting to make the New Covenant a fulfillment of the Sinai Covenant.

This can only be done by ignoring the Abrahamic Covenant and the clear passages which say the Sinai Covenant was one of bondage to be cast out and that it was put in place until the Seed would come.

In Hebrews chapter 8 we are clearly told that the New Covenant would be different, the Israelites broke the Sinai covenant and God regarded them not.


Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.


Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
(The Sinai Covenant was made obsolete by the New Covenant.)

...................................................
Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
(The Sinai Covenant is one of bondage.)

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
(Paul clearly says that we are to cast out the Sinai Covenant. It could not be any clearer.)

Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

....................................................

Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
(It was put in place until the seed should come, which happened almost 2,000 years ago.)
....................................................

The New Covenant promise is a fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant.


Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.


Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

.

.

 

[Acts24Fourteen]

The Sabbath has absolutely NOTHING to do with Christianity. NOTHING!

It's almost as though they have some bizarre fetish about the Sabbath. I did a search on this site and could not find ONE example of BobRyan or maco talking about the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. NOT ONE! And each has HUNDREDS, if not THOUSANDS of examples of obsessively fixating on the Sabbath. I am convinced that is ONLY reason they talk so obsessively about the Sabbath: to denigrate and belittle the Resurrection. REAL Christian simply cannot RESIST celebrating the Resurrection on Resurrection Days (Easter and Sunday)

There is not question after my search that SDA is a vile, non-Christian cult that propounds a non-Christian scheme of Salvation by Sabbath Keeping and completely denounces both the Divinity of Jesus Christ and the World-Shattering effect of his Resurrection.

Jesus is YHVH [Jehovah] Emmanuel, the great I AM, the Eternal Word, Deity, Eternal Life within Himself, Unborrowed, Underived, God [even manifest in the flesh], the Son of the Father, Uncreated Creator, through whom all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that was made, ever having been with the Father. Lots of Scripture and SoP/ToJ [if necessary].

Yes, the resurrection of Jesus Christ was upon the "first [day] of the week", being the 16th of Abib/Nisan, in the year AD 31, and is extremely important, but is no more, nor no-less than the previous days to it, including the birth of Jesus, the whole life of Jesus [for without this, there would be no perfect sacrifice], the anointing at His baptism in the Jordan, in AD 27 by John the Baptist and the Holy Spirit, as well as the 'last supper' and that which was given therein, as well as the suffering of Jesus in Gethsemane, and on through unto Calvary, His death upon the Cross, as well as His rest [Sabbath] in the Tomb, leading into the Resurrection, and also ascension, and further into His great work as Great High Priest, being anointed in Heaven for that work, which has been ongoing from then, even until now, first in the Holy Place, and then in Oct. 22 1844 [the anti-typical Day of Atonement] moving into the Most Holy Place to Finish His work and the blotting out of sins, for then to return to claim us all, and then to take us back with Him, and then entering into the 1,000 Judgment by the saints in Heaven, and finally back to earth to bring an end to all the wicked in their resurrection and the carrying out of sentencing of the second death upon the earth, and then the Recreation of a New Heaven and a New Earth, and on into Eternity...

All of it needed. All of it foretold. All of it cannot be separated from any one piece. It is a package deal. For instance the Resurrection would be of no effect, without His work as the Great High Priest going on now.

The Holy 7th Day The Sabbath of the LORD [Jesus] thy God, is part of it all also. We as Seventh-day Adventists speak of it, because it is part of the great plan of redemption of man, especially in prophecy [Revelation 14:6-12 as an example], for Jesus Christ came to save us from our sins [1 John 3:4], not in them. A Christian that is truly keeping the Sabbath, bears the sign/seal of the Ever-living God, that they truly believe, by faith, that God is the Author [Creator] and Finisher [Sabbath, rest, atonement] of us and is demonstrated in their new life.

I would like to leave with you some helpful materials, as a gift to you, for you to use as you will or no, - For Jesus said, "... I will give [you] rest." [Exodus 33:14; Matthew 11:28]. Please consider those helpful tools and may God bless you as you do.

 

[BABerean2]

first in the Holy Place, and then in Oct. 22 1844 [the anti-typical Day of Atonement] moving into the Most Holy Place to Finish His work and the blotting out of sins

What is the relationship between Oct. 22, 1844 and William Miller's prediction of the Second Coming of Christ?

Where was Christ between the time of His ascension and Oct. 22, 1844?

What is your view of the "Shut Door" doctrine?

Was it finished at the Cross or did Christ have more work to finish later?


Joh_19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.


Documentation from the White Estate regarding "The Shut Door".

http://whiteestate.org/issues/shutdoor.html

.

 

[Steeno7]

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this but I would like some help with a deep theological question I have. In a Bible Study lesson I am taking, which I will just get right to it, claims that Satan's decepiton is the Sunday Worship. Clearly I am very sceptical about this and would like any answers on this particular subject. I have gone to another source and both of them seem to be against each other.

So is there any truth to these claims?

Why would you want to only worship God one day a week??

 

[BobRyan]

QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68742248, member: 235244"]Not according to Jesus in John's Gospel.

John 5:19 "19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner."

John 8:28 "28 So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.

John 12:49 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

John 14: "10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works."

Which is why in John 14:15 we see this
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

Instead of "keep My Commandments - not My Father's commandments - just mine"

And it is why John 15:10 does not say that either

Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

John said - Jesus kept His Father's Commandments.

John said -
1 John 2: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

Jesus is the that gave us the TEN Commandments - they were spoken by HiM as we see in the NEW Covenant

Heb 8
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

A New Covenant
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

Exegesis demands that the moral law of God written on the mind and heart in Jer 31:31-33 is the one that Jeremiah and his readers knew.

================================================

You are attempting to make the New Covenant a fulfillment of the Sinai Covenant.

Not in anything I have quoted above.

The LAW was kept by Abraham according to scripture. And Abraham was given the Gospel according to Gal 3:7. The LAW did not come as "a competing gospel" to either Abraham or to those at Sinai.

This can only be done by ignoring the Abrahamic Covenant and the clear passages which say the Sinai Covenant was one of bondage to be cast out

God is not the author of bondage or fake rules that if you keep them you will be cast out - according to the Bible. The rebellion of those at Sinai does not re-invent the faithfulness or justice of God.

In Hebrews chapter 8 we are clearly told that the New Covenant would be different, the Israelites broke the Sinai covenant and God regarded them not.

Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.


Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
(The Sinai Covenant was made obsolete by the New Covenant.)

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In Heb 8 we are told that it is CHRIST that gives the covenant at Sinai - it is CHRIST's commandments that are given on Sinai - and so the LAW that is known to Jeremiah and his readers - in Jer 31:31-33 is the LAW of Christ. Christ quotes no other one.

The idea that Lev 19:18, Matt 22, James 2 "Love your neighbor as yourself" is bondage in the NT - is not a NT idea.
The idea that Deut 6:5, Matt 22 "Love God with all your heart and soul" is to be called bondage in the NT - is foreign to the NT.
The idea that "Honor your parents" Ex 20:13, Eph 6:2 is to be called "Bondage in the NT" is foreign to the NT.

When James 2 says "he who breaks one - breaks them all" it only quotes the OT to make the point.

in Christ,

Bob