US Christians and the King James Version

[Phil112]

As you would be unlikely to ever come across a serious contemporary theological book that uses the KJV, then we can justifiably say that the KJV is for those who are essentially not that well educated in the things of the Lord.

Really? Did you really say that people like me, that prefer the KJV, aren't knowledgeable in the word?
Do YOU believe the word? I do, and study and prayer is all it takes to learn about the word.
I'll leave you with a passage that you seem to be unfamiliar with:
1 John 2:26,27 "These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

I rather doubt that any bible school "educated" person knows anything more about bible doctrine than a well studied KJV believer.

 

[Phil112]

..........................And the need for newer translations is simple...the KJV's language is archaic, not reflecting the many changes in English that've occurred since 1611. For example, how many average readers of the KJV know that in 1611, "prevent" could also mean "precede" or 'let' also could mean "hinder" or "restrain"?........................

That my friend, is where diligent study comes in. Look, my salvation, my eternal destiny is in that book. I'm going to take it serious and be as certain as I am able to understand what God's spirit inspired men to write.

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

 

[robycop3]

Really? Did you really say that people like me, that prefer the KJV, aren't knowledgeable in the word?
Do YOU believe the word? I do, and study and prayer is all it takes to learn about the word.
I'll leave you with a passage that you seem to be unfamiliar with:
1 John 2:26,27 "These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

I rather doubt that any bible school "educated" person knows anything more about bible doctrine than a well studied KJV believer.

And MAN invented, and teaches, the KJVO myth.

 

[Biblicist]

I rather doubt that any bible school "educated" person knows anything more about bible doctrine than a well studied KJV believer.

It seems that you believe that those who have received some education from a Bible College that they are automatically non-KJV users - Bravo!

 

[kiwimac]

That my friend, is where diligent study comes in. Look, my salvation, my eternal destiny is in that book. I'm going to take it serious and be as certain as I am able to understand what God's spirit inspired men to write.

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

Actually the word "study," in 1611, meant to be diligent or give diligence to something. Not to throw yourself into deeply considering or researching a topic.

 

[Steve Petersen]

If you really want to know what the Bible says and you don't trust translators, you will need to learn Hebrew and Greek, then read ALL the manuscripts and variants. When you have achieved all that, you will STILL have to figure out what is original and what was added or deleted by copyists.

 

[Phil112]

It seems that you believe that those who have received some education from a Bible College that they are automatically non-KJV users - Bravo!

Actually the word "study," in 1611, meant to be diligent or give diligence to something. Not to throw yourself into deeply considering or researching a topic.

How I used that word supports my thoughts. Perhaps you should study more. Just saying.................

2 Timothy 2:15 - study, from Strongs
4704 NT - Greek
[spoudazw]
spoudazo spoo-dad'-zo
from [spoudh] - spoude 4710; to use speed, i.e. to make effort, be prompt or earnest:--do (give) diligence, be diligent (forward), endeavour, labour, study.

 

[Biblicist]

How I used that word supports my thoughts. Perhaps you should study more. Just saying.................

2 Timothy 2:15 - study, from Strongs
4704 NT - Greek
[spoudazw]
spoudazo spoo-dad'-zo
from [spoudh] - spoude 4710; to use speed, i.e. to make effort, be prompt or earnest:--do (give) diligence, be diligent (forward), endeavour, labour, study.

Would the following lexical information be of any assistance. A cursory reading of the lexcial information for ὀρθοτομέω orthotomeo should show that our efforts & diligence will be governed or limited by our current skills and knowledge. So for a new Christian who lacks the required skills then little would be expected; for those who have refined their skills and knowledge then far more would be expected.

VGNT Dictionary (From BibleWorks 9)

3934 σπουδάζω [pg 585]
σπουδάζω,
“make haste,” and so “am eager,” “give diligence,” with the further idea of “effort,” as in Gal 210. For σπουδάζω followed by acc. c. inf., as in 2 Pet 115 for which Mayor ad l. can supply only one ex. [Plato] Alc. sec. 141 σπουδάσαντες τοῦτ᾽ αὐτοῖς παραγενέσθαι, we can cite BGU IV. 108014 (iii/A.D.) σπούδασον ἡμᾶς καταξιῶσαι τῶν ἴσ@ω]ν γραμμάτων, P Oxy VII. 106910 (iii/A.D.) θέλω δὲ εἰδένε πῶς σπουδάδεις (l. σπουδάζεις) αὐτὼ γενέστε (l. αὐτὸ γενέσθαι), “I wish to know that you are hurrying on the making of it” (Ed.), and ib. VI. 93918 (iv/A.D.) (= Selections, p. 129) ἕτερά σε γράμματα ἐπικαταλαβεῖν ἐσπούδασα διὰ Εὐφροσύνου, “I am anxious that you should receive another letter by Euphrosynus” (Edd.).
For the verb c. the simple inf. cf. ib. XIV. 17658 (iii/A.D.) σπούδασον γράψαι μοι, and P Amh II. 1447 (v/A.D.) σπούδασον οὖν τὸ μικρὸ@ν] παιδίον ἡμῶν Ἀρτεμίδωρον .]] θεῖναι ἐν ὑποθήκῃ, “make haste therefore and put our little slave Artemidorus under pledge” (Edd.); and c. the acc., cf. P Fay 11218 (A.D. 99) μὴ σπουδασέτωσαν ἅλω ανταloμμινα, “do not let them be in a hurry with the … threshing-floor,” and P Bouriant 2039 (after A.D. 350) σπουδασάτω τὴν χορηγίαν. This last papyrus shows us also 36 τοῦτο γὰρ σπουδάζει, “car c’est le but qu’on se propose” (Ed.).
Other instances of the verb with varying meanings and constructions are: P Hib I. 774 (B.C. 249) καθάπερ ὁ βασιλεὺς σπουδάζει, “in accordance with the king’s desire,” P Oxy VII. 106116 (B.C. 22) συντύχηι καὶ σπουδάσει ἕως ὅτου τελεσθῆ@ι, “that he may meet him and do his best until it is effected” (Ed.) (for constr. see Blass-Debrunner § 369. 3), P Oxy IV. 7468 (A.D. 16) τοῦτο οὖν ἐάν σοι φα@ί]νηται σπουδάσεις κατὰ τὸ δίκαιον, “please therefore further him in this matter, as is just” (Edd.), ib. I. 11324 (ii/A.D.) σπούδασον ἕως οὗ ἀγοράσῃ mοι Ὀννῶφρις ἃ αὐτῶι εἴρηκεν μήτ(ηρ) Εἰρήνης, “take care that Onnophris buys me what Irene’s mother told him” (Edd.), and from the inscrr. Syll3 434/519 (B.C. 266–5) φανερός ἐστιν σπουδάζων ὑπὲρ τῆς κοινῆς τ@ῶν] Ἑλλήνων ἐλευθερίας, and C. and B. ii. p. 470, No. 309 σπουδασάντων κὲ τῶν συνβιωτῶν κὲ λ®β® ἄλλων, of co-operation in the building of a tomb.​

LSJ Lexicon

39494 σπουδάζω
σπουδάζω, f. άσομαι: aor. i ἐσπούδασα: pf. ἐσπούδακα:_Pass., aor. i ἐσπουδάσθην: pf. ἐσπούδασμαι:
I. intr. to make haste,
1. of things, to be busy, eager, zealous, earnest to do a thing, c. inf., Soph., etc.; also, σπ. περί τινος or τι Xen., Plat.; εἔις or πρός τι Dem.; ἐπί τινι Xen.
2. of persons, σπ. πρός τινα to be busy with him, Plat.; σπ. περί τινα to be anxious for his success, canvass for him, Xen.; ὑπέρ τινος Dem.
3. absol. to be serious or earnest, Ar., etc.; ἐσπουδακότι προσώπῳ with a grave face, Xen.
II. trans.,
1. c. acc. rei, to do anything hastily or earnestly, Eur., Plat., etc._Pass. to be zealously pursued, Eur., etc.:-esp. in pf. part., serious, Plat., etc.
2. Pass., also, of persons, to be treated with respect, to be courted, Arist., etc.​

 

[Shane R]

Back to the OP: I know a number of people who quote KJV in their writing because it is public domain. Some do it because it is the liturgical/traditional norm in their fellowship. As Biblicist2 pointed out, this is not usually academic writing. Most academic texts will use something contemporary and based on the principle of formal equivalence. The most pretentious writers will make their own translation as they work.

 

[ktírio]

Would the following lexical information be of any assistance. A cursory reading of the lexcial information for ὀρθοτομέω orthotomeo should show that our efforts & diligence will be governed or limited by our current skills and knowledge. So for a new Christian who lacks the required skills then little would be expected; for those who have refined their skills and knowledge then far more would be expected.

VGNT Dictionary (From BibleWorks 9)

3934 σπουδάζω [pg 585]
σπουδάζω,
“make haste,” and so “am eager,” “give diligence,” with the further idea of “effort,” as in Gal 210. For σπουδάζω followed by acc. c. inf., as in 2 Pet 115 for which Mayor ad l. can supply only one ex. [Plato] Alc. sec. 141 σπουδάσαντες τοῦτ᾽ αὐτοῖς παραγενέσθαι, we can cite BGU IV. 108014 (iii/A.D.) σπούδασον ἡμᾶς καταξιῶσαι τῶν ἴσ@ω]ν γραμμάτων, P Oxy VII. 106910 (iii/A.D.) θέλω δὲ εἰδένε πῶς σπουδάδεις (l. σπουδάζεις) αὐτὼ γενέστε (l. αὐτὸ γενέσθαι), “I wish to know that you are hurrying on the making of it” (Ed.), and ib. VI. 93918 (iv/A.D.) (= Selections, p. 129) ἕτερά σε γράμματα ἐπικαταλαβεῖν ἐσπούδασα διὰ Εὐφροσύνου, “I am anxious that you should receive another letter by Euphrosynus” (Edd.).
For the verb c. the simple inf. cf. ib. XIV. 17658 (iii/A.D.) σπούδασον γράψαι μοι, and P Amh II. 1447 (v/A.D.) σπούδασον οὖν τὸ μικρὸ@ν] παιδίον ἡμῶν Ἀρτεμίδωρον .]] θεῖναι ἐν ὑποθήκῃ, “make haste therefore and put our little slave Artemidorus under pledge” (Edd.); and c. the acc., cf. P Fay 11218 (A.D. 99) μὴ σπουδασέτωσαν ἅλω ανταloμμινα, “do not let them be in a hurry with the … threshing-floor,” and P Bouriant 2039 (after A.D. 350) σπουδασάτω τὴν χορηγίαν. This last papyrus shows us also 36 τοῦτο γὰρ σπουδάζει, “car c’est le but qu’on se propose” (Ed.).
Other instances of the verb with varying meanings and constructions are: P Hib I. 774 (B.C. 249) καθάπερ ὁ βασιλεὺς σπουδάζει, “in accordance with the king’s desire,” P Oxy VII. 106116 (B.C. 22) συντύχηι καὶ σπουδάσει ἕως ὅτου τελεσθῆ@ι, “that he may meet him and do his best until it is effected” (Ed.) (for constr. see Blass-Debrunner § 369. 3), P Oxy IV. 7468 (A.D. 16) τοῦτο οὖν ἐάν σοι φα@ί]νηται σπουδάσεις κατὰ τὸ δίκαιον, “please therefore further him in this matter, as is just” (Edd.), ib. I. 11324 (ii/A.D.) σπούδασον ἕως οὗ ἀγοράσῃ mοι Ὀννῶφρις ἃ αὐτῶι εἴρηκεν μήτ(ηρ) Εἰρήνης, “take care that Onnophris buys me what Irene’s mother told him” (Edd.), and from the inscrr. Syll3 434/519 (B.C. 266–5) φανερός ἐστιν σπουδάζων ὑπὲρ τῆς κοινῆς τ@ῶν] Ἑλλήνων ἐλευθερίας, and C. and B. ii. p. 470, No. 309 σπουδασάντων κὲ τῶν συνβιωτῶν κὲ λ®β® ἄλλων, of co-operation in the building of a tomb.​

LSJ Lexicon

39494 σπουδάζω
σπουδάζω, f. άσομαι: aor. i ἐσπούδασα: pf. ἐσπούδακα:_Pass., aor. i ἐσπουδάσθην: pf. ἐσπούδασμαι:
I. intr. to make haste,
1. of things, to be busy, eager, zealous, earnest to do a thing, c. inf., Soph., etc.; also, σπ. περί τινος or τι Xen., Plat.; εἔις or πρός τι Dem.; ἐπί τινι Xen.
2. of persons, σπ. πρός τινα to be busy with him, Plat.; σπ. περί τινα to be anxious for his success, canvass for him, Xen.; ὑπέρ τινος Dem.
3. absol. to be serious or earnest, Ar., etc.; ἐσπουδακότι προσώπῳ with a grave face, Xen.
II. trans.,
1. c. acc. rei, to do anything hastily or earnestly, Eur., Plat., etc._Pass. to be zealously pursued, Eur., etc.:-esp. in pf. part., serious, Plat., etc.
2. Pass., also, of persons, to be treated with respect, to be courted, Arist., etc.​

Why would we need more lexicons, with more information about how words were used?

Only the strong are Strong's Only.

Gives me everything I need to be saved.

 

[actionsub]

Back to the OP: I know a number of people who quote KJV in their writing because it is public domain. Some do it because it is the liturgical/traditional norm in their fellowship. As Biblicist2 pointed out, this is not usually academic writing. Most academic texts will use something contemporary and based on the principle of formal equivalence. The most pretentious writers will make their own translation as they work.

And there it is right there. Follow the money. The more modern versions are under copyright protection in the US; the main exception is the KJV. To quote from a modern version extensively might require royalties to the owners of the versions. For instance, the Southern Baptists used the NIV as an alternate translation in their Sunday School literature. After awhile, the SBC began to chafe a bit at paying Zondervan royalties, not to mention some of the editorial decisions that were made in updating the translation bumped up against some SBC core values (ex. inclusive language). The Southern Baptist solution, as famously stated by Albert Mohler, was "we need a Bible we can control." Hence, the Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB) was commissioned. (Some wags claim that the initials stand for Hard Core Southern Baptist...)

 

[Biblicist]

Why would we need more lexicons, with more information about how words were used?

Only the strong are Strong's Only.

Gives me everything I need to be saved.

You mean, why should we rely on the collective wisdom of an almost countless number of scholars who have at their fingertips the combined knowledge from many thousands of ancient documents; when all we need to do is go and spend $10 for an old work that was compiled by a single individual somewhere around 130 years ago who had a far smaller selection of such documents available to him – I wonder!

Years ago I undertook a course on how to use the lexicons and concordances that were then available; on the first night the lecturer said that would start with Strong’s Concordance, this was prior to the availability of the better concordances that we now have. Anyway, to my shame, I remember thinking to myself, what a waste of time this will be as we all know how to use Strong’s. By the end of the session my attitude changed as I soon realised that all that I had done over the years prior to that night was that I had misused and abused Strong’s more than anything else.

Over the next few months we added some more titles to our repertoire where these books were first printed in the 1800’s so they were cheap being out of copyright. Now these books have been packed away as I’ve now obtained a number of far better references which help me to avoid the more common exegetical fallacies that we tend to far too easily fall into.

 

[kiwimac]

And there it is right there. Follow the money. The more modern versions are under copyright protection in the US; the main exception is the KJV. To quote from a modern version extensively might require royalties to the owners of the versions. For instance, the Southern Baptists used the NIV as an alternate translation in their Sunday School literature. After awhile, the SBC began to chafe a bit at paying Zondervan royalties, not to mention some of the editorial decisions that were made in updating the translation bumped up against some SBC core values (ex. inclusive language). The Southern Baptist solution, as famously stated by Albert Mohler, was "we need a Bible we can control." Hence, the Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB) was commissioned. (Some wags claim that the initials stand for Hard Core Southern Baptist...)

Actually the KJV is under permanent Crown copyright both in the UK and the British Commonwealth.

 

[robycop3]

And there it is right there. Follow the money. The more modern versions are under copyright protection in the US; the main exception is the KJV. To quote from a modern version extensively might require royalties to the owners of the versions. For instance, the Southern Baptists used the NIV as an alternate translation in their Sunday School literature. After awhile, the SBC began to chafe a bit at paying Zondervan royalties, not to mention some of the editorial decisions that were made in updating the translation bumped up against some SBC core values (ex. inclusive language). The Southern Baptist solution, as famously stated by Albert Mohler, was "we need a Bible we can control." Hence, the Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB) was commissioned. (Some wags claim that the initials stand for Hard Core Southern Baptist...)

Sir, the KJV has ALWAYS been under British copyright since its publication. The Barker family, the king's printers in 1611, held the copyright for nearly 200 years. The current holders are the Universities of Cambridge and Oxford, Ayres & Spottiswoode, and Harper Collins Co.

NO Bible version is published to not make money. SOMEONE SOMEWHERE pays for the 'free' Gideon Bibles to be printed. Printers exist to make money! When a book ceases selling, its printer ceases printing it, simple as that!

And in the USA, a copyrighted bible may be freely employed for its intended use. A preacher may freely quote as much of any given version he chooses, post it on social media, etc. or print it on free tracts and study helps. The prohibition is to MAKE MONEY from such use. One may not copy from a copyrighted bible and sell such copies without making arrangements with the copyright holders.

The "copyrights" excuse is a part of the false KJVO myth.

 

[Armoured]

Sir, the KJV has ALWAYS been under British copyright since its publication. The Barker family, the king's printers in 1611, held the copyright for nearly 200 years. The current holders are the Universities of Cambridge and Oxford, Ayres & Spottiswoode, and Harper Collins Co.

NO Bible version is published to not make money. SOMEONE SOMEWHERE pays for the 'free' Gideon Bibles to be printed. Printers exist to make money! When a book ceases selling, its printer ceases printing it, simple as that!

And in the USA, a copyrighted bible may be freely employed for its intended use. A preacher may freely quote as much of any given version he chooses, post it on social media, etc. or print it on free tracts and study helps. The prohibition is to MAKE MONEY from such use. One may not copy from a copyrighted bible and sell such copies without making arrangements with the copyright holders.

The "copyrights" excuse is a part of the false KJVO myth.

Ummm... is this accurate? Don't copyrights expire after, iirc, 50 yers? That's why there's no copyright on Shakespeare, wouldn't the KJV be similar?

 

[Armoured]

Actually the KJV is under permanent Crown copyright both in the UK and the British Commonwealth.

How does that work?

 

[Biblicist]

Ummm... is this accurate? Don't copyrights expire after, iirc, 50 yers? That's why there's no copyright on Shakespeare, wouldn't the KJV be similar?

Yes, but I was under the "impression" that the copyright in perpetuity was held by the British Crown, though this could be incorrect. I know that Oxford and Cambridge Universities produced their own revisions where the Oxford (1769) became the standard KJV text. Could it be that these universities might each maintain the copyright to their own editions where possibly the Crown holds the overall copyright where these two Universities have obtained rights under the Crown to publish their own editions?

 

[brinny]

IMHO it is less and less so, but you must realize it was the go to translation for so many years in the congregations here in the USA that people simply use what they were raised on. As people are getting better educated about the various translations, I feel this is changing.

That's not why i read it.

 

[brinny]

I used the NIV in college. Then I took 2 years of Greek, classical and koine. I use the KJV now.

Thank you for sharing that.

Just as a side note i don't find it "hard" to read at all.

 

[abysmul]

That's not why i read it.

I didn't say it was... ?