Six Reasons Why Mormons Are Beating Baptists In Church Growth

[TheBarrd]

Great. Then you can answer the question yourself.

I read it too. I didn't notice a particular denomination, either.
We were hoping you might have?

 

[TheBarrd]

Or maybe this already happened? You quoted Jesus to Peter saying the gates of Hell would not prevail....as if that meant there would be no apostasy. But here you quote that Revelation prophesied a great apostasy. So how can those two be resolved? Do they conflict? Or was there apostasy, which the church will be restored to overcome as Daniel 7 says:
21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

note this is the same time that the church of Revelation 12 is forced into the wilderness:
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.


This 1260 year period already happened The great apostasy is over. The truth is restored. Amen.
.

There are as many interpretations of those verses as there are churches. Yours is as wonky as any of them.
Of course, like everyone else, I have my own theories...however, I think I'll wait and see what God does, before I go sticking my foot into my mouth...as so many others seem to have done.

P.S. Yes, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world but not by conversion but by the enormous birth rate of Muslims - many of whom are polygamous with large families. By the current rate of growth, it will grow to 50% of the world population by the end of the century. But soon the lost tribes who were forcibly converted to Islam will be called out of her to the truth and to the true God of Israel who is the only resurrecter of our souls.

I thought the lost tribes were here in the US? Ahh, well, not that it matters.
Do you really think that, once they do reach 50% of the world's population, that they will not use force to keep their "converts"? Frankly, I very much doubt it. If they ever get to that point...and I'm not saying they will, or they won't...I suspect they'll make the Catholic Inquisitions look like a day at the beach. Just sayin...

 

[RevelationTestament]

There are as many interpretations of those verses as there are churches. Yours is as wonky as any of them.

Whether you consider it wonky or not, it is clear that an apostasy was prophesied. The historicist Protestants saw it at least somewhat accurately - that the little horn was the bishop of Rome. I just add the rest that the vatican was the eighth mount of Rome and the head which received the deadly wound when it was captured by Napoleon's general, Berthier.

Of course, like everyone else, I have my own theories...however, I think I'll wait and see what God does, before I go sticking my foot into my mouth...as so many others seem to have done.

You of course are welcome to do so, but resurrections are kind of rare events....It would be sad to miss one.

I thought the lost tribes were here in the US? Ahh, well, not that it matters.

It does matter. Ephraim from out of Europe and at least some of Manasseh are present in the U.S. Some other tribes are represented as well.

Do you really think that, once they do reach 50% of the world's population, that they will not use force to keep their "converts"?

When did I infer they wouldn't use force? They already do. It is illegal for women to leave Islam under Sharia law - the penalty is death.

If they ever get to that point...and I'm not saying they will, or they won't...I suspect they'll make the Catholic Inquisitions look like a day at the beach. Just sayin...

I think you would do well to familiarize yourself with the history of Islam. They have a history of enslaving, raping, and murdering their subjects. They already have made the Inquisition look tame. Although the Christians of the Middle East received some clemency under the initial Arabian conquerors because the Arabs wanted their knowledge in their libraries which brought about "the golden age of Islam" this all ended with the Muslim conqueror Tamerlane. Basically the whole eastern church consisting of millions perished or were forcibly converted under this man.
In the end the falseness of Islam will cause it to fall.
21 And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the Lord’s.

 

[Ran77]

The substance of this article has been shuffled off to the side lines as people quibble over statistics and other trivia matters. I thought it reasonable to present those point Mr. French made that I found impactful.

Young evangelicals have cited six reasons for their leaving church. Within that context the following statements were made:

* Their experience of Christianity is shallow.

* The churches seem antagonistic to science.

* The church feels unfriendly to those who doubt.

* The Mormons do a better job of keeping their children in the church.

* The Mormons have a lower divorce rate, in contrast to young evangelicals watching their parents destroy their marriage in a blaze of selfishness, lust, and pride.

* The Mormons evangelize and make friends, in contrast to the "constant flow of vile hate from a small, but dedicated anti-Mormon fringe."

* The Mormons are orthodox within their own tradition, in contrast to the wide difference of doctrines that might be found in the Baptist or Presbyterian church.

* The Mormons are involved in their church, in contrast to the short services, low accountability and zero church discipline.

* The Mormons are less selfish, as compared to the ". . . small family, increasingly-divorced, mission-free, theologically diverse, and consumer-oriented church will prove to be ashes and dust — unable to resist a culture that relentlessly demonizes even the small remaining differences between evangelicals and atheists."


Why don't we discuss these issues that Mr. French made?

 

[TheBarrd]

You of course are welcome to do so, but resurrections are kind of rare events....It would be sad to miss one.

Wait...are you saying that only people who know what God is planning for the End of Time will share in the resurrection?
Is that a Mormon belief, or just something you thought up yourself?
Is it "doctrine", or just a theory of yours?

 

[Ironhold]

The Gospel Coalition ran this same piece back in the day.

I was one of the members of the church hashing it out with people after someone decided to turn it into a conspiracy theory festival.

 

[drstevej]

So which is more important... numerical growth or truth?

 

[Ran77]

The Gospel Coalition ran this same piece back in the day.

I was one of the members of the church hashing it out with people after someone decided to turn it into a conspiracy theory festival.

You mean it's not a conspiracy?


:o

 

[TheBarrd]

So which is more important... numerical growth or truth?

Actually, Dr. Steve, it's kinda frightening how easily people can be led away from the truth.

 

[Ironhold]

So which is more important... numerical growth or truth?

Read the comments.

Someone decided to go "and now for the truth behind...!", and in response several of us explained at length how he was blowing smoke for a gullible audience.

 

[drstevej]

Read the comments.

Someone decided to go "and now for the truth behind...!", and in response several of us explained at length how he was blowing smoke for a gullible audience.

Can not follow your post.

 

[RevelationTestament]

Wait...are you saying that only people who know what God is planning for the End of Time will share in the resurrection?
Is that a Mormon belief, or just something you thought up yourself?
Is it "doctrine", or just a theory of yours?

No, it's something God told us.
Amos 3:7
7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

People didn't listen to Jesus when He told them, why should anyone else expect more?

 

[Ironhold]

Can not follow your post.

Nutshell rendition:

1. This discussion is 3+ years old.

2. Someone already tried to explain away the points raised.

3. This someone went down in flames for being dishonest.

4. Nobody who tried to pick up his slack was able to succeed at it.

5. We're treading the exact same ground here.

 

[drstevej]

Nutshell rendition:

1. This discussion is 3+ years old.

2. Someone already tried to explain away the points raised.

3. This someone went down in flames for being dishonest.

4. Nobody who tried to pick up his slack was able to succeed at it.

5. We're treading the exact same ground here.

So, my post is still valid. You can respond or not. I am not interested in exploring the entire thread.

 

[Ironhold]

So which is more important... numerical growth or truth?

Well, when you consider how we're growing even with all of the falsehoods that the counter-cult movement keeps spreading about us...

 

[drstevej]

Cancer also grows quickly. So which is more important... numerical growth or truth?

"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

 

[Ironhold]

Cancer also grows quickly. So which is more important... numerical growth or truth?

Again -

If so many people in the counter-cult have to lie to keep people away from us, it says very bad things about the ability of mainline Christianity to defend its own positions.

 

[drstevej]

Again -

If so many people in the counter-cult have to lie to keep people away from us, it says very bad things about the ability of mainline Christianity to defend its own positions.

Please document this (and not just an anecdote or two), otherwise it is a flame of main-line Christianity.

 

[Ironhold]

Please document this (and not just an anecdote or two), otherwise it is a flame of main-line Christianity.

Jerald & Sandra Tanner? No one will accept source citations from them anymore because they've doctored so many in the past.

Ed Decker? His name alone is enough to discredit a work because of all the falsehoods he's told.

Martha Beck? Writer's Digest mentioned her name in the same breath as James Frey.

D. J. Nelson? His credentials were hokum.

Loftes Tryk? He didn't leave the church as he claimed, but was kicked out upon conviction of a sex crime.

Bill Schnobelen? His timelines of what group he was supposedly a member of and when don't mesh.

Grant Palmer? Claimed to be a faithful member, but an investigation revealed a history of disciplinary actions.

Jack Chick? Do I even need to explain?

And so on.

I've seen people claim that we don't use the Bible. I've seen people claim that LDS women have no rights. I've seen people claim that we worship Satan. I've seen people go out of their way to avoid citing actual church materials. And so on.

Pick a random anti-LDS work, and odds are you'll find a mix of lies and/or outdated information in the mix.

Whether you want to admit it or not, a shockingly large percentage of the counter-cult movement would rather "be right" than "be correct".

I once even had a guy over on another website lie to people about why he was no longer a member of the church. His explanation - "My bishop randomly tracked me down after years of inactivity to make an example out of me" - was so blatantly false that only the most hard-core anti-Mormons actually believed it. And when we did finally force him to tell the truth (he was living in sin with someone, his mom asked the bishop to speak to him about it, and he responded by tossing the bishop's letter in the trash unread), he spent the rest of the week playing the victim and accusing us of being "sin-sniffers".

This is the kind of blatant dishonesty I - and so many other Mormons - deal with daily when we interact with the counter-cult movement.

And so, my question: if we're so blatantly and obviously wrong, then why lie to people when the truth alone should suffice?

 

[Ran77]

And so, my question: if we're so blatantly and obviously wrong, then why lie to people when the truth alone should suffice?

That's what I keep asking.


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