At what point are preterists willing to admit they are wrong?

[Douggg]

As the end times prophecies continue to unfold, at what point are preterists willing to admit that they are wrong.

Israel becoming a nation again, and Jerusalem in the hands of the Jews is not enough for preterists.

At what point, are preterists willing to admit they are wrong? When Gog/Magog takes place? When the ten king kindom forms? When the little horn emerges? When the covenant is confirmed for 7 years? When a temple is rebuilt? When animal sacrifices start up again? When the two witnesses begin to give their testimony? When the Antichrist goes into the temple and claims to be God? When the Antichrist is killed and comes back to life? When the false prophet has an image made of the slain/recovered Antichrist? When the judgements of the trumpets begin?

There has got to be a point, which a preterist is going to gauge him/herself that they are wrong. What is the event that is that point?'

 

[fcorman]

As the end times prophecies continue to unfold, at what point are preterists willing to admit that they are wrong.

Israel becoming a nation again, and Jerusalem in the hands of the Jews is not enough for preterists.

At what point, are preterists willing to admit they are wrong? When Gog/Magog takes place? When the ten king kindom forms? When the little horn emerges? When the covenant is confirmed for 7 years? When a temple is rebuilt? When animal sacrifices start up again? When the two witnesses begin to give their testimony? When the Antichrist goes into the temple and claims to be God? When the Antichrist is killed and comes back to life? When the false prophet has an image made of the slain/recovered Antichrist? When the judgements of the trumpets begin?

There has got to be a point, which a preterist is going to gauge him/herself that they are wrong. What is the event that is that point?'

>>>When a temple is rebuilt? When animal sacrifices start up again? When the Antichrist goes into the temple and claims to be God? When the Antichrist is killed and comes back to life? When the false prophet has an image made of the slain/recovered Antichrist?<<<

Will never happen because they're all fables.

 

[Douggg]

>>>When a temple is rebuilt? When animal sacrifices start up again? When the Antichrist goes into the temple and claims to be God? When the Antichrist is killed and comes back to life? When the false prophet has an image made of the slain/recovered Antichrist?<<<

Will never happen because they're all fables.

Hypothetically, from the preterist standpoint, when?

 

[fcorman]

Hypothetically, from the preterist standpoint, when?

If by preterist you mean, one who believes in a pre-tribulation rapture, I'm not one of them.

I don't believe in a pre-tribulation rapture, nor do I believe any of the things you posted involving an "Antichrist". Those things, including a pre-trib "rapture", are all fables. Thus, the way I see it, both you and the preterists are wrong in your thinking.

 

[Douggg]

If by preterist you mean, one who believes in a pre-tribulation rapture, I'm not one of them.

No.

I don't believe in a pre-tribulation rapture, nor do I believe any of the things you posted involving an "Antichrist". Those things, including a pre-trib "rapture", are all fables. Thus, the way I see it, both you and the preterists are wrong in your thinking.

Then the question is not for you.

 

[ebedmelech]

As the end times prophecies continue to unfold, at what point are preterists willing to admit that they are wrong.

Israel becoming a nation again, and Jerusalem in the hands of the Jews is not enough for preterists.

At what point, are preterists willing to admit they are wrong? When Gog/Magog takes place? When the ten king kindom forms? When the little horn emerges? When the covenant is confirmed for 7 years? When a temple is rebuilt? When animal sacrifices start up again? When the two witnesses begin to give their testimony? When the Antichrist goes into the temple and claims to be God? When the Antichrist is killed and comes back to life? When the false prophet has an image made of the slain/recovered Antichrist? When the judgements of the trumpets begin?

There has got to be a point, which a preterist is going to gauge him/herself that they are wrong. What is the event that is that point?'

The fact is...nothings unfolding...you contrive events to unfold. The only thing I look for is God to start the great outpouring on the Jews ala Romans 11.

All that looking for already fulfilled OT prophecy is in your camp.

No one has to admit anything...we can just be about the Lord's work, and see what happens. That will reveal what is true...like when you don't get a pretrib rapture...

 

[fcorman]

No.



Then the question is not for you.

Care to tell me what a "preterist" is?

 

[Interplanner]

Doug,
back to some of your "fulfillments." The statehood of Israel. I don't see where that has to happen, and I don't see where what happened in 1948 is deluged with the coming of the Spirit. It needs recalibrating.

The covenant and the 7 years is a misunderstanding from Dan 9. It is a misunderstanding about the futurity of it, and whether the covenant only endures 7 years (my view being that the explanation of it took 7 and it is now in effect).

You OP question doesn't work because of the generalization of the term preterism. I'm sure you know there are many kinds and %s. Have you read Holford? I would guess not--for the same reason; you'll have to recalibrate.

As further example of how you can't generalize or lump us, I don't share EbedM on Rom 11's "all saved." It's just not where 9-11 is going--a future outpouring. The outpouring of the Spirit is already here and they need to join their legacy instead of stand outside it, demeaning it. All those who have joined down through time will be saved. His conclusion retains the very first distinction he made. He took up this topic because you would think most of them would believe, but they don't.

 

[Douggg]

Doug,
back to some of your "fulfillments." The statehood of Israel. I don't see where that has to happen, and I don't see where what happened in 1948 is deluged with the coming of the Spirit. It needs recalibrating.

The covenant and the 7 years is a misunderstanding from Dan 9. It is a misunderstanding about the futurity of it, and whether the covenant only endures 7 years (my view being that the explanation of it took 7 and it is now in effect).

You OP question doesn't work because of the generalization of the term preterism. I'm sure you know there are many kinds and %s. Have you read Holford? I would guess not--for the same reason; you'll have to recalibrate.

As further example of how you can't generalize or lump us, I don't share EbedM on Rom 11's "all saved." It's just not where 9-11 is going--a future outpouring. The outpouring of the Spirit is already here and they need to join their legacy instead of stand outside it, demeaning it. All those who have joined down through time will be saved. His conclusion retains the very first distinction he made. He took up this topic because you would think most of them would believe, but they don't.

Hi inter, I am not trying to define preterist in this thread. If you are a preterist, whatever it means to you, then the question is to you.

Futurists, like me, cannot answer the question for preterists. The answer of course would vary individual to individual. But there is some action that futurists talks about, that a preterist is going to come to grips with the fact they are wrong, should those come to being. I would like to know what that line in the sand is.

 

[Douggg]

Care to tell me what a "preterist" is?

Try wikipedia.

 

[Douggg]

The fact is...nothings unfolding...you contrive events to unfold. The only thing I look for is God to start the great outpouring on the Jews ala Romans 11.

All that looking for already fulfilled OT prophecy is in your camp.

No one has to admit anything...we can just be about the Lord's work, and see what happens. That will reveal what is true...like when you don't get a pretrib rapture...

But what event that you are not looking for, which futurists talk about, should it come to be (happens) - would you be willing to admit that you are wrong?

What is that line in the sand, for you? The futurists' view of the events span over 7 years, one event followed by the other. At what point, should those events start happening, would be the line in the sand for you?

 

[ebedmelech]

But what event that you are not looking for, which futurists talk about, should it come to be (happens) - would you be willing to admit that you are wrong?

What is that line in the sand, for you? The futurists' view of the events span over 7 years, one event followed by the other. At what point, should those events start happening, would be the line in the sand for you?

Doug the only thing that could prove me wrong is this pre-trib rapture idea.

There have been many times things happened that people thought was "prophetic proof".

People thought WW I was it, then WW II, Hitler was suppose to be antichrist, Luther thought the papacy was the great harlot...and on and on.

I was in the Navy when Desert Storm went down, I had Christian troops thinking that was it...I assured them it was not. The "prophecy pundits" made a killing on that one. Then came 9/11 and the Iraq war, once again the books fly. It never stops.

There's a basic fallacy in looking for events because Jesus said in His parable, we're to "do business until He comes".

I DON'T look for:

*A 3rd temple

*Armies surrounding Jerusalem

*A physical mark of a beast

*A one world government

*An individual that will be "the antichrist"

You know...the Hal Lindsey, Tim Lahaye typical futurist eschatology.

There is no "line in the sand" until Jesus returns. The line will be drawn between saved and lost.

 

[Douggg]

Doug the only thing that could prove me wrong is this pre-trib rapture idea.

There have been many times things happened that people thought was "prophetic proof".

People thought WW I was it, then WW II, Hitler was suppose to be antichrist, Luther thought the papacy was the great harlot...and on and on.

I was in the Navy when Desert Storm went down, I had Christian troops thinking that was it...I assured them it was not. The "prophecy pundits" made a killing on that one. Then came 9/11 and the Iraq war, once again the books fly. It never stops.

Hi eb, I see your point on those. But what if...these events happen in order, at what point would you be willing to throw in the preterist towel?

1. Europe forms into a unified United States of Europe, governed by ten leaders over ten blocks of EU nations?

2. A charismatic stern faced leader emerges among them and removes three of them?

3. Russia, Iran, and all of the muslims nations in the middle east ally on an unheard of in history scale and invade Israel, only to be destroyed by extra ordinary means ?

 

[Interplanner]

#3 would depend on the 2nd half of it. What would you think if the 1st half happened (it might be right now) but they decimated Israel, and there was no response? That is like what happened at 70AD or the 3rd Reich, and it might happen again.

The evil rebel is one of many figures from the DofJ (have you read Holford?). Or all of them!

 

[ebedmelech]

Hi eb, I see your point on those. But what if...these events happen in order, at what point would you be willing to throw in the preterist towel?

1. Europe forms into a unified United States of Europe, governed by ten leaders over ten blocks of EU nations?

2. A charismatic stern faced leader emerges among them and removes three of them?

3. Russia, Iran, and all of the muslims nations in the middle east ally on an unheard of in history scale and invade Israel, only to be destroyed by extra ordinary means ?

Anything's possible...but the likelihood of that is just way off, The nations of the EU are basically where they are for economic flexibility...not governance. There's just too many different forms of government.

Read the passage...God ends it...not a shot is fired.

 

[Douggg]

#3 would depend on the 2nd half of it. What would you think if the 1st half happened (it might be right now) but they decimated Israel, and there was no response? That is like what happened at 70AD or the 3rd Reich, and it might happen again.

The evil rebel is one of many figures from the DofJ (have you read Holford?). Or all of them!

But that is not a projected prophesy. Are you projecting that as something that is going to happen?

What I am asking you and eb, I narrowed down to what I think are the next three events, in order, not the entire 7 years of events.

At what point are you and eb, are willing to throw in the preterist towel, if those events indeed take place.

After event 1? yes or no

After event 2? yes or no

After event 3? yes or no

 

[Interplanner]

Doug,
how can a 'towel' be thrown in when the events of the DofJ have happened and fulfill a time of punishment of all that is written? Both isms might be true; it is futurism that we don't know about, and that does not supply a strong support of the truth of the Bible.

This age we live in has abandoned the historical fulfillment explained by the Reformation and Holford and has become atheist. Do you get that? Futurism is so "unpredictable" and precarious that it doesn't dent atheism at all, not like Holford did in 1800. He had people like Paine seeing that the Bible was rational and supernatural communication from God.

If you want to rock this generation, forget futurism. teach what happened in the DofJ.

 

[Douggg]

Doug,
how can a 'towel' be thrown in when the events of the DofJ have happened and fulfill a time of punishment of all that is written? Both isms might be true; it is futurism that we don't know about, and that does not supply a strong support of the truth of the Bible.

This age we live in has abandoned the historical fulfillment explained by the Reformation and Holford and has become atheist. Do you get that? Futurism is so "unpredictable" and precarious that it doesn't dent atheism at all, not like Holford did in 1800. He had people like Paine seeing that the Bible was rational and supernatural communication from God.

If you want to rock this generation, forget futurism. teach what happened in the DofJ.

Inter, I understand your current position. At what point, given those three events, would you be embracing the futurist end times scenario concerning the Antichrist, should they transpire?

 

[Interplanner]

I wouldn't have any choice "should they transpire." But now we have a Bible with two outcomes on some of these things like some DVDs!. I think not.

The passages like Rom 8, I Cor 15, Heb 9, 2 Pet 3, are in ordinary language about the 2nd coming, but have nothing Judaic going on in them. They don't even bother mentioning a 'little time of rebellion' either, as far as that goes, if that's how the Rev meant it.

 

[fcorman]

Try wikipedia.

I did. Thanks