Is Masturbation a sin?

[GrimKingGrim]

I'm guessing it's a sin against God. He doesn't seem to like it too much when we do things we enjoy for no reason other than because we enjoy them.

Because we must enjoy it for him! You know how he is.

 

[Dave-W]

Yes I just had a demon of lust kicked out.
When I was 18 or so I thought it was no sin but I read a book that said you give yourself over to a demon of lust.

The church I attended in college said the same thing. But almost everyone who had those demons of lust and perversion cast out never got relief from the need for release. Out of a couple hundred of us there were maybe 3 or 4 who said it fixed their "problem." The rest of us ended up going back to self-relief.

Interestingly, a couple of months after I got married, the church started showing a set of videos from this new christian psycologist named James Dobson. They liked his book "Dare to Discipline" and ordered his set called "Focus on the Family." (before he set up his ministry with the same name) We got married in Sept and they started the videos in November, one a week. They finished the week between Christmas and New Years; and we were out of town that week. But they had a wrap up meeting in January with a questionair for us who watched. In it was a few questions about "M" which kinda shocked me. One of the Qs said something like "If you do not think masturbation is allowed, how would you suggest a single person deal with their sex drive?" I did not answer since I did not see that segment. But a few weeks later, the entire leadership of the congregation got up and apologized for their harsh teachings against and treatment of masturbation. They were impressed with the humility that Dobson showed as presented his position that it was not inherently sinful.

I got a bit cynical at that point: "thanks a lot - now that I am married you change this?" But it started me on a several year study on the subject and concluded that it is NOT the big problem almost everyone at the time said it was.

 

[dayhiker]

Dave ... that shows to me more maturity in that church than I've seen in most churches. Thanks for sharing as I've heard so few who will speak that publicly to correct a past teaching.

I did a lot of thinking in my 20's after reading a church book for a boys youth program, forget the name now, that encouraged us not to touch. I can to the conclusion that it wasn't a sin when I was told wet dreams was the bodies natural way of release. The wet dreams I had were much more disturbing than any fantasy I ever had personally. So it was obvious to me that if God had created wet dreams as a means of last resort than masturbation wasn't wrong either.

 

[Dave-W]

Dave ... that shows to me more maturity in that church than I've seen in most churches. Thanks for sharing as I've heard so few who will speak that publicly to correct a past teaching.

That was one thing they (finally) got right. There was a lot of other stuff that went wrong and they eventually answered for at least some of the worst of that as well.

They WANTED to get it right IMO ....

I did a lot of thinking in my 20's after reading a church book for a boys youth program, forget the name now, that encouraged us not to touch. I can to the conclusion that it wasn't a sin when I was told wet dreams was the bodies natural way of release. The wet dreams I had were much more disturbing than any fantasy I ever had personally. So it was obvious to me that if God had created wet dreams as a means of last resort than masturbation wasn't wrong either.

According to some stats I read only about 40% of men ever have wet dreams. There are a lot of us that had those disturbing dreams but woke up right at the cusp of the "wet" part. Where you know that one slight movement, even one breath may put you over the edge. That is NOT a fun place to be.

 

[OGM]

Yes...some naturally involuntary things are best avoided at all costs.

 

[Tellastory]

Masturbation as the word is used today is what the Bible refers to as uncleanness. It is listed as a work of the flesh inbetween fornication & lasciviousness which means sexual excessiveness, and so I cannot see how masturbation can escape as not being seen as uncleanness.

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Those that disagree; then explain what uncleanness is in Galatians 5:19 and not leave it as some unknown sin as it is listed inbetween those two sexual sins.

Masturbation as uncleanness can certainly be seen as an infirmity in the flesh to resist the urge in order to bring it under submission by setting your mind on good things with His help.

Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Romans 13:13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. 14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Romans 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

2 Corinthians 12:21And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

Ephesians 4:19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

2 Peter 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness,...

Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

Colossians 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

1 Thessalonians 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

Jude 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. 20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, 21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. 22 And of some have compassion, making a difference: 23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

That means believers that do not look to Jesus Christ for help, but put this repentance off, & keep sowing to the flesh in making provisions to fulfill the lusts thereof, will run the risk of being left behind at the pre tribulational rapture event.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.....8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Hebrews 12:1
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

 

[Reeniee]

Masturbation as the word is used today is what the Bible refers to as uncleanness.

Where is this from? I think you need to demonstrate this to be true, as the rest of your post seems to be heavily based on this point, which I'd like to see some evidence for!

 

[Dave-W]

Masturbation as the word is used today is what the Bible refers to as uncleanness. It is listed as a work of the flesh inbetween fornication & lasciviousness which means sexual excessiveness, and so I cannot see how masturbation can escape as not being seen as uncleanness.

Wow. You have absolutely no idea. The word for "uncleanness" is Tamay and it has NOTHING to do with "works of the flesh," "lasciviousness" or "fornication." It has to do with being temporarily inelgible to make sacrifices in the tabernacle/temple. Last time I checked, the temple was not standing and Yeshua/Jesus was the final sacrifice.

As to the specifics of uncleanness being related to things sexual, it includes marital sex, wet dreams and child birth. There are no sacrifices required as it cannot be considered sinful.

You have generated an entire teaching based on a false assumption.

 

[Tellastory]

Where is this from? I think you need to demonstrate this to be true, as the rest of your post seems to be heavily based on this point, which I'd like to see some evidence for!

Then explain what uncleanness is when it is listed inbetween fornication & lasciviousness.

The O.T. describes a woman's uncleanness when she is having her period;

But it also describes when a man is unclean when he has an issue.

Now all of those N.T. references has been given and so you need to explain how it cannot mean masturbation or how it cannot be an infirmity in our flesh that we need to bring in under submission.

Start with this verse and explain how it cannot mean masturbation.

Romans 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

 

[Tellastory]

Wow. You have absolutely no idea. The word for "uncleanness" is Tamay and it has NOTHING to do with "works of the flesh," "lasciviousness" or "fornication." It has to do with being temporarily inelgible to make sacrifices in the tabernacle/temple. Last time I checked, the temple was not standing and Yeshua/Jesus was the final sacrifice.

As to the specifics of uncleanness being related to things sexual, it includes marital sex, wet dreams and child birth. There are no sacrifices required as it cannot be considered sinful.

You have generated an entire teaching based on a false assumption.

Do explain what sin of uncleanness as a work of the flesh that Paul was talking about then;

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Dave-W]

Do explain what sin of uncleanness as a work of the flesh that Paul was talking about then;

Paul is talking about something else. The word in this verse is ἀκαθαρσία (akatharsia) which is a defilement in either a physical or moral sense. I do not think the apostle would be very happy with the translators using tamay/unclean for that term.

That still leaves a HUGE hole in your presentation: to tie ἀκαθαρσία to masturbation.

 

[dayhiker]

All nations in the ancient world had practices that everyone who was part of that nation were expected to live by to that everyone else knew they were part of that nation. They included rituals around birth, puberty, marriage and death, as well as food and sicknesses. When one obeyed these practices they were clean and when they didn't live by the practices they were unclean. To become clean they had to do certain things to become clean again. Lev. lists the laws that Jews had to obey to be clean and to be recognized as Jews. So there were washings and things one had to do to be clean. This is a ritual clean not a clean form dirt and bacteria as we usually think of clean.

The book of Acts talks a lot about the early church and what they were thinking a follower of Christ had to do to be clean. Was it follow all the Jewish laws? The answer was no, Jesus is what makes us clean. We also see this as a theme of Galatians and Hebrews. If we deny Jesus we are unclean. If we stand for Jesus we are clean. So we see a big deal being made of idols and meat offered to idols in Romans and 1 Cor. If I eat meat scarified to idols am I unclean. Have I denied Jesus. This is why Pail says 5 times we aren't under the law. Jesus is our cleanness, our righteousness, our holiness, our redemption. 1 Cor.1:30

So if you can't touch in faith and thank Jesus for the pleasure, then yes, one is unclean because the act has been a denial of Jesus. If one realizes that God created us sexual beings and since there is no command saying masturbation is wrong, [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], pleasure as sins and once is thankful, then a person can touch in faith and it is no sin but just wow, how good is our God to give me a gift as wonderful as this is.

 

[Jesusfreekwanabe]

When compared to the aspect of holy Ness . Yes it falls short .

I also thought Leviticus spoke on the subject.

Any how in my life Id proly be considered a chronic masturbator , although it dose not kill your relationship with God , it dose destort it .

If I could I prefer to stop , but it is still a pet sin .

 

[Dave-W]

although it dose not kill your relationship with God , it dose destort it .

JFW - in what way do you think it distorts your relationship with God?

 

[Tellastory]

Paul is talking about something else.

And yet you cannot give an example of that something else when it was listed inbetween the sexual sins of fornication & lasciviousness which is sexual excessiveness, when all three sexual sins were following the sexual sin of adultery. Eventually it wen t beyond that category of sexual sins, but you would be remiss to categorize uncleanness as not a sexual sin that masturbation can be seen as identified as.

The word in this verse is ἀκαθαρσία (akatharsia) which is a defilement in either a physical or moral sense.

Although fornication is mentioned below, the same applies to adultery, uncleanness & lasciviousness for comitting sin against your own body.

1 Corinthians 6: 18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. 19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

So masturbation can be seen as sinning against your own body, defiling yourself in both physical & moral way when sex was created for when the two are joined as one for reproduction purposes since God commanded mankind to multiply.

This was given for those that cannot contain themselves that they find themselves at risk for burning which the temptation of masturbation can be seen as a release from, and yet, it was the burning that was to be avoided.

1 Corinthians 7:8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I. 9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

If masturbation was okay, what is the danger of burning then?

Proverbs 6:27 Can a man take fire in his bosom, and his clothes not be burned?

Then there is this among all the N.T. references that you so readily dismiss:

Jude 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts....23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

I have to say that masturbation along with "coming" can certainly spot the garment with the flesh as in sperm.

I do not think the apostle would be very happy with the translators using tamay/unclean for that term.

Leviticus 15:1 And the Lord spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying, 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When any man hath a running issue out of his flesh, because of his issue he is unclean. 3 And this shall be his uncleanness in his issue: whether his flesh run with his issue, or his flesh be stopped from his issue, it is his uncleanness.

Paul having been a Jew, along with the remaining disciples of Jesus, would have a need to clarify what the sexual sin of uncleanness was if masturbation was okay.

They never did, and so therefore as described above, masturbation as the term used today is the term of uncleanness as used in the Bible, both O.T. & N.T..

That still leaves a HUGE hole in your presentation: to tie ἀκαθαρσία to masturbation.

1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Sometimes the infirmity in the flesh of a saved believer having the Holy Ghost, are not open to receive edification as long as that part of him as the natural man believes what he is doing is natural and not sinful. Prayer is needed to Jesus Christ for that natural saved believer to see the truth.

John 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him. 31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free....36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

 

[Dave-W]

You make constant statements like "masturbation as the term used today is the term of uncleanness as used in the Bible, both O.T. & N.T.." but never show any support for this. Your statement that Paul needed to specify indicates you are assuming your conclusions to have been understood by Paul and therefore needed a seperate statement. That means you ASSUME he saw it the same way you do. I submit that he did not.

As to the Lev 15.1 passage, that "running issue" is not sperm. That is addressed starting in verse 16, and has different rules. The first section is dealing with running sores or infections. And note: in includes a sin offering. (v 15)

The second section (v 16-18) includes the man as an individual and marital sex (listed seperately) and has no offering associated with it. That means God did not see having a sperm emission as sinful.

 

[Dave-W]

1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Sometimes the infirmity in the flesh of a saved believer having the Holy Ghost, are not open to receive edification as long as that part of him as the natural man believes what he is doing is natural and not sinful. Prayer is needed to Jesus Christ for that natural saved believer to see the truth.

So you are saying that this comes to you via revelation straight from the Spirit of God?

 

[Jesusfreekwanabe]

JFW - in what way do you think it distorts your relationship with God?

It just takes it down a notch , it dulls the razor bladed edge . Namely preventing growth.

 

[Smidlee]

I knew this would open up a can of worms. There are certain acts even in marriage I consider unclean. Yes the Holy Spirit will reveal them but I keep this between me and my wife.
It's similar to :
If I know to do good and do it not than it is sin unto me.

 

[dayhiker]

Smidlee - If I understand what your saying, you know that God can ask something of you that He might not ask other people to do.
I think that makes a lot of sense.

If I know to do good and do it not than it is sin unto me.