Can I be Christian and Not Believe the Bible?

[angelavoltaire]

Hello wherever you are in the world.
How other people would call you, or in which category they would put you, is it really important and does it make a difference to who you really are?
If you have decided to meditate and understand the words of Jesus, that is a beautiful journey to start, and be sure you will experience a spiritual evolution, and the truths of today you will abandon for higher truths of tomorrow. God is not a human engineer that created us as robots with an instruction book to go with. People seem to underestimate the power of God, a power that goes beyond human perception, which includes the "ability" to write His words within our hearts.
Also, remember that the Bible was put together 500 years after Jesus - like a jury gathering and deciding what scriptures to include and what to leave out of the Bible. Just a little change of punctuation might change the meaning of a phrase. For example, I had always read in the Bible: "Blessed are the poor in spirit" A phrase which I felt very strange and contradictory to the teachings of Jesus; until I read this version: "Blessed in spirit are the poor" and this other version:
"Blessed are the poor; in spirit." and there are so many other examples like this one.
Take care

 

[bhsmte]

As of right now, I have decided to become Christian. The reason I can be this is because I believe the message of Jesus was a wondrous and beautiful message indeed. And I would like to follow it. So as a Christian, my first goal is to understand Jesus more than ever before. Is that not what all the disciples did? I would like to become more like them. And so to better understand Jesus I would like to see things more from his point of view. Now the new testament offers a pretty good view of this. So when I hear that Jesus said that the old laws are still in effect I see who he was talking to. He was talking primarily to Jews and not me. And that is good for me to know so I can now forget about the old testament and focus on the new. The old is just there to be viewed from an historical perspective. So am I not now a Christian but perhaps of a different denomination? Now I am beginning to wonder if this denomination already exists?

Here is the deal.

No matter what your beliefs in regards to Jesus and following him, there will be a group out there telling you that you are not a Christian.

Is it your goal to be accepted by the majority as a Christian, or is it to follow what your own mind tells you to do?

 

[justlookinla]

All Christians feel that the ten commandments are moral. Right? Well are you aware that it was considered okay to kill a baby up to 30 days old as I recall as well. Correct me if I am wrong on this. Seems like induced miscarriages were not a problem either but I think it depended on whether it was a boy or a girl. There are lots of moral issues caused by the old testament. I don't personally think much of that stuff was divinely inspired.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/imm_bibl.htm

Do you believe any of the bible was divinely inspired?

 

[justlookinla]

Here is the deal.

No matter what your beliefs in regards to Jesus and following him, there will be a group out there telling you that you are not a Christian.

Is it your goal to be accepted by the majority as a Christian, or is it to follow what your own mind tells you to do?

Here's the real deal. Do you believe Jesus is your Lord and savior? That's the most important question in one's life.

 

[Colter]

Ah, Coulter... REALLY??? "Paul never knew Jesus at all??", and it was his (Paul's) understanding that he (Paul) took to the Gentile world??

Acts 9:15-17 NASB - But the Lord [Jesus] said to him, "Go, for he [Paul] is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; 16 for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name's sake.”

1 Cor 15:3-9 NASB - 3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as it were to one untimely born, He appeared to me also.

Phil 3:8-12 NASB - 8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish in order that I may gain Christ, 9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, 10 that I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; 11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
​

So... would you say then that Paul gave his entire remaining life (on this earth) for someone who was a stranger to him???​

No, I would say Paul was entirely sincere, he was the first great evangelist preaching his understanding of the gospel. The NT is almost entirely Pauls version of the gospel. Many people have had spiritual awakenings.

 

[RDKirk]

Exactly... that's what I just said somewhere. The old testament should only be viewed from an historical perspective. Clearly the moral guidance offered there is not intended for us. So why can't we realize that and stop trying to apply it that way?

But now I'm going to add something else. The OT is not useless. If you view it forensically rather than merely historically, it does give you insight into God's attitude toward broad inner-man concepts of spiritual absolutes versus necessary material compromises. If we see in the OT that God hates divorce, why does God divorce permitted? If we see the OT that God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, why does God authorize capital punishment? These are things one can contemplate in light of the Sermon on the Mount and see the distinction between Israel as Nation of Earth and the Church as the embassy of Heaven to the Earth.

 

[Kirsten]

Here is the deal.

No matter what your beliefs in regards to Jesus and following him, there will be a group out there telling you that you are not a Christian.

Is it your goal to be accepted by the majority as a Christian, or is it to follow what your own mind tells you to do?

Here's the deal. We can only judge if we are born-again by God's word. His truth is the measure by which we ourselves know we are His. If you reject God's word, in essence, you reject Jesus. It is God's word that proclaims who Jesus is and what His purpose is in coming.

 

[Crump]

All you need is to believe Jesus is your saviour and you will be saved. "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die."
It doesn't matter if you ever read the bible or even whether you can read at all.

 

[Jwpastor]

As of right now, I have decided to become Christian. The reason I can be this is because I believe the message of Jesus was a wondrous and beautiful message indeed. And I would like to follow it. So as a Christian, my first goal is to understand Jesus more than ever before. Is that not what all the disciples did? I would like to become more like them. And so to better understand Jesus I would like to see things more from his point of view. Now the new testament offers a pretty good view of this. So when I hear that Jesus said that the old laws are still in effect I see who he was talking to. He was talking primarily to Jews and not me. And that is good for me to know so I can now forget about the old testament and focus on the new. The old is just there to be viewed from an historical perspective. So am I not now a Christian but perhaps of a different denomination? Now I am beginning to wonder if this denomination already exists?

Hello. You have a very good question, but I fear that the answers have bypassed your first need. That is, to understand firstly, who Jesus is, not merely was. Hebrews 13:8 declares that who ever he was in his earthly pilgrimage, he is still that same person today. The same in his nature, character, and determination to show that he is the way to eternal life. I have read MANY essay's on him. As a pastor, church historian, and state police chaplain, I have never come across a better article that cleared away the fog of history, and brought him out of history to me in present day understanding. I hope it helps you to start over in your search to understand real christianity. http://www.alivinggod.com/jesus-christ/who-he-is.html

 

[Jonathan Lankford]

I seem to agree with Paul (the commenter here). It's not about knowing the whole Bible. That comes over time. The starting point is faith in Yeshua as Lord/Master over you. The rest does or should come on its own. But belief in the Bible is necessary eventually because Yeshua himself assumes it is true and followed it. To Him, it brought freedom and justice from the traditions and false religions of men like the Pharisees. It is what distinguishes Yehovah from any other gods.

On a different point, I don't tend to use Almighty God in reference to the Son because that title is reserved to the Father only. But I do understand Paul's (the commenter's) intention which is to say that the Son has the quality of being God as the only birthed Son of Yehovah.

 

[Colter]

Matthew 16
21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Coinciding with Jesus' attempt to carry the message to the Jews that they had been chosen for was the reality that Jesus' gospel was going to be rejected by the same. Jesus had explained that laying down his life and taking it up again for proof of his authority. Returning to heaven was also a benefit to man as he poured out his spirit up all mankind.

Jesus upbraided Peter because he suggested that Jesus not go through with the Fathers will.

 

[rkl1963]

As was pointed out there are many versions which the translations are just interpretations using the beliefs and doctrines of the translator . The books of the NT were inspired as authored but soon were corrupted to represent the doctrines of many early groups. The Nicene Creed was so late, making it impossible to corrupt the Word of God with its addition. Personally during my research I find the NT to be about 95% accurate as we have it today and have reclaimed about 3% of the 5% through extensive research of prenicene quotes and fragments. I have also acquired of better understanding of the rest by researching historical and cultural context.

 

[Colter]

The sole purpose of Jesus' coming was to reconcile the world back to God. That required His sacrifice.

That's an interpretation of the cross, it's a belief that had been around in the Pagan world long before the Son incarnate and taught salvation by faith.

 

[rcetc]

As of right now, I have decided to become Christian. The reason I can be this is because I believe the message of Jesus was a wondrous and beautiful message indeed. And I would like to follow it. So as a Christian, my first goal is to understand Jesus more than ever before. Is that not what all the disciples did? I would like to become more like them. And so to better understand Jesus I would like to see things more from his point of view. Now the new testament offers a pretty good view of this. So when I hear that Jesus said that the old laws are still in effect I see who he was talking to. He was talking primarily to Jews and not me. And that is good for me to know so I can now forget about the old testament and focus on the new. The old is just there to be viewed from an historical perspective. So am I not now a Christian but perhaps of a different denomination? Now I am beginning to wonder if this denomination already exists?

My latest book, The Christian Faith: A Quick Guide To Understanding Its Inter-Workings, may answer many of your questions. There are several concepts you should come to understand. As an example I state it this way:

"The Old Testament in the Bible is a collection of 39 books which were written in Hebrew and Aramaic; the languages of the authors. The New Testament comprises of 27 books, all written in Greek. Christianity’s heritage has its beginnings within Hebrew culture and history, which start with the Old Testament. To understand Christianity, you must understand what the Old Testament reveals to us; for Christianity is a by-product of the covenant God made with Abraham – around 2,000 B.C. – through which Judaism and then Christianity were born. It’s a long story, but I hope to make all this clearer as we move forward." (p.8)

Without understanding the O.T. and its history you will not totally understand the person of Jesus Christ. Three key statements Jesus made that should cause us to rethink the concepts of the Old Testament.

1. We read in Matthew 5:13-20 the following: "You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how will it be made salty again? It is good for nothing anymore, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men. You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do men light a lamp, and put it under the peck-measure, but on the lampstand; and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven."

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law, until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and so teaches others, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (NASB)

What is Jesus saying? Simply this: His mission in life is to glorify his Father and to fulfill his Father's plan revealed to us through the revelation of the O.T. Jesus did not come to nullify his Father's words, wishes or will. (Read: Luke 24:27; Matt. 7:21; John 10:29, 37; John Chapters 14 and 15) What this fulfillment really means, is a whole different discussion.

2. Jesus said in John 17:17: “Sanctify them in the truth; Thy word is truth.” A prayer made to his Father in heaven. Meaning what? Everything the Father says is truth. And what has the Father said? To know that you will have to read the O.T., for the Father spoke through the Law and the Prophets.

3. Jesus said in Matthew 7:21: "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven." (NASB) And how do we know the Father's will? Through the knowledge we gain through the O.T. and through the continued revelation of we gain through the N.T.

In the end, even though the Mosaic law no longer applies to the New Testament saints the Ten Commandments or the LAW Jesus was referencing still applies to the world today, holding it accountable to God. (Romans 3:19-20) If the mission of Jesus was to glorify His Father and to do His will, and both Jesus and the Holy Spirit are pointing us to the Father, then for myself I would want to know not just who Jesus is, but who the Father is as well, meaning I will be reading the Old Testament as well as the New Testament.

 

[MInTheGap]

With 11 pages of replies, not sure that I can add much new. In the book of Romans we learn that without specific revelation, man cannot find God. He can see that there was a Creator, but not that He sent His Son to die.

While reading the New Testament, we find quickly that everything that Jesus taught came from the Old Testament, and that when Paul says "All Scripture is given by the inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, reproof and instruction in righteousness," he's not talking about the New Testament, but the Old. If Paul found the Old Testament to be profitable in all of these ways, why should we not?

 

[Ada Lovelace]

Here is the deal.

No matter what your beliefs in regards to Jesus and following him, there will be a group out there telling you that you are not a Christian.

Is it your goal to be accepted by the majority as a Christian, or is it to follow what your own mind tells you to do?

Though often that won't be overtly stated, and instead a variation of the No True Scotsman fallacy will be employed to make you feel like you're less authentic and less reverent than they are because your hermeneutics differs from their's. So much of what we believe seems to be influenced by our cultural upbringing and education and how we were trained to believe. There are such wide and divergent variations amongst Christians and throughout the ages, with so many being adamant that they are exclusively right and following the truth. I wonder sometimes what it would be like if we all read the Bible for the first time in a self-directed way with fresh eyes and no preconceived notions or external shaping.

But yeah, I sometimes feel on here like you're expected to either believe there were dinosaurs on Noah's Ark by faith, or just call the whole thing off.

 

[Tellastory]

As of right now, I have decided to become Christian. The reason I can be this is because I believe the message of Jesus was a wondrous and beautiful message indeed. And I would like to follow it. So as a Christian, my first goal is to understand Jesus more than ever before. Is that not what all the disciples did? I would like to become more like them. And so to better understand Jesus I would like to see things more from his point of view. Now the new testament offers a pretty good view of this. So when I hear that Jesus said that the old laws are still in effect I see who he was talking to. He was talking primarily to Jews and not me. And that is good for me to know so I can now forget about the old testament and focus on the new. The old is just there to be viewed from an historical perspective. So am I not now a Christian but perhaps of a different denomination? Now I am beginning to wonder if this denomination already exists?

It looks more like you've misunderstood Jesus on that point. While there are a few churches that essentially view the Old Testament as not their primary source of guidance, all the rest view the New Testament as establishing what elements of the Old are retained and which have been superseded by Christ's sacrifice.

Let's examine if Jesus really said that message that was seemingly directed towards the Jews for being Jews. Do pay particular attention to verse 19 in context of what Jesus is saying.

Matthew 5:7 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

So how can one break one of these least commandments and teach men so STILL be in the kingdom of heaven even though he shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven?

2 Timothy 2:10-13 & 18-21 also adds to the conundrum.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Addressing the former believer now....

8 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Now addressing former believers and believers engaged in iniquity...

19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

How can even a former believer still have Jesus in them and yet God is still calling that former believer and those that believe to depart from iniquity which will result in purging that sinning believer from being a vessel unto dishonour in His House TO being a vessel unto honour in His House? ( * Which begs the question how can a former believer or a believer engaged in iniquity be in His House even though he is a vessel unto dishonour if he did not repent? )

Could it be that once any one believes in Jesus Christ, even in His name, the foundation that has been laid is unremoveable regardless of what a believer build on that foundation that denies Him?

And yet the consequence is death which is the destruction of the body which is the temple of the Holy Spirit. For sake of a shorter post; see links for 1 Corinthians 3:10-17.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+3:10-17&version=KJV

We look at the church at Thyatira testifying to God acknowledging them as His and yet unless they repent, they will be cast into the bed of the great tribulation at the pre tribulational rapture event to be killed with death in Revelations 2:18-29 at the link below for not being found abiding in Him & His words as His disciples by His grace & by His help as hinted at John 15:1-9 following that Revelations reference link below.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelations+2:18-29&version=KJV

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+15:1-9&version=KJV

This would explain why God is judging His House first as stated in 1 Peter 4:17-19 and why Jesus was giving warning to believers about the risk of being left behind for not being ready & found abiding in Him & His words as kept in the KJV as His disciples as one such warning was given in Luke 12:40-49 at the link below.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+12:40-49&version=KJV

Even Psalm 89 at this link below hints towards the promise of the New Covenant where God says the rebellious are still His since Jesus will lose nothing of all the Father has given Him since He as fulfilled the requirement of the law by His righteousness alone.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+89&version=KJV

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

That is why the vessels unto dishonour that did not look to Jesus for help to depart from iniquity before the Bridegroom comes, will be in His House, albeit, to be gathered later on after the great tribulation as a testimony to the mercy of God and His power of salvation for any that believe in Him, even in His name.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

So Jesus wasn't talking about how the believing Jews are under the law, but how His righteousness fulfills the law that surpasses the righteousness of the Pharisees ( which are filthy rags by the way ) so that if a believer breaks one of His commandment and teach others so shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven.

Course, I bet the prodigal son, although still son, will wish he had not given up his inheritance for wild living like Esau did in his giving up his birthright for something temporary like a meal as there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth over that loss.

Being forever a vessel unto dishonour in His House would require God wiping the tears from the eyes of those saints coming out of the great tribulation to get past that loss of not having that place in the city of God to live in as well as for not trusting Him as their Good Shepherd for help to be abiding in Him so as to attend the Marriage Supper.

 

[Catherineanne]

As of right now, I have decided to become Christian. The reason I can be this is because I believe the message of Jesus was a wondrous and beautiful message indeed. And I would like to follow it. So as a Christian, my first goal is to understand Jesus more than ever before. Is that not what all the disciples did? I would like to become more like them. And so to better understand Jesus I would like to see things more from his point of view. Now the new testament offers a pretty good view of this. So when I hear that Jesus said that the old laws are still in effect I see who he was talking to. He was talking primarily to Jews and not me. And that is good for me to know so I can now forget about the old testament and focus on the new. The old is just there to be viewed from an historical perspective. So am I not now a Christian but perhaps of a different denomination? Now I am beginning to wonder if this denomination already exists?

Christians do not really 'forget' the Old Testament. We respect it highly, but we view it through the lens of the New; that means that our pov will often differ from that of Jewish people, but not as often as you might think.

As for what kind of Christian you are, it sounds as if you are the same as the rest of us; trying to make the best sense you can of the life you have. I wish you well in finding a church which can become a home to you; it is possible to survive without one, but it is not really ideal.

 

[coolbluestar]

That's so encouraging to hear when one decides to be a Christian. Romans 10:14 talks about a fresh start. The Bible isn't complete without the Old Testament. Isaiah prophesied about the coming of Mesiah in Isaiah 52-53. Then, later, Philip was talking about it with the Eothopian Eunoch in Acts. One can't view OT as history but rather it's a continuing true story of how God love his people. Hope you find what you're looking for. If you want to find someone whom you can study the bible with, drop a private message. Have a great journey on how to be a Christian. There's more to being a Christian than just believing in Jesus Christ.

 

[Kirsten]

That's an interpretation of the cross, it's a belief that had been around in the Pagan world long before the Son incarnate and taught salvation by faith.

No, it is the purpose of the cross. If you can be redeemed without Christ's sacrifice, His sacrifice was in vain. Jesus is the only way.