Can I be Christian and Not Believe the Bible?

[Colter]

Christ's original gospel? I know of no other than he came to die for the sins of the world. He said so himself. The death of Jesus was a necessity.

The original "good news" gospel of Jesus was overwritten by the gospel about Jesus.

Jesus preached his "good news" gospel of The Kingdom of Heaven for 3+ years before the tragedy of the rejection. His early followers forgot his original gospel in the light of the events of the death and resurrection. Then came Paul who never knew Jesus at all, after his spiritual awakening he took his understanding to the Gentile world, that is where we get our general theology from. Those of us born into the Christian religion get our information second and third hand without going all the way back to consider the original gospel.

If the Jews had accepted the original gospel, the tragic cross would have never happened, we would be born into a presentation of the original gospel, not a Pagan remix.

 

[Llewelyn Stevenson]

That is NOT what Jesus said.
Mathew 25:31-46.The Sermon on the Mount.

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&ved=0CEkQFjAH&url=http://www.raystedman.org/new-testament/matthew/the-unconscious-test&ei=cFBkVYvMI4y48gXAkYGYCA&usg=AFQjCNFra6chK8nzUiMymMVRj6eFjwoKhA&bvm=bv.93990622,d.dGc&cad=rja

What about John 3? I think you are guilty of not taking the whole council of God into account. Charity is an excellent thing and all who truly believe in Jesus will be charitable in one way or another but it is not the totality of salvation otherwise I don't have to believe in Jesus and I still can be saved. No one will be saved by the works of the flesh.

 

[STM]

As of right now, I have decided to become Christian. The reason I can be this is because I believe the message of Jesus was a wondrous and beautiful message indeed. And I would like to follow it. So as a Christian, my first goal is to understand Jesus more than ever before. Is that not what all the disciples did? I would like to become more like them. And so to better understand Jesus I would like to see things more from his point of view. Now the new testament offers a pretty good view of this. So when I hear that Jesus said that the old laws are still in effect I see who he was talking to. He was talking primarily to Jews and not me. And that is good for me to know so I can now forget about the old testament and focus on the new. The old is just there to be viewed from an historical perspective. So am I not now a Christian but perhaps of a different denomination? Now I am beginning to wonder if this denomination already exists?

It's important for you to understand that by stating "I am now a Christian" you are basically saying that you have committed your life and soul to Christ after repenting from your sins, and you are now born again, in a relationship with Him. If that is the platform you stand on, then yeah you are a Christian (Christian means follower of Christ, but since you say you want to be His disciple I guess that's petty much your case). Second: understand that the Law was made for men to know God's standards and be aware of their sinful nature. God still hates sin, just as much as He did then. What Jesus did on the cross was to PAY THE PRICE OF THOSE SINS period! God's nature has not changed. The Law is the Judgement of God. Christ is the Grace of God. When you give your life to Him, you are washed from your sins and not longer judged, but forgiven by Grace. However for those who reject His Grace (Jesus), then only Judgement remains for them, no remission of sins and no salvation. Many commandments in relation to the Temple (such as animal sacrifice) are of course no longer applicable BECAUSE CHRIST WAS THE ULTIMATE SACRIFICE FOR SINS plus the Temple no longer exists. But THE MORAL LAW contained within the ten commandments remains! For instance Christ equates lusting after a woman to adultery, you know what I mean?
But then again, living under His Grace (by obeying His commandments as much as you can even if you will never do it perfectly) means that when you stand before Him after this life, IT IS NOT THE LAW THAT WILL JUDGE YOU BUT THE GRACE THAT WILL SAVE YOU.
I hope it shed light on your question?

 

[STM]

As of right now, I have decided to become Christian. The reason I can be this is because I believe the message of Jesus was a wondrous and beautiful message indeed. And I would like to follow it. So as a Christian, my first goal is to understand Jesus more than ever before. Is that not what all the disciples did? I would like to become more like them. And so to better understand Jesus I would like to see things more from his point of view. Now the new testament offers a pretty good view of this. So when I hear that Jesus said that the old laws are still in effect I see who he was talking to. He was talking primarily to Jews and not me. And that is good for me to know so I can now forget about the old testament and focus on the new. The old is just there to be viewed from an historical perspective. So am I not now a Christian but perhaps of a different denomination? Now I am beginning to wonder if this denomination already exists?

I also want to add that you are to just count on Him, rely on Him to help you walk this path and know that more than a great moral teacher, He is a Father, a friend, a Saviour, a soul Lover, a Redeemer, a shoulder to cry on and a crutch to lean on. He loves you more than you will ever be able to fathom and you don't have to try hard to please Him. Your heart, your faith and your worship (because He is worthy and not because He is a pathological maniac like this world wants to depict Him) are what He wants from you. Don't overdo it, just let Him take the lead. His ways are best and His plans for you are wonderful!

 

[Llewelyn Stevenson]

The original "good news" gospel of Jesus was overwritten by the gospel about Jesus.

Jesus preached his "good news" gospel of The Kingdom of Heaven for 3+ years before the tragedy of the rejection. His early followers forgot his original gospel in the light of the events of the death and resurrection. Then came Paul who never knew Jesus at all, after his spiritual awakening he took his understanding to the Gentile world, that is where we get our general theology from. Those of us born into the Christian religion get our information second and third hand without going all the way back to consider the original gospel.

If the Jews had accepted the original gospel, the tragic cross would have never happened, we would be born into a presentation of the original gospel, not a Pagan remix.

Interesting. Paul taught that Christ died for all. Paul knew Jesus. He met him on the road to Damascus.

As I said, Jesus said that he came to give his life. Isaiah prophesied it long before. Why would I believe this thing that you are saying?

You will find it hard to convince me otherwise because I have met with Jesus [had a vision some say, but it was a very real experience to me] and put my finger in the sores on his hands. Why? He told me it was because he loved me. I cannot lie about what happened, even if you think I'm mad. Christ showed me he died for me.

 

[Colter]

Interesting. Paul taught that Christ died for all. Paul knew Jesus. He met him on the road to Damascus.

As I said, Jesus said that he came to give his life. Isaiah prophesied it long before. Why would I believe this thing that you are saying?

You will find it hard to convince me otherwise because I have met with Jesus [had a vision some say, but it was a very real experience to me] and put my finger in the sores on his hands. Why? He told me it was because he loved me. I cannot lie about what happened, even if you think I'm mad. Christ showed me he died for me.

It's true that we can say that Jesus "died for all" and that he lived for all. In one sense relinquishing his heavenly glory and coming down to live the life of a man, showing us how to triumph over the flesh can be seen as a service of sacrifice, but in no sense was his death a condition of forgiveness.

You don't have to believe that Jesus preached a gospel to the people who had been chosen to receive and carry it, it's a fact weather you believe it or not.

 

[hiphopopotomus]

What about John 3? I think you are guilty of not taking the whole council of God into account. Charity is an excellent thing and all who truly believe in Jesus will be charitable in one way or another but it is not the totality of salvation otherwise I don't have to believe in Jesus and I still can be saved. No one will be saved by the works of the flesh.

Most people believe in Jesus.Most Muslims do.
Believing does not mean living according to the teachings of Jesus.
Jesus also said-a tree will be judged by its fruit.

Mathew 25:31-46 is absolutely clear on this and of course unlike much of what is attributed to Jesus was witnessed by a crowd.Why would you choose to question it?

 

[Ruth Amy]

Hello Givemeareason

I am always thrilled to hear of someone appreciating Jesus' beautiful life and teachings. You can just take Him as a great moral teacher - He was. I think many professing Christians do just that - follow what people call the 'Social Gospel'. If you do, you will likely live a decent life, which brings its own rewards. But you will be missing the most important thing. Jesus is God. He is not just a great moral teacher. He told His followers to take the Narrow Way. This way leads to Heaven, but it does involve acknowledging that Jesus is God, and asking Him into your heart. It is a spiritual rebirth, and something that God gives you - you cannot do it for yourself. Read John 3, where Jesus explains to the Rabbi Nicodemus that he must be born again.

As to which church to go to - I had the same question when I came to Christ. I knew that the Bible was the Word of God, and Jesus was God. So I looked for a church that taught the Bible as the Word of God, honoured Jesus fully as God, and did what He commanded. I only found one church in my city that lived up to these ideals. It was a small independent Baptist church. Most mainstream churches have sold out to the world, but this church had not.

If you are truly a follower of Jesus, don't expect a blissful life her on earth. The world hated Him and His followers, and it will hate you to. True Christianity is not a soft option! But it promises us an unimaginably wonderful eternity with God. We will become kings and priests and God's adopted sons and daughters.

 

[Architeuthus]

I have no conflict with the Nicene creed.

Please stop contradicting the Creed then.

 

[Colter]

Please stop contradicting the Creed then.

I haven't contradicted the creed, you are imagining things.

 

[Architeuthus]

Christ's original gospel? I know of no other than he came to die for the sins of the world. He said so himself. The death of Jesus was a necessity.

Amen.

Before the Crucifixion, Jesus said:

“Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour. Father, glorify your name!”

Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.” The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him.

Jesus said, “This voice was for your benefit, not mine. Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die. (John 12)

I believe in his original gospel, I focus on his life not his death.

That sounds pious, but is in fact a total denial of the Christian message.

 

[Colter]

Amen.

Before the Crucifixion, Jesus said:

“Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour. Father, glorify your name!”

Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.” The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him.

Jesus said, “This voice was for your benefit, not mine. Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die. (John 12)



That sounds pious, but is in fact a total denial of the Christian message.

The problem isn't Jesus or the message he tried to carry to the Jews who had been chosen to receive and redistribute it. The problem is one of what happened to the gospel message after Jesus returned to heaven.

 

[Colter]

People claim Jesus came to be killed as a sacrifice, yet traces of his original gospel can be seen in his teachings:

Matthew 21:33-46
Parable of the Landowner

“Listen to another parable. There was a landowner who planted a vineyard and put a wall around it and dug a wine press in it, and built a tower, and rented it out to vine-growers and went on a journey. When the harvest time approached, he sent his slaves to the vine-growers to receive his produce. The vine-growers took his slaves and beat one, and killed another, and stoned a third. Again he sent another group of slaves larger than the first; and they did the same thing to them. But afterward he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ But when the vine-growers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir; come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ They took him, and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. Therefore when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vine-growers?” They said to Him, “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end, and will rent out the vineyard to other vine-growers who will pay him the proceeds at the proper seasons.”​

 

[linssue55]

As of right now, I have decided to become Christian. The reason I can be this is because I believe the message of Jesus was a wondrous and beautiful message indeed. And I would like to follow it. So as a Christian, my first goal is to understand Jesus more than ever before. Is that not what all the disciples did? I would like to become more like them. And so to better understand Jesus I would like to see things more from his point of view. Now the new testament offers a pretty good view of this. So when I hear that Jesus said that the old laws are still in effect I see who he was talking to. He was talking primarily to Jews and not me. And that is good for me to know so I can now forget about the old testament and focus on the new. The old is just there to be viewed from an historical perspective. So am I not now a Christian but perhaps of a different denomination? Now I am beginning to wonder if this denomination already exists?

"""ALL""" Scripture is God Breathed... "Old" and New Testament!

 

[Jackmason]

And that is the point of this thread.

Sorry you have been the recipient of so much misinformation because of your post; it is not nice to for people to beat up on a new Christian like that.

Of course you can be a follower of Christ and not believe in the Bible. Christ never said you had to believe in the Bible to follow or believe in Him or to believe in God. Simply take the term "Christian" for what it truly means, simply one is attempting to follow the teachings of Christ.

Christianity does not have any "rules", and I saw nothing in your posts indicating you were attempting to make up your own rules. Nor did I see anything about you "rejecting" the Bible. All I understood from your comments was that you understood all religions were not equal and Christ offered something beyond what you had found in other religions. It was obvious that you have made a valid distinction between Judaism and Christianity; one has "rules" and the other does not.

True "Christianity" is not a religion, it is a relationship with God; the deeper the relationship, the better the understanding of the Bible, and vice-versa. Most professing "Christians" have not really made the effort to get beyond the "sound bites" and stories or their pastor's/priest's weekly sermons. Many "Christians" claim to fully believe the Bible while professing to also believe in the Theory of Evolution, contradicting themselves.

Understanding the Bible as the true word of God does not come just because one decides to be a "Christian". It comes with study, time, and understanding from God. Like a jigsaw puzzle, putting the side pieces of the Bible together is fairly easy; putting the inside pieces in their proper place and perspective takes much more patience and time.

Follow the Bible enough to heed its admonition to associate with those wanting to learn and understand more. Avoid those who place "church" above a personal relationship with God.

 

[juvenissun]

As of right now, I have decided to become Christian. The reason I can be this is because I believe the message of Jesus was a wondrous and beautiful message indeed. And I would like to follow it. So as a Christian, my first goal is to understand Jesus more than ever before. Is that not what all the disciples did? I would like to become more like them. And so to better understand Jesus I would like to see things more from his point of view. Now the new testament offers a pretty good view of this. So when I hear that Jesus said that the old laws are still in effect I see who he was talking to. He was talking primarily to Jews and not me. And that is good for me to know so I can now forget about the old testament and focus on the new. The old is just there to be viewed from an historical perspective. So am I not now a Christian but perhaps of a different denomination? Now I am beginning to wonder if this denomination already exists?

What if things mentioned in the NT need the background of OT to understand? If that case, what is the consequence if you "forget about" the OT?

 

[kcmonseysr]

The original "good news" gospel of Jesus was overwritten by the gospel about Jesus.

Jesus preached his "good news" gospel of The Kingdom of Heaven for 3+ years before the tragedy of the rejection. His early followers forgot his original gospel in the light of the events of the death and resurrection. Then came Paul who never knew Jesus at all, after his spiritual awakening he took his understanding to the Gentile world, that is where we get our general theology from. Those of us born into the Christian religion get our information second and third hand without going all the way back to consider the original gospel.

If the Jews had accepted the original gospel, the tragic cross would have never happened, we would be born into a presentation of the original gospel, not a Pagan remix.

Ah, Coulter... REALLY??? "Paul never knew Jesus at all??", and it was his (Paul's) understanding that he (Paul) took to the Gentile world??

Acts 9:15-17 NASB - But the Lord [Jesus] said to him, "Go, for he [Paul] is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; 16 for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name's sake.”

1 Cor 15:3-9 NASB - 3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as it were to one untimely born, He appeared to me also.

Phil 3:8-12 NASB - 8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish in order that I may gain Christ, 9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, 10 that I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; 11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
​

So... would you say then that Paul gave his entire remaining life (on this earth) for someone who was a stranger to him???​

 

[juvenissun]

What I love about Jesus is not that he died for us. I love Jesus because of the pillar of morality that was laid down by him. I love Jesus because he said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." To me that means that means that by whatever standard I judge the world, I must also judge myself. That rings so true within me.

There are many other "saints" who said equally profound truth like Jesus does. Is there any difference between Jesus and other Saints? For example, I love Gandhi because he promoted peace.

 

[Kirsten]

So says some sects of Christianity, but Jesus never taught any such nonsense.

The sole purpose of Jesus' coming was to reconcile the world back to God. That required His sacrifice.

 

[Kirsten]

None of that has Jesus as a human sacrifice. Killing Jesus was an atrocity! A sin of sins! I believe in his original gospel, I focus on his life not his death.

Matthew 16
21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.