Change in America

[JustOneWay]

Not totally, but we pay for food stamps and other ancillary services (medical, emergency room is a big cost).

Then, I take it you cannot source the comment. Pulling numbers out of thin air, are we?

 

[Armoured]

Then, I take it you cannot source the comment. Pulling numbers out of thin air, are we?

...like 60% unemployment.

I don't think even failed states have those sorts of numbers.

 

[revanneosl]

Eligibility to receive TANF (commonly referred to as "welfare) expires for any given recipient after 60 months of benefits. Those 60 months are cumulative over the recipient's lifetime.

Nobody receives welfare for more than 5 years in their lifetime.

There is no such thing as "generational welfare."

 

[JustOneWay]

...like 60% unemployment.

I don't think even failed states have those sorts of numbers.

Yes, although that figure may include children and retired people. Who knows?

 

[revanneosl]

And the blind. And the severely handicapped. And the comatose. And the incarcerated (who do work, but for mere cents an hour, but are nevertheless counted as "unemployed")

 

[outsidethecamp]

This is a few years old so the numbers are even worse, now.

The national debt is at $16 trillion, more than the entire GDP of the United States last year. High as it is, that debt is about to soar. More than 78 million baby boomers are retiring onto Social Security and Medicare in the next 15 years or so. Under Obamacare, Medicaid is set to explode as well. Within just one generation, total federal spending could reach nearly 36% of GDP, and the Congressional Budget Office says debt held by the public could reach nearly 200% of GDP.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/21/opinion/spalding-welfare-state-dependency/index.html

That will crowd out virtually all other government spending, including national defense. Future Congresses could impose deep cuts in social welfare programs across the board or raise massive taxes to support these exploding programs. The results would be chaotic and unpredictable.
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And this paper regarding generational welfare:
Does parents’ depending on welfare create welfare dependency in their children? It’s an important question, but there is very little evidence out there on it. A new paper by Gordon Dahl, Andreas Kostol, and Magne Mogstad looks at the important of “family welfare cultures,” examining whether or not the consumption of welfare by the parents actually increases the participation of children in welfare programs. The authors use data from the Norwegian disability-insurance system. And there does seem to be a causal relationship between one generation’s getting welfare and the next’s getting it too (holding equal other circumstances — they looked at people who had their cases heard by judges with varying degrees of leniency). Here is a good summary:

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corne...d-one-generation-next-maybe-veronique-de-rugy

 

[Jan Volkes]

Not totally, but we pay for food stamps and other ancillary services (medical, emergency room is a big cost).

Then I hope you never lose your job because if you do you will also lose your medical insurance, then you will really know what it's like to be "On your own", it's OK when you're young and fit but not so nice as you get older, if you or yours get sick you pay, if you can't pay you/they die, that's 3rd world medicine in a 1st world country.

America is a wonderful country if you are working and have plenty of money,
if you're not working and you don't have plenty of money you had better hope that you never get sick.

 

[JustOneWay]

That will crowd out virtually all other government spending, including national defense.

Awesome. I would rather our money go back into our country and our people, instead of using it to kill people in other countries.

 

[outsidethecamp]

Then I hope you never lose your job because if you do you will also lose your medical insurance, then you will really know what it's like to be "On your own", it's OK when you're young and fit but not so nice as you get older, if you or yours get sick you pay, if you can't pay you/they die, that's 3rd world medicine in a 1st world country.

America is a wonderful country if you are working and have plenty of money,
if you're not working and you don't have plenty of money you had better hope that you never get sick.

I am not talking about helping people down on their luck. I am talking about policies enacted that don't encourage those who should be and can be working to work. I don't believe in "safety nets" for the lazy and neither should you.

 

[outsidethecamp]

Awesome. I would rather our money go back into our country and our people, instead of using it to kill people in other countries.

I can certainly agree with that.

 

[bhsmte]

"Instead of the freedom to pursue their own happiness, now people are no longer individuals, but members. Instead of the opportunity to build their own future, their future is outlined and regulated. Instead of opportunities to prosper, they have the obligation to contribute. Instead of a new job, or the chance to be their own boss...they got a new boss...and it's good old Uncle Sam. Only he's making $150k while, if you buy into their next big promotion, you're making $15 an hour. Brilliant.

So, instead of making it easier for us to be our own bosses, fulfill our own dreams...all their buddies are now bosses (your boss), living large."

I still see no specific examples of you losing freedoms and the ability to live your own personal life as you choose.

 

[Jan Volkes]

Awesome. I would rather our money go back into our country and our people, instead of using it to kill people in other countries.

That's blasphemy... are you saying the US should cut military spending??
The US only has an army, navy and air force that is bigger than every other country put together, 19 aircraft carriers which is more than all the other countries combined, [most of whom are allies] do you honestly want to leave the US Defenceless???

 

[JustOneWay]

That's blasphemy... are you saying the US should cut military spending??

I have been saying it for years.

They only have an army, navy and air force that is bigger than every other country put together,
do you honestly want to leave the US Defenceless???

You do a good Poe....

 

[pakicetus]

“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
― Margaret Thatcher

You know, just because a famous person made a soundbyte doesn't mean it isn't empirically false.

Somewhere around 40% of Americans are working and they are paying for welfare for the rest who are not and of course the 40 million or sow illegals.

There aren't even 40 million illegals! There are about 12 million. They're also more likely to work than the rest of the country, and they don't qualify for welfare.

You're also completely incorrect that "40% of Americans are working and they are paying for welfare for the rest who are not." The labor participation rate is 72% for people ages 15-64. Can't find statistics on how much of the remaining 28% are disabled people or stay-at-home moms or people who just can't find work, but it must be a lot.

Welfare takes away a man's will to work and this is the "genius" of the Dems.

The first-world countries with the highest social spending have exactly the same labor participation rate (72%) as the ones with the lowest social spending.

 

[outsidethecamp]

You know, just because a famous person made a soundbyte doesn't mean it isn't empirically false.


There aren't even 40 million illegals! There are about 12 million. They're also more likely to work than the rest of the country, and they don't qualify for welfare.

You're also completely incorrect that "40% of Americans are working and they are paying for welfare for the rest who are not." The labor participation rate is 72% for working-age people (unless you want to count children and the elderly). Can't find statistics on how much of the remaining 28% is disabled people or stay-at-home moms or people who just can't find work, but it must be a lot.


The first-world countries with the highest social spending have exactly the same labor participation rate (72%) as the ones with the lowest social spending.

12 million illegals 15 years ago.

Regarding Thatcher's comment: What is untrue about it? Think Argentina, Cuba, Greece, North Korea.

Labor Participation rate? We were both wrong. 62% and diving.'
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/l...ntinues-to-plague-the-economy/article/2557053

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Regarding Thatcher's comment: What is untrue about it? Think Argentina, Cuba, Greece, North Korea.

Why not think of Europe, Australia, New Zealand? Because that wouldn't fit your narrative?

 

[Arcangl86]

I am not talking about helping people down on their luck. I am talking about policies enacted that don't encourage those who should be and can be working to work. I don't believe in "safety nets" for the lazy and neither should you.

And what about those who are working and still need government aid because they are only making poverty wages?

 

[Armoured]

This is a few years old so the numbers are even worse, now.

The national debt is at $16 trillion, more than the entire GDP of the United States last year. High as it is, that debt is about to soar. More than 78 million baby boomers are retiring onto Social Security and Medicare in the next 15 years or so. Under Obamacare, Medicaid is set to explode as well. Within just one generation, total federal spending could reach nearly 36% of GDP, and the Congressional Budget Office says debt held by the public could reach nearly 200% of GDP.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/21/opinion/spalding-welfare-state-dependency/index.html

That will crowd out virtually all other government spending, including national defense. Future Congresses could impose deep cuts in social welfare programs across the board or raise massive taxes to support these exploding programs. The results would be chaotic and unpredictable.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And this paper regarding generational welfare:
Does parents’ depending on welfare create welfare dependency in their children? It’s an important question, but there is very little evidence out there on it. A new paper by Gordon Dahl, Andreas Kostol, and Magne Mogstad looks at the important of “family welfare cultures,” examining whether or not the consumption of welfare by the parents actually increases the participation of children in welfare programs. The authors use data from the Norwegian disability-insurance system. And there does seem to be a causal relationship between one generation’s getting welfare and the next’s getting it too (holding equal other circumstances — they looked at people who had their cases heard by judges with varying degrees of leniency). Here is a good summary:

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corne...d-one-generation-next-maybe-veronique-de-rugy

Oh, they're worse than 60% unemployment.

 

[bhsmte]

That's blasphemy... are you saying the US should cut military spending??
The US only has an army, navy and air force that is bigger than every other country put together, 19 aircraft carriers which is more than all the other countries combined, [most of whom are allies] do you honestly want to leave the US Defenceless???

Valid argument whether the US spends too much on military defense.

With that said, I would bet the ranch, our allies across the world (your country included) are quite happy we spend what we do on military defense. Why? Because if anyone was to threaten or attack our allies in Europe, guess who would come running to the rescue with all it's military might?

The US military might, keeps our allies safe, as much as it does the United States.

 

[pakicetus]

12 million illegals 15 years ago.

I linked three different sources using data from the last four years, including the U.S. government and a very conservative newspaper (the Wall Street Journal). They all say it's 11-12 million.

Regarding Thatcher's comment: What is untrue about it? Think Argentina, Cuba, Greece, North Korea.

Should we judge laissez faire capitalism by Colombia and Libya? If you're going to list those countries, you should also list Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Finland, France, the Netherlands, Germany, Austria, and Belgium -- in other words, most of the best countries in the world.

Labor Participation rate? We were both wrong. 62% and diving.'
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/l...ntinues-to-plague-the-economy/article/2557053

Your source is counting everyone over age 15, including the elderly. My source doesn't include the elderly. That's why you got 62% and I got 72%.