Disobedience has consequences.

[Davian]

Jesus wasn't threatening, his gospel was appealing. It wasn't threatening news, it was "good news." Christianity has lost sight of the "good news."

The 'good news' is that majority of individuals on this planet are to burn for eternity for something beyond their control? That appeals to you?

 

[GillDouglas]

Belief is not a conscious choice. For what am I being held accountable?

What you would be accountable to is after God revealing Himself to you and offering forgiveness, you choose to decline that offer.

 

[quatona]

God is not a big fluffy teddy bear that is all sugar coated rainbows and hugs. There are some Christians that might preach this, but then they're changing the Bible to fit them instead of changing themselves to fit the Bible. God is just like an earthly parent who wants His children to obey. Just like a parent has a need for discipline when it comes to a child's obedience, the same applies to the big picture. We are children of God regardless of your belief, and you are not exempt from making mistakes regardless of how 'good' you think you are. If you screw up as a kid, do you not ask your parents for forgiveness? When they forgive you, do you then not except it? What causes you such heart hardheartedness that you are unwilling to treat your Heavenly Father the same?

God's wrath is real, and it will pour out on those who refuse to accept his forgiveness. God is a jealous God, and He does not want us worshiping anything over Him. If you do not believe in Him, than you believe in something else. A false idol. The new false idols of this world are money, property, self, food, celebrities, etc. When we love something worldly more than God we are living in sin. We must love God, each other, and put our faith in Him. He has chosen us, and we should be thankful. Follow the rules of the loving parent who created us, and remain obedient to the Word of God. "For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God." (1 Peter 2:15-16)

You have a very low opinion of God. If He exists He might take offense..

 

[Skavau]

What you would be accountable to is after God revealing Himself to you and offering forgiveness, you choose to decline that offer.

People should be held to account for rejecting forgiveness? Forgiveness for what by the way? Being born human? Being imperfect?

 

[GillDouglas]

You have a very low opinion of God. If He exists He might take offense..

You misunderstand. The point is meant to illustrate the nature of God being like a Father who cares enough to discipline His children. Not a pushover who lets their kids run around acting like selfish brats.

 

[Skavau]

You misunderstand. The point is meant to illustrate the nature of God being like a Father who cares enough to discipline His children. Not a pushover who lets their kids run around acting like selfish brats.

Do you think that parents ought to discipline their children with torture?

Do you also think that I, for example, am running around like a "selfish brat"?

 

[GillDouglas]

People should be held to account for rejecting forgiveness? Forgiveness for what by the way? Being born human? Being imperfect?

I don't think I need to go into the story of the fall of man for you to know what is being forgiven. It's the story God has written, and we've all got a part to play.

 

[Skavau]

I don't think I need to go into the story of the fall of man for you to know what is being forgiven. It's the story God has written, and we've all got a part to play.

Why should we be held accountable and tainted based on the actions of our ancestors?

Why should I be expected to plead for forgiveness for actions I had no hand in?

 

[GillDouglas]

Do you think that parents ought to discipline their children with torture?

The end result is Hell, not the discipline. The discipline is living in the world and the trials we face.

Do you also think that I, for example, am running around like a "selfish brat"?

Are you living for yourself or for God?

 

[Skavau]

The end result is Hell, not the discipline. The discipline is living in the world and the trials we face.

How is it do you think that God disciplines other?

Are you living for yourself or for God?

Myself. Why would I live for an entity I do not believe exists?

 

[GillDouglas]

Why should we be held accountable and tainted based on the actions of our ancestors?

Why should I be expected to plead for forgiveness for actions I had no hand in?

Unfortunately for us, that's just the way it is. If Adam and Eve wouldn't have screwed up by thinking that God wasn't sufficient, we'd be living in a different world if we even existed. It's hard to tell, but I think this story of redemption is more interesting anyway.

 

[Skavau]

Unfortunately for us, that's just the way it is. If Adam and Eve wouldn't have screwed up by thinking that God wasn't sufficient, we'd be living in a different world if we even existed. It's hard to tell, but I think this story of redemption is more interesting anyway.

So you think it is ethical to punish the child for the actions of their parents.

More interesting? It is good that billions of people suffer for eternity for the actions of their ancestors because it seems "more interesting" to you?

 

[quatona]

You misunderstand.

No, I don´t think I do.

The point is meant to illustrate the nature of God being like a Father who cares enough to discipline His children.

A God-parent analogy is completely inadequate, to begin with.
On top of that, you picture God as doing stuff that no father (even if he - like you - believes in "tough love") would ever do.

Not a pushover who lets their kids run around acting like selfish brats.

I have never heard of parents who invented an eternal torture chamber for kids who "run around acting like selfish brats".
I haven´t even heard of parents who wished for such a place to exist.
So your analogy - which is already fundamentally flawed, because there are significant differences between Gods and parents (parents arent the omniscient, omnipotent creators of everything) - isn´t even analogous in the significant details.

 

[GillDouglas]

No, I don´t think I do.

A God-parent analogy is completely inadequate, to begin with.
On top of that, you picture God as doing stuff that no father (even if he - like you - believes in "tough love") would ever do.

I have never heard of parents who invented an eternal torture chamber for kids who "run around acting like selfish brats".
I haven´t even heard of parents who wished for such a place to exist.
So your analogy - which is already fundamentally flawed, because there are significant differences between Gods and parents (parents arent the omniscient, omnipotent creators of everything) - isn´t even analogous in the significant details.

Then why is God referred to as our Heavenly Father if not a good analogy? You mistake the analogy of discipline as punishment. The discipline (not Hell) is meant to mold the child into a descent human being. Punishment (Hell) is given for bad choices.

 

[Skavau]

Then why is God referred to as our Heavenly Father if not a good analogy? You mistake the analogy of discipline as punishment. The discipline (not Hell) is meant to mold the child into a descent human being. Punishment (Hell) is given for bad choices.

Do you think that civil law ought to institute torture for certain crimes?

 

[quatona]

Then why is God referred to as our Heavenly Father if not a good analogy?

I don´t know why people make stupid analogies. You´d need to ask them.

You mistake the analogy of discipline as punishment.

No. There are no examples of eternal punishment nor discipline with parents.

The discipline (not Hell) is meant to mold the child into a descent human being.

And what, pray tell, are those means of "discipline" you imagine your god to employ during our earthly lives? (And before you answer, please make sure your response is reconcilable with your idea and praise of god given "free will".)

Punishment (Hell) is given for bad choices.

So is this where you yourself feel your analogy fails?

 

[quatona]

On a more important note, Mr.Douglas:
I hardly could care less about your presentation of the god of your desires. After all, I don´t believe there´s a god, in the first place - and if such a being exists I am sure It can take care of the issue Itself, quite fine.
What actually gets me are your ideas and ideals of upbringing and education because they have real life implications.

 

[Colter]

The concept of hell is a natural development of evolutionary religion. The ancient mind had beliefs and fears of good ghost and bad ghost, an afterlife, good luck and bad luck. There are all sorts of concepts of an afterlife hell based on different reasons across many religions.

The teaching that the Heavenly Father has devised a place of eternal torment for the fragile, impressionable children that he created would have God as both evil and good.

 

[bhsmte]

God is not a big fluffy teddy bear that is all sugar coated rainbows and hugs. There are some Christians that might preach this, but then they're changing the Bible to fit them instead of changing themselves to fit the Bible. God is just like an earthly parent who wants His children to obey. Just like a parent has a need for discipline when it comes to a child's obedience, the same applies to the big picture. We are children of God regardless of your belief, and you are not exempt from making mistakes regardless of how 'good' you think you are. If you screw up as a kid, do you not ask your parents for forgiveness? When they forgive you, do you then not except it? What causes you such heart hardheartedness that you are unwilling to treat your Heavenly Father the same?

God's wrath is real, and it will pour out on those who refuse to accept his forgiveness. God is a jealous God, and He does not want us worshiping anything over Him. If you do not believe in Him, than you believe in something else. A false idol. The new false idols of this world are money, property, self, food, celebrities, etc. When we love something worldly more than God we are living in sin. We must love God, each other, and put our faith in Him. He has chosen us, and we should be thankful. Follow the rules of the loving parent who created us, and remain obedient to the Word of God. "For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God." (1 Peter 2:15-16)

As I have said before, if that thought process works for you, then go for it.

 

[TillICollapse]

As far as I understand it, the law came from God who gave it to Moses. That's the Torah, first five books of the Old Testament.

Actually, I believe the scriptures are not quite clear on where the law came from, whether it was "God" or from angels.