MRAs are secretly Necrophiliacs or Homosexuals

[Gadarene]

I know people targeted by GamerGate. I work with people targeted by GamerGate. One is no darling of mine, and I don't know if he's even a feminist. He's a marketing manager at a company that advertises on Gamasuta. He was targeted as part of operation disrespectful nod, an attempt by GamerGate to censor journalists that offend them by extorting their employers into firing them. His email was bombarded with hundreds of emails a day as part of the effort to censor journalist Leigh Alexander because she wrote an article that was critical of GamerGate.

Even the Onion satirized GamerGate's tendency to target the journalists that write anything critical about GamerGate.

Nope, again - you're responding to people pointing out harassment occurs on BOTH sides and is perpetrated by BOTH sides....by focusing on how horrible ONE side is. Fail.

If both sides are being crap to each other...and Gamergate is a hate movement because of how crap it is to people it disagrees with, then what does that make your side, eh?

Stop dodging, and be a bit more honest.

 

[Gadarene]

I don't condone any violence in regards to GamerGate, game development, men's rights, or feminism.

The IGDA provides resources for dealing with harassment. After the ordeal Zoe went through she created the Crash Override Network to assist people who are the targets of harassment. If you or someone you know has become targeted, please refer them to these resources.

I would love to know if Quinn's network would actually help Gamergaters. That'd be interesting to see, but so far I know of no examples of it.

 

[morningstar2651]

Nope, again - you're responding to people pointing out harassment occurs on BOTH sides and is perpetrated by BOTH sides....by focusing on how horrible ONE side is. Fail.

If both sides are being crap to each other...and Gamergate is a hate movement because of how crap it is to people it disagrees with, then what does that make your side, eh?

"My side", as you put it, is a reaction to organized campaigns of harassment and extortion.

 

[Gadarene]

"My side", as you put it, is a reaction to organized campaigns of harassment and extortion.

Which nonetheless engages in those exact same behaviours. You're not providing a distinguishing criterion here.

 

[morningstar2651]

I would love to know if Quinn's network would actually help Gamergaters. That'd be interesting to see, but so far I know of no examples of it.

I don't see why they wouldn't. Next time a GamerGater is harassed, you should refer them to these resources. They include things such as how to handle being doxxed.

 

[Gadarene]

I don't agree with your girlfriend. I'm not too informed on MRAs and what they're about, except the rare occasion you see something from self-professed MRA types that make the news or you come across online, et cetera.

I really wouldn't go by just the news. They don't really get a fair shake in the news.

*Caveat: I see men that simply want equality in things (such as fairness when it comes to recognition of domestic violence towards men and fairness in the court system when dealing with family and divorce issues) to be a completely different category. I do believe men don't necessarily have the social supports many like to assume they do. This is becoming a more recognized concern though. For example, a local organization in my city called The Center for Women and Families is going to undergo a more inclusive name change because they are dedicated to helping anyone in need of therapy, domestic abuse, and violence, which certainly includes men.

More recognised? What you describe is incredibly rare.

 

[Gadarene]

I don't see why they wouldn't. Next time a GamerGater is harassed, you should refer them to these resources. They include things such as how to handle being doxxed.

I'm not finding cases of Gamergate-sympathetic people who are helped by CO.

First impressions not great.

http://techraptor.net/content/imo-crash-override-network-dangerous

 

[jwu]

As for my beliefs - I believe that men and women should have equal rights and responsibilities. Sounds fair to me, does it sound fair to you?

Sounds fine to me, but for myself i like to add, "...while acknowledging that men and women do have biological differences."


Namely, pregnancy. It's both a burden and a privilege.
It's a burden because of the obvious implications about the income/job situation.
It's also a privilege because one can have a child with only very little "help" from a man.

Incorporating this in a fair way is actually quite a complex thing. I do believe that at least a part of the gender pay gap is actually fair, as it's the compensating disadvantage that comes with the advantage of being able to bear children on one's own.

 

[morningstar2651]

Which nonetheless engages in those exact same behaviours. You're not providing a distinguishing criterion here.

"My side" does not engage in organized militarized campaigns of extortion or harassment. "My side" is the game industry.

I can't think of the anti-GamerGate version of operation disrespectful nod, operation UV, operation 5 horsemen, operation untechnica, operation azure orbs, operation baby seal, operation firefly, operation gaben, operation kindness, or even operation skynet. Do you believe that there is a conspiracy within the game industry to target the employers of MRAs?

 

[Gadarene]

"My side" does not engage in organized militarized campaigns of extortion or harassment. "My side" is the game industry.

Militarised? Stop being melodramatic.

And the game industry is not your side, please. Most of it is neutral on the whole affair. You are what you are, which is an ideologue that can't handle criticism trying to force your ideology on the entire industry.

I can't think of the anti-GamerGate version of operation disrespectful nod, operation UV, operation 5 horsemen, operation untechnica, operation azure orbs, operation baby seal, operation firefly, operation gaben, operation kindness, or even operation skynet.

They don't have catchy chan names but I'd say creating an environment where you spin your opponents as a hate group which makes them fair game for exactly the same harassment you're decrying isn't really doing your side any favours.

Do you believe that there is a conspiracy within the game industry to target the employers of MRAs?

Let's stop you right there. The issue is not MRAs here. Gamergate is not an MRA movement, no matter how many times you chumps try and lump all your favourite boogeymen together within it. It's predominantly liberals tired of the actions of a particular liberal faction.

As to your question, yes, I think anyone in any industry who doesn't fall in line with feminist dogma or offends feminists will have feminists try and fire them. Tim Hunt springs to mind. The Ceo of mozilla is threatening to fire someone who complained on reddit about a feminist ex employee and about sjws if it turned out they worked for Mozilla. They didn't harass anyone, all they did wrong is having the 'wrong' opinion.

 

[Gadarene]

Your defence at this point appears to boil down to 'but our harassment isn't militarised' (lel)

Yes, bravo - 'the harassment our movement commits isn't quite as bad which means we're the right side' is *so* compelling.

 

[morningstar2651]

And the game industry is not your side, please. Most of it is neutral on the whole affair.

That wasn't my experience at GDC this year. Diversity in the industry was the topic of discussion this year with virtual reality technology coming in at second place. This year's game developer's choice awards featured a new episode of Hey Ash Whatcha Playin' about GamerGate and silly sock puppet jokes by Tim Schafer that offended GamerGate. Nathan Vella received a standing ovation when he spoke out against GamerGate at the Independent Games Festival.

• Open letter to the gaming community.
• Sony Computer Entertainment Europe president: Gamergate "absolutely horrible"
• 2,000 developers sign open letter against gaming hate speech: Studios including Rockstar North, Naughty Dog, DICE, and Infinity Ward have added to the growing numbers campaigning against GamerGate.
• GamerGate's Silver Lining: If nothing else, GamerGate has increased awareness of a significant problem in the gaming industry. While that was always the stated cause of its proponents, the problem the movement has made abundantly clear is that this industry has some profound issues in the way it treats women.
• Game devs urge you to write Intel in response to #GamerGate
• The most important news at CES is a $300 million response to GamerGate
• ESA: "There's no place in the video game community for threats"
  
• Adobe clarifies #gamergate stance: We are not and have never been aligned with Gamergate. We reject all forms of bullying, including the harassment of women by individuals associated with Gamergate. Every human being deserves respect, regardless of gender, orientation, appearance, personal hobbies or anything else that makes individuals who they are.
  
• Gamergate’s positive effect: We’re now talking about diversity
• Massachusetts congresswoman urges FBI to take Gamergate seriously

 

[seashale76]

More recognised? What you describe is incredibly rare.

I've been taught to screen and assess for domestic violence as a nursing student. Men's health and social support systems are also covered. So, at least in the health care field, it is more recognized.

 

[Gadarene]

That wasn't my experience at GDC this year. Diversity in the industry was the topic of discussion this year with virtual reality technology coming in at second place. This year's game developer's choice awards featured a new episode of Hey Ash Whatcha Playin' about GamerGate and silly sock puppet jokes by Tim Schafer that offended GamerGate. Nathan Vella received a standing ovation when he spoke out against GamerGate at the Independent Games Festival.

Schafer referred more directly to GG with the Not Your Shield gag, sure. Vella didn't actually mention gamergate once, he criticised harassment and doxxing. That isn't a criticism of Gamergate, that's a criticism of those behaviours, which exist on both side. Again, you are kidding yourself if you think otherwise. Speak out against those criticising gamergate, and you will also stand the risk of being on the receiving end of those exact same behaviours.

Open letter to the gaming community.

Doesn't mention Gamergate.

2,000 developers sign open letter against gaming hate speech

: Studios including Rockstar North, Naughty Dog, DICE, and Infinity Ward have added to the growing numbers campaigning against GamerGate.

Same as the first bulleted link. Still doesn't mention Gamergate in the original letter.

Ever consider maybe they're standing up to the aGG people who dox and harass as well?

GamerGate's Silver Lining

: If nothing else, GamerGate has increased awareness of a significant problem in the gaming industry. While that was always the stated cause of its proponents, the problem the movement has made abundantly clear is that this industry has some profound issues in the way it treats women.

From...yet another dime-a-dozen games journalist. Not a dev. Compelling

The most important news at CES is a $300 million response to GamerGate

Which isn't really that clear on how specifically it's a responsee to Gamergate. Then again, Gamergate isn't necessarily against women in games, just not necessarily forced quotas or one-sided politicking over the matter. This is no different from the Sony rep you quoted in an earlier link.

ESA: "There's no place in the video game community for threats"

Again, actual statement doesn't mention Gamergate. Threats of any kind indeed have no place here - including from who hold the "right" politically correct opinions.

Gamergate’s positive effect: We’re now talking about diversity

...like we totally weren't before, apparently.

Massachusetts congresswoman urges FBI to take Gamergate seriously

...and? Seriously, so what? Who is this woman, and why should I care?

Given the amount of assumptions going on in the usual aGG mindset, there have been an awful lot of threats against Gamergate meetups. Maybe the FBI should be investigating people on your side of things too

Overall, your point is not very well-founded. You may have a point if you limited your claim to the *indy* game scene, which is laughably right-on about these things, but otherwise it's a bit much to appropriate the entire gaming industry for your particular viewpoint. Most of your links don't even refer specifically to Gamergate when you get down to the actual statements being made, the links there are being drawn by febrile games journos with an axe to grind.

And even for those figures that are against Gamergate - so what? Maybe they've just been duped by the one-sided coverage of this affair like many have.

 

[Gadarene]

I've been taught to screen and assess for domestic violence as a nursing student. Men's health and social support systems are also covered. So, at least in the health care field, it is more recognized.

In that field at least, perhaps. I did see it mentioned during my last hospital trip.

 

[morningstar2651]

And even for those figures that are against Gamergate - so what? Maybe they've just been duped by the one-sided coverage of this affair like many have.

Duped by the liberal media? Fooled by false flags and paid shills?

Yeah, this thread is definitely in the right section of the forum.

Perhaps we've also all been duped by one-sided coverage of the KKK and they aren't really racist. -_-

Feel free to present the GG side of the story - What is GamerGate about? What changes does GamerGate want to see, why does GamerGate want these changes, and how does GamerGate go about making those changes happen?

 

[Gadarene]

Duped by the liberal media? Fooled by false flags and paid shills?

Yeah, this thread is definitely in the right section of the forum.

Not really, as it isn't a conspiracy. There simply isn't that much coverage of the same sort of harassment happening to the wrong people. The overwhelming majority of coverage was received by Saints Sarkeesian, Quinn and Wu.

This wasn't particularly hard to notice either, I checked most news reports listed on google every day for the first few months of the whole affair. Aside from a handful of journalists with integrity like Cathy Young, Erik Kain, David Auerback and a handful of VICE writers, the bulk of the coverage only focused on the feminist side of things and their accompanying narrative.

You don't need to appeal to conspiracy to explain this observation - simple bias and journalistic laziness suffice.

Perhaps we've also all been duped by one-sided coverage of the KKK and they aren't really racist. -_-

The difference is Gamergate isn't an organisation, nor is it universally bigoted as the KKK is by default, but you carry on thinking you're being clever by resorting to these laughable comparisons. Compare somewhere like KotakuinAction to Stormfront and see how far you get.

I also notice that, as usual, you've ignored the bulk of the counterpoints raised in favour of soundbites.

 

[Ironhold]

Bretibart.com editorial on the downfall of Gawker (mildly NSFW due to cursing)

Gamergate didn't target Gawker just to target Gawker.

It went after Gawker because Gawker writer Sam Biddle made a series of offensive Twitter posts, including "Ultimately #GamerGate is reaffirming what we’ve known to be true for decades: nerds should be constantly shamed and degraded into submission" and "Bring Back Bullying".

When word spread that a Gawker writer was advocating that "nerds" should be bullied back into submission, Gawker's sponsors started pulling the plug. It was all downhill from there, and no number of fake apologies could slow that down.

 

[Ironhold]

Weekly Standard article on Christina Hoff Summers

Relevant part:

In May, she was the guest of honor at a Washington, D.C., meetup of “Gamergate” supporters—video gamers concerned about radical feminism’s influence in the video game industry (more on that later). In response, Salon and Daily Beast columnist Arthur Chu started a social media campaign to pressure the bar where the gamers were meeting to drop the event and sent emails to the venue accusing them of hosting a “right-wing hate group.” Despite the pressure, the owner of the bar, Local 16, emailed Sommers to tell her they “would never keep any group out. This is America.” A bomb threat soon followed, necessitating a heavy police presence and a tour of Local 16 by bomb-sniffing dogs.

So:

1. A female speaker was to address a Gamergate meetup.

2. A male author tried to pressure the bar that was to host the event into kicking them out.

3. When the writer's efforts failed, a bomb threat was placed.

Yeah.

Could somebody please explain how "calling in bomb threats" advances the cause of womens' rights?

 

[Ironhold]

Feel free to present the GG side of the story - What is GamerGate about? What changes does GamerGate want to see, why does GamerGate want these changes, and how does GamerGate go about making those changes happen?

Here ya go. (mildly NSFW)

To quote the article:

Basically, GamerGaters believe the video gaming press is hopelessly biased and deeply incestuous. Writers at important outlets prop up indie developers with whom they are friendly (and sometimes amorously involved) while using their platform to expound a worldview that is, at best, tangentially related to the actual practice of gaming. Endless essays on gender representations or the fact that women are treated poorly by (some) gamers are drowning out, you know, coverage of games people actually play.