US foreign / Middle East policy = death of ME Christianity?

[Touma]

Find me a Cana'anite, and I'll answer your question....but I'm not holding my breath while you try

If we go by genetic markers than many Arabs have the same genetics as Pre-Israelite people groups (aka Canaanites). Even the Israelites shared these genes. Unfortunately, Ashkenazi Jews do not share these early genes. Scientists have stated that these Jewish people can trace their genetic history to perhaps the 1st or 2nd Century CE. But that is certainly way after the Canaanites.

Also, we could look at the Philistines, who were either a subset or related to the Phoenicians. Genetically speaking, many males of Lebanon have genetic markers related to the Phoenicians. Could the Lebanese then claim their areas? ;-)

Now, if we go by culture, then of course there are no Canaanites. I think I read once about neo-Canaanites, but they are probably just angsty teens who took up paganism to stick it to their mom and youth group or something.

But if we want to be very technical and go the biological and genetic route, I think one could make a case for modern descendants of Philistines, Phoenicians, or Canaanites.

SOme links:

http://www.pnas.org/content/97/12/6769.short

http://www.springerlink.com/content/4b9fltx6cnc9l18q/?MUD=MP

http://www.stml.net/text/Populations.pdf


http://epiphenom.fieldofscience.com/2009/01/shared-genetic-heritage-of-jews-and.html


(Note, I give some links on both sides, because this is a clear cut answer at all. Very murky waters)

 

[LionofJudahDK]

To think you trying to tell me this? Someone whom has studied theology at tertiary level and understands the gospels and all the end times theories that exist,that this unbiblical? So what verse passages do you want to show that proves your claim any verses, passages you might want to share. Or is this just personal opinion.

Will write more later (off to a birthday party), but just letting you know that I'm also studying theology (working on my masters - going to write my thesis next spring.). So in that sense, you've got nothing on me. But nice try, though!

 

[Touma]

^^Also, appeals to authority are almost always a way out of a debate.

 

[Disippelen]

Thanks for posting interesting answers in this thread, but please remember that the original topic wasn't the Israel-Palestine-conflict or the anti-Christ...

 

[TrutherAU]

lionofjudes

Sorry, I don't buy into the whole "The antichrist is a person who'll rule the world before Jesus comes again"-thing. It's a product of lack of knowledge of the Scriptures in their totality, and it's flat-out ridiculous, unbiblical, and incoherent

So tell us all what you believe then. Are you a preterist or post millennialist?
Why would Jesus even need to come again if it was not for the ac gaining power in Jerusalem for a short period.
As for me I subscribe to amillennialism so I am not into this rapture thing either.

Thanks for posting interesting answers in this thread, but please remember that the original topic wasn't the Israel-Palestine-conflict or the anti-Christ..

Author; Well as touma pointed out many crazy neo cons in the US Govs are baseing their decisions on dispensationalism as guide for their foreign policy and even military intervention. GWB started it with his axis of evil speech and now if Romney wins no doubt he will be acting out his mormon fantasies. Now ofcause this is irrational and crazy to those more left brain. However these are the kind of nuts we in the rest of the world whom are not americans are dealing with.
So while I do respect your wish to keep your thread on even keel of rationality & pragmatism it seems both may have departed the building on this issue. Often wonder whether all americans really did progress with enlightenment values because so many seem to hang onto crazy superstitions, sensationalism & emotional immaturity.

Maybe the US needs import Aussie politicians like Gillard or Bob Carr they are completely secular and do not believe in religion at all, let alone mixing the two. Maybe they could get some ex scientists in their party nominations that way they would be guaranteed not to bring religion into their political decision making.

 

[TrutherAU]

Sorry, I don't buy into the whole "The antichrist is a person who'll rule the world before Jesus comes again"-thing. It's a product of lack of knowledge of the Scriptures in their totality, and it's flat-out ridiculous, unbiblical, and incoherent

To show you how wrong you are I dont believe there is a single eschatological theory that doesnt state the ac will rule over the world for short time from jerusalem even premillennial dispensationalist accept the anti christ will have short reign over the temple. How else would we have the two witnesses for christ or the 144,000 remnant saved if satans authority hadnt taken over the roost.

Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

Rev 17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Now although the verses here dont state specifically whether it is the ac himself that rules they do state his power will be present via these kings the ac gives power to on behalf of himself.

 

[mzungu]

Many Christians here view foreign policy through the lens of their preferred eschatology viewpoint. They believe a war between good and evil is nearby. The US and Israel is good. Iran, Syria, Egypt, China, Russia, etc are all bad. They base their beliefs a lot on the Left Behind kind of theology.

I have literally seen Christians on these forums not feel any shame when we report the deaths of Arab Christians at the hands of US or Israel or whoever. One poster said something like "Well, they should move out of the war zone".

This is the very reason that politics and religion must not combine. You have a bastardization of both. Who ever would have thought that a confessing Christian would not feel any sympathy for their suffering brother or sister, because it went against their political and theological viewpoint?

Makes me sick.

DITTO!

 

[mindlight]

How would you rate the United States' foreign policy in the Middle East concerning the situation and survival of the ancient Christian communities there? Does the American strategy of substituting secular dictatorships, who protected Christians, with Islamists, who seek to cleanse their countries of infidels, really have the support of the American people?

The Trends may well be bigger than US foreign policy here.
The move away from imperial control to a more Home-grown islamic approach is in my view the deeper trend. If you believe in the virtues of freedom you will let them work through their own demons. The persecution of christians in the region has increased recently and christians are leaving. Of those who stay some are waking up for the first time, some are fading away and some are Dying. Obama has done little for christians

 

[interpreter]

The Revelation says for Christians to come out of Babylon lest they share in her punishment.

 

[mindlight]

The Revelation says for Christians to come out of Babylon lest they share in her punishment.

I do not agree with all your postings and I am not sure if Babylon is the correct analogy in this case as the Middle east is hardly a rich harlot suckling all the trading nations of the world even if it does have a lot of oil.

However Christians are leaving and this seems to be Gods will. It may well be preparation for some forthcoming great catastrophe in the region (as with Sodom and Gommorrah- God got his people out before he nuked the place). Or alternately it might be preparation for some great work of God in the area as it is clear to all only the grace of God can turn this tide.

Many of the so-called ancient communities of Christians have been for many generations far from being remotely Christian in practice and I have my own bad experiences of them to confirm that. The recent persecution is waking these communities up to the true responsibility of the faith. It has confronted them with the possibility of death for their convictions. Faced with these choices there is a new life in many Christians in the region. God leads some of these to leave and some to take a stand for Him.

 

[Agnes74]

Government proclaimed war on terror so the army hunting down terrorists in Afghanistan but the same government is arming the same terrorists in Lybia and in Syria. This looks very contraproductive but it also helping to keep the war machine on.

 

[mzungu]

Government proclaimed war on terror so the army hunting down terrorists in Afghanistan but the same government is arming the same terrorists in Lybia and in Syria. This looks very contraproductive but it also helping to keep the war machine on.

Exactly! The Arms industry is larger than oil and unless there are wars they will loose money. It is all about money and money is the only thing they worship.

 

[Kalevalatar]

Government proclaimed war on terror so the army hunting down terrorists in Afghanistan but the same government is arming the same terrorists in Lybia and in Syria. This looks very contraproductive but it also helping to keep the war machine on.

Exactly! The Arms industry is larger than oil and unless there are wars they will loose money. It is all about money and money is the only thing they worship.

Exactly, doubled.

We invest in a welfare state. They invest in a warfare state.

 

[mzungu]

Exactly, doubled.

We invest in a welfare state. They invest in a warfare state.

Alas my Suomi friend I knew why I made you a friend. You are a lady and a scholar albeit thy dost protest too much at times!

 

[wintermile]

No, it isn't.



The whole timeline-system on which the entirety of this nonsense stands, is contrary to Scripture.
Jesus' return will come "like a thief in the night", with no one (not even the Son) knowing when.

You may already be familiar with Hebrew idioms. In case not, this might be a worthwhile read for you.

No One Knows the Day or the Hour?

Christians over the centuries have separated themselves from their Hebraic
roots causing the misunderstanding of key Jewish biblical idioms. An idiom
is also a figure of speech. When Y'shua (Jesus) uttered His famous words
concerning the Messianic Era in Mattityahu (Matthew) 24:26, "No one knows
about that day or hour, not even the angels in Heaven, nor the Son, but
only the Father", He used a common Jewish figure of speech referring to a
specific Jewish Festival. In essence He was saying, "I am coming for My
Bride on such and such a day! Be watching!" What day could the Jewish idiom
be referring to? Keep reading!

No One Knows The Day Or Hour​

 

[wintermile]

How would you rate the United States' foreign policy in the Middle East concerning the situation and survival of the ancient Christian communities there? Does the American strategy of substituting secular dictatorships, who protected Christians, with Islamists, who seek to cleanse their countries of infidels, really have the support of the American people?

Regardless of what nation they reside in or what FP is forwarded, I support and am thankful for those who have faithfully stood with religious individuals in the face of isolation and persecution.

The US FP deserves heavy criticism at every turn. Worldwide, from analyzing past acts of genocide/christian/persecution to present, US leadership has had an opportunity to stabilize regions. This opportunity was never seized.

I will have to read about what options were/are available to those living in ancient Christian communities. Their decline in numbers over the last few decades is alarming. What was the rate of persecution, conversion etc? Were there options for relocation? What relocation efforts exist for Syrian and Egyptian Christians (to name a two locations)? Earlier this year, Syrian Christians were massacred. Prior to the massacre, some governing entity, private entity, etc tactfully could have prevented such by implementing relocation options.

 

[mzungu]

Regardless of what nation they reside in or what FP is forwarded, I support and am thankful for those who have faithfully stood with religious individuals in the face of isolation and persecution.

The US FP deserves heavy criticism at every turn. Worldwide, from analyzing past acts of genocide/christian/persecution to present, US leadership has had an opportunity to stabilize regions. This opportunity was never seized.

I will have to read about what options were/are available to those living in ancient Christian communities. Their decline in numbers over the last few decades is alarming. What was the rate of persecution, conversion etc? Were there options for relocation? What relocation efforts exist for Syrian and Egyptian Christians (to name a two locations)? Earlier this year, Syrian Christians were massacred. Prior to the massacre, some governing entity, private entity, etc tactfully could have prevented such by implementing relocation options.

Christians in the Middle East were doing just fine until British and American meddling increased the animosity between the two faiths. America has done more damage to the Christians in the Middle East than any fundamentalist Islamic organisation. Oil, it seems, is a more powerful force that God eh

 

[simonpeter]

Are there ppl in the 21st century who believe that govt. policies will be based upon religion? Policies are based upon profits, extending political influence over regions, and such. Protecting this or that religion isn't the job of the govt..

 

[LionofJudahDK]

Christians in the Middle East were doing just fine until British and American meddling increased the animosity between the two faiths.

Bovine manure.
Christians have always been oppressed by islamic states, tolerated at best.

 

[interpreter]

Exactly! The Arms industry is larger than oil and unless there are wars they will loose money. It is all about money and money is the only thing they worship.

Wrong. It's not about money, although money buys the best weapons. Its much more than that. The war in Afghanistan is a just war if ever there was one.