Bobby Jindal proposes doing away with Supreme Court

[Root of Jesse]

How does that apply here? Wedding cake or nor wedding cake, the marriage (which I can make a good arguement isn't sinful in itself), is going to happen. So using this logic, you are not sinning since you do not have the power to stop the sin anyway.

But if you know someone is going to sin, and you have an obligation not to encourage it, you're supposed to act on that obligation.

 

[lasthero]

I remember this ad that ran a few years ago, where

But if you know someone is going to sin, and you have an obligation not to encourage it, you're supposed to act on that obligation.

You sell wedding cakes.
You know that, in America at least, there is a high number of people who are in their second marriages, or worse.
You know that the chances of you baking a cake for someone in such a marriage are nigh-unavoidable. Sure, you'll bake plenty of cakes for fine, Christian weddings, but at least some small percentage will be for the bad kind.

With all this knowledge, how is continuing to bake these cakes not a sin?

 

[Root of Jesse]

pYou're just wrong. Some mothers and daughters do not get on, and are estranged as soon as the daughter leaves the home. Both my daughter-in-law and my "maybe" one day DIL have poor relationships with, in one case, a careless and neglectful mom, and on the other an obsessive, controlling mom. There is no special bond between these girls and their mom, and I know many adult women who also had awful relationships with their moms.

Why are you always going to the exceptions? There are always exceptions in everything on earth. That's not the norm, though. I disliked my parents all the while I was living in their home. Hated their rules, tried to break them every chance I got. My mom and dad fought openly, verbally. I left as soon as I could. 20 years later, I realized they were right. Their rules had a reason, even if they didn't explain them, other than "because I say so."
Your three or four cases, plus my one, doesn't mean diddly. Every family is dysfunctional. They all have positives, they ALL have negatives.

There aren't "huge" differences between males and females. We're all humans, aren't we? What do you think that single parents do? Do you think that a dad can't rear his daughters or a mom can't raise her sons? I have fantastic relationships with my sons as well as my daughters, and we all talk about "the details" btw. Men/dads can talk to their daughters about periods and sex, in fact it's a good thing if they can, because it can offset a lot of a girl's embarrassment if her dad is able to just be entirely normal about what is a simple, biological process. And that same dad can lead his sons to be equally normal about the process. It's not a big, forbidden subject. One of my daughter recently asked her moody brother if he had the painters in, which led to a big round of laughs. That's how normal families interact.

It's not that men can't raise girls and women can't raise boys. My dad taught me things my mother never could have, my mother taught me things my dad didn't know. And it's true in all cases. It's not that women only can teach girls about periods, and so on.

And yet I had a terrible relationship with my dad who was emotionally absent from my life until about ten years before he died. None of this is cut and dried. People are people, not perfect cookie cutter moms/dads/daughters/sons.

I disagree. Any parent who loves their child is that child's perfect parent. Whether they are an adopted child, or a stepchild or a biological child. Love is what matters.

Again, we're all fallen, nobody's perfect. But it's BETTER for a child's mother and father to raise the child. Who's more likely to make the sacrifice for their own blood? Being BETTER doesn't mean that other combinations CAN"T work, just that one is preferable over the other.

 

[DaisyDay]

Yes, but the passage you're talking about refers specifically to someone slapping your cheek, that you should turn the other one. Speaks to nothing of stealing.

You're not familiar with the rest of the passage?

In fact, there's a commandment about that. There's none about slapping someone's cheek. By the way, you DO know that turning the other cheek is an act of defiance, in that day, time, and region?

No, certainly not. That's something someone made up to get out of what the passage is saying. Give him your shirt, walk the extra mile? There is context.

 

[AirPo]

But if you know someone is going to sin, and you have an obligation not to encourage it, you're supposed to act on that obligation.

What about the baker's legal obligation to accommodate the public equally?

And I thought all people are sinners. Doesn't that mean everyone who walks through the door is going to sin?

 

[PapaZoom]

pYou're just wrong. Some mothers and daughters do not get on, and are estranged as soon as the daughter leaves the home. Both my daughter-in-law and my "maybe" one day DIL have poor relationships with, in one case, a careless and neglectful mom, and on the other an obsessive, controlling mom. There is no special bond between these girls and their mom, and I know many adult women who also had awful relationships with their moms.

You can't cite an exception and then claim it's a rule.

There aren't "huge" differences between males and females.

Of course there are huge differences. Men and women are different. I see it all the time in my line of work. And as I said, there are plenty of studies that show what I'm saying is true: http://dailysignal.com/2013/03/15/social-science-confirms-kids-need-married-moms-and-dads/

We're all humans, aren't we? What do you think that single parents do? Do you think that a dad can't rear his daughters or a mom can't raise her sons? I have fantastic relationships with my sons as well as my daughters, and we all talk about "the details" btw. Men/dads can talk to their daughters about periods and sex, in fact it's a good thing if they can, because it can offset a lot of a girl's embarrassment if her dad is able to just be entirely normal about what is a simple, biological process. And that same dad can lead his sons to be equally normal about the process. It's not a big, forbidden subject. One of my daughter recently asked her moody brother if he had the painters in, which led to a big round of laughs. That's how normal families interact.

I refer you back to what I actually said: "No two men can replace the love of a mother and no two women can replace the love of a father. I know, I know. There are single families and other family configurations. I get it. But in an ideal world, a loving father and a loving mother in a proper healthy relationship is better than any loving homosexual couple - by a long shot."

If you're a single parent, you do what you have to do. But you're fooling yourself if you think single parenting is on a par with a two parent family. The stats don't support it. And your situation cannot serve as a "rule." I have a fantastic relationship with my daughter. But it's NOT the same as the relationship my wife has with her. Being human has nothing to do with it. Men and women differ in many ways both physically and psychologically. It's simply a fact of life and protestations to the contrary won't change that fact.

And yet I had a terrible relationship with my dad who was emotionally absent from my life until about ten years before he died. None of this is cut and dried. People are people, not perfect cookie cutter moms/dads/daughters/sons.

I'm sorry for that. I know women who have a similar story. That doesn't change the fact that the relationship between a father and a daughter is special and differs from the mom/daughter relationship. Sociological studies verify this fact.

I disagree. Any parent who loves their child is that child's perfect parent. Whether they are an adopted child, or a stepchild or a biological child. Love is what matters.

Not true. Those configurations can be effective and often are. But the fact that many adopted children seek out their biological parents is testimony that things weren't "perfect" for them. They needed to connect to their roots. All sociological studies (worth their salt) demonstrate the fact that a mother father parenting family is the best for the child's all around development.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I remember this ad that ran a few years ago, where


You sell wedding cakes.
You know that, in America at least, there is a high number of people who are in their second marriages, or worse.
You know that the chances of you baking a cake for someone in such a marriage are nigh-unavoidable. Sure, you'll bake plenty of cakes for fine, Christian weddings, but at least some small percentage will be for the bad kind.

With all this knowledge, how is continuing to bake these cakes not a sin?

Because you're selling cakes to people you're not familiar with, whose problems are none of your business. Now, if they come in and say "I'm on my fourth wedding, and this is his fifth, be a good man and bake us a cake", you have every obligation, if your conscience objects, to not taking their business.

 

[DaisyDay]

Why are you always going to the exceptions?

Because you said:

It is always optimal to have both parents, the male and the female, involved in the rearing of children. Even dysfunctional parents.

What do you think "always" means? It means "without exception" and you are demonstrably wrong about this.

 

[PapaZoom]

What, EXACTLY, does it mean for a daughter to have a Mom, and why can two Dad's NEVER convey this same message? No vague outpourings, no fuzzy sentiments. What can a Mom do that a Dad CAN'T do?

Relate as a woman. A dad can't do that. No dad can. Period.

 

[AirPo]

Why are you always going to the exceptions?

Because they refute the point being discussed.

There are always exceptions in everything on earth. That's not the norm, though. I disliked my parents all the while I was living in their home. Hated their rules, tried to break them every chance I got. My mom and dad fought openly, verbally. I left as soon as I could. 20 years later, I realized they were right. Their rules had a reason, even if they didn't explain them, other than "because I say so."
Your three or four cases, plus my one, doesn't mean diddly. Every family is dysfunctional. They all have positives, they ALL have negatives.

Including families that have same sex parents. The same sex part being neutral.

It's not that men can't raise girls and women can't raise boys. My dad taught me things my mother never could have, my mother taught me things my dad didn't know. And it's true in all cases. It's not that women only can teach girls about periods, and so on.
Again, we're all fallen, nobody's perfect. But it's BETTER for a child's mother and father to raise the child. Who's more likely to make the sacrifice for their own blood? Being BETTER doesn't mean that other combinations CAN"T work, just that one is preferable over the other.

No it's not. Making a blanket "it's BETTER" is just plain wrong.

 

[AirPo]

Relate as a woman. A dad can't do that. No dad can. Period.

That's not a problem though.

 

[PapaZoom]

What do you think single dads do when their wives die? Or when their wives leave? There is at least one single dad that I know of who is posting on this forum, and I actually don't know if he has a daughter, but I think he probably does. Should he give up his daughter for adoption so she can have a mom?

You seem to be missing the point. I know that single parenting is a reality. But it's not equal to a two parent mom/dad family. Just because you know a single dad doesn't magically make that relationship just as preferable as a two-parent mom/dad family. You're argument is getting silly.

 

[bhsmte]

Because you're selling cakes to people you're not familiar with, whose problems are none of your business. Now, if they come in and say "I'm on my fourth wedding, and this is his fifth, be a good man and bake us a cake", you have every obligation, if your conscience objects, to not taking their business.

Why would a Christian baker, with such strong desires to not promote sin, voluntarily put themselves in the position of selling cakes to all the sinners that will walk in their door?

Make the business private, where you can better filter out the sins you want to focus on.

 

[PapaZoom]

That's not a problem though.

because?

 

[PapaZoom]

And not all moms give that great of love, you know. Please, for goodness sake. Women/moms are not perfect. I have one close friend whose mom was a narcissist. She had a terrible childhood. I have known other women who have told me similar horror stories. People can raise people, regardless of gender.

Not all same sex couples give that great of love. Same sex couples are not perfect. I know of same sex couples where the child, after growing up, resented not having a mom. Stories abound. They don't demonstrate the norm but exceptions.

 

[PapaZoom]

Apparently only moms know about - shhhh, whisper - periods. The word that can't be said.

That misses the greater point. It's not about periods. It's about the kind of relationship only a mom can bring and only a dad can be a dad. Do you not understand this?

 

[Nic Samojluk]

Sometimes the wise thing to do for the sake of the children is to split.

Jesus said: Moses allowed divorce because of the hardness of your heart.

Even when the broken relationship between adults is damaging the kids?

Ask the children! Having two homes and two sets of parents is rather confusing to children.

 

[bhsmte]

Jesus said: Moses allowed divorce because of the hardness of your heart.


Ask the children! Having two homes and two sets of parents is rather confusing to children.

Having two parents who are in constant conflict with one another, can have a much more damaging impact.

Ask any child psychologist.

 

[PapaZoom]

Having two parents who are in constant conflict with one another, can have a much more damaging impact.

Ask any child psychologist.

I believe this is true and I've spent a huge portion of my adult life working with families. But what logically follows from what you posted?

 

[bhsmte]

I believe this is true and I've spent a huge portion of my adult life working with families. But what logically follows from what you posted?

Creating the best situation you can for the kids, absent the constant conflict.

When I got divorced, it was a pastor who told us, don't keep the relationship going because you think it is best for the kids, because it does more harm, than good.