Is masturbation for health reasons a sin???

[crimsonleaf]

If God didn't want us to touch He'd have given us shorter arms.

Seriously, is this thread still running? Masturbation doesn't stir up sexual lust - it relives it, perhaps in some cases removing the lust which may lead to more serious sins. For some, masturbation is a form of controlling sin, not creating it. I accept that using mental images of others can be seen as sinful, and wouldn't argue about that, but I also fully accept that if that person is your spouse then no sin has occurred. Many people are in relationships where full sex isn't possible, but where they can share an experience by touching alone, either themselves or each other.

 

[Michaelismyname]

If God didn't want us to touch He'd have given us shorter arms.

Seriously, is this thread still running? Masturbation doesn't stir up sexual lust - it relives it, perhaps in some cases removing the lust which may lead to more serious sins. For some, masturbation is a form of controlling sin, not creating it. I accept that using mental images of others can be seen as sinful, and wouldn't argue about that, but I also fully accept that if that person is your spouse then no sin has occurred. Many people are in relationships where full sex isn't possible, but where they can share an experience by touching alone, either themselves or each other.

firstly - we are not speaking of the marital bed -that is wholly a different topic and should remain so.

secondly - what you count as righteousness is not the basis there of . but rather obedience to Christ through the guiding of the Holy Spirit in concord with the written word .

To come up with the statement you have made -you need to ignore the entire new testament.
we are not called to walk in the flesh nor to fulfill the deceitful desires of it.
you can not ever over come the flesh by the use of the flesh .

 

[Hupomone10]

I accept that using mental images of others can be seen as sinful, and wouldn't argue about that, but I also fully accept that if that person is your spouse then no sin has occurred.

We're all sick to a certain degree or other. Aside from that, some of our lifestyles betray more sickness than others. The person who does a physical act, but for that physical act to be justified lives in imaginary thoughts that they are doing something different, is sick, and needs counseling. They have mental problems. That's why scripture talks about "renewing of the mind." (Romans 12:2)

The counseling I'm referring to is from the Spirit of God and the Word of God.

 

[toLiJC]

may i ask are you using some form of translation?

not that it matters ..

you are right in what you are saying .God loves us -deeply -he displayed that in Christ Jesus - but what is love if it does not work to set us free from the bondage of sinful flesh ?that would notbe love at all.
But he does set us free .
- but how can a person allow themselves to walk in the freedom except they lift up the eyes of their heart and and recognize their true state - and say ..i am in a prison ..lord show me the way out that you have made for me .. and then obey.. it is all love
what is not love is when one says -my prison is not a prison, leave me here. this shows disdain for the great and immeasurable love of God - and must be turned away from in repentance

the infidelity is not whatever reason God to stop be faithful, because He is the Father/Parent of all humans (begetting them through the process of conception and pregnancy in the wombs of their mothers which is operated by Him), and has a duty to take care of them all to the utterance - (and) this is Love, when the believer seeks the profit of the other humans in the true God and Jesus without to take into account whatever evil

Romans 3:1-4 "What advantage then hath the Jew(ie the cleric/believer)? or what profit |is there| of circumcision(ie of (the) faith)? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God(ie the keeping of God's Commandments). For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith(ie the faithfulness) of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar(ie but every human (is) imperfect/inapt as opposed to Him); as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged(ie that You be able to fulfill Your word and Your work of overall salvation).",

Matthew 5:43-48 "Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun(ie His benediction/grace) to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain(ie His purification) on the just(ie on the believers) and on the unjust(ie and on the disbelievers). For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans(ie the unrighteous people) the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more |than others|? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.",

1 Corinthians 10:24-33 "Let no man seek his own, but every man another's |wealth|..... Give none offence, neither to the Jews(ie neither to the clerics/believers), nor to the Gentiles(ie nor to the disbelievers), nor to the church of God: Even as I please all |men| in all |things|, not seeking mine own profit, but the |profit| of many(ie of all humans), that they may be saved."

and what if some human has a gift of God not to desist from sex consumption, but due to some reason(-s) (it) has no a paramour/spouse?!, what could it do alone when (it) has an irresistible need therein?!, hasn't God provided solution for such cases indeed?!, how to leave He such a human without whatever realization therein?!

1 Corinthians 7:7 "I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that."

how can it be fair (this) while some humans have (a) good realization, others to be left without whatever good in the same regard?!

with all this we mean the remaining need of good provision for the necessitous people, not that we recommend whatever bad thing for anyone of the humans

Blessings

 

[Michaelismyname]

the infidelity is not whatever reason God to stop be faithful, because He is the Father/Parent of all humans (begetting them through the process of conception and pregnancy in the wombs of their mothers which is operated by Him), and has a duty to take care of them all to the utterance - (and) this is Love, when the believer seeks the profit of the other humans in the true God and Jesus without to take into account whatever evil

Romans 3:1-4 "What advantage then hath the Jew(ie the cleric/believer)? or what profit |is there| of circumcision(ie of (the) faith)? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God(ie the keeping of God's Commandments). For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith(ie the faithfulness) of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar(ie but every human (is) imperfect/inapt as opposed to Him); as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged(ie that You be able to fulfill Your word and Your work of overall salvation).",

Matthew 5:43-48 "Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun(ie His benediction/grace) to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain(ie His purification) on the just(ie on the believers) and on the unjust(ie and on the disbelievers). For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans(ie the unrighteous people) the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more |than others|? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.",

1 Corinthians 10:24-33 "Let no man seek his own, but every man another's |wealth|..... Give none offence, neither to the Jews(ie neither to the clerics/believers), nor to the Gentiles(ie nor to the disbelievers), nor to the church of God: Even as I please all |men| in all |things|, not seeking mine own profit, but the |profit| of many(ie of all humans), that they may be saved."

and what if some human has a gift of God not to desist from sex consumption, but due to some reason(-s) (it) has no a paramour/spouse?!, what could it do alone when (it) has an irresistible need therein?!, hasn't God provided solution for such cases indeed?!, how to leave He such a human without whatever realization therein?!

1 Corinthians 7:7 "I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that."

how can it be fair (this) while some humans have (a) good realization, others to be left without whatever good in the same regard?!

with all this we mean the remaining need of good provision for the necessitous people, not that we recommend whatever bad thing for anyone of the humans

Blessings

hasn't God provided solution for such cases indeed?!

,-with God -ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE . Paul advised to marry - and sex in marriage is good and proper and a wholly different topic .

people grab a hold of intellectual flesh based reasoning because they allow themselves to be deceived by the deceitful desire of the flesh .thery are not HONEST -they wish to justify their fleshy actions.

the truth is- in Christ we have been set free from the "power" of the sinful flesh
the truth is - we continue in sin -because we are free to choose to .. and we choose to love the flesh more the we love the lord Jesus . this misses the mark - and as such it is sin to do so .

this is not about condemnation -" for if we confess our sin he is faithful and just and he forgives and cleanses .."
it is about simply acknowledging, in honesty before God ,that gratifying the deceitful desire of the flesh, is sin ,in that it misses that mark and that God has called us to walk in the Spirit and NOT serve the fleshy desires .
for to whom you yield your members to obey ,his servants you are ,to whom you obey ....

 

[Bella Vita]

If you were older and married I would say no as long as you were doing it with your husband. And not thinking of anyone else but at your age I really don't think you should be engaging in anything sexual you are not married. Take some advil or ibuprofen and be done with it.

 

[Michaelismyname]

If you were older and married I would say no as long as you were doing it with your husband. And not thinking of anyone else but at your age I really don't think you should be engaging in anything sexual you are not married. Take some advil or ibuprofen and be done with it.

yeh the marital bed is a diff topic .. and your advice is sensible

 

[Bella Vita]

yeh the marital bed is a diff topic .. and your advice is sensible

How is the marital bed another topic?

Engaging in anything sexual outside of marriage is a sin that's what the OP was asking. And considering she is only 15 I would have to say she is not married so masturbating is not allowed for her.

 

[Michaelismyname]

How is the marital bed another topic?

Engaging in anything sexual outside of marriage is a sin that's what the OP was asking. And considering she is only 15 I would have to say she is not married so masturbating is not allowed for her.

what takes place in marriage is intimate and the marital bed is undefiled .
the husband and wife minister one to the other each having the god of the other at heart - at least in christian marriage .of course if its all abut one party then that marriage has a problem .
but it is a different topic for reason well outlined in former posts.

self gratification through serving and gratifying the deceitful desire of the flesh rather then walking in the spirit .has nothing to do with marital bed .

so we agree .it is just that sometimes folk try to use the marital bed topic to justify other things and i don't think one should do that .

the world tells people one thing -but the world lies .-
the reality is when most wives first discover their husband is engaging in this sinful self gratification act - they are not encouraged, built up ,edified and experiencing a sense of being loved .
they feel inadequate ,betrayed, neglected and isolated.

all things well outside of -"husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church and laid down his life for it "-

when you take into account everything the bible has to say on living in the spirit as opposed to serving the self gratifying deceitful desires of the flesh .. one has to conclude that - it is sinful ,in that , it misses the mark of living after the SPIRIT.

 

[toLiJC]

,-with God -ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE . Paul advised to marry - and sex in marriage is good and proper and a wholly different topic .

people grab a hold of intellectual flesh based reasoning because they allow themselves to be deceived by the deceitful desire of the flesh .thery are not HONEST -they wish to justify their fleshy actions.

the truth is- in Christ we have been set free from the "power" of the sinful flesh
the truth is - we continue in sin -because we are free to choose to .. and we choose to love the flesh more the we love the lord Jesus . this misses the mark - and as such it is sin to do so .

this is not about condemnation -" for if we confess our sin he is faithful and just and he forgives and cleanses .."
it is about simply acknowledging, in honesty before God ,that gratifying the deceitful desire of the flesh, is sin ,in that it misses that mark and that God has called us to walk in the Spirit and NOT serve the fleshy desires .
for to whom you yield your members to obey ,his servants you are ,to whom you obey ....

unfortunately, many modern believers erenow were principally warners and judges against physical activity of humans, moreover against most natural needs and advantages, when the quite obvious evil was dropped to affect and enslave all humankind, why to be the humans judged only because of most natural consumptions, when the very sin is the spiritual/religious iniquity of millions systematic unrighteous clerics/worshippers that even are not touched after they see (e.g.) a starveling?!, what is the sinful "flesh"?!, Lord God made the humans male and female putting on their Heavenly souls in bodies of Earth, and it is written that after He saw all that He made, it was absolutely good without whatever evil in it

Genesis 1:31 "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very(ie completely) good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."

so, here is how it is visible that the human bodies are not sinful of themselves, and that neither their natural needs and consumptions are sinful of themselves, because Lord God has said:

Genesis 2:16 "Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:"

and the "garden" is exactly the quite natural creation of Lord God together with all natural functions of the human being which we can see even until now, so, what is the sinful "flesh" at this rate?!, Lord God has said to the human that all natural activities are normal and good, but whereas there is some activity which is not a part of the "graden" i.e. something which is beyond the "garden", and which is sinful and pernicious to the human

Genesis 2:17 "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

and which knowledge represents the good and evil?!, mathematics, physics, chemistry, etc.?!, such sciences hardly represent the good and evil, but aren't the spiritual, occult, theistic and esoteric sciences which represent the good and evil exactly, and which are beyond the natural creature as a rule?!, it has been written also that the Lord God has made the man and (the) woman to be cohered together in sexual love, and that there should be no whatever shame(-ful thing) in it

Genesis 2:24-25 "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed."

and all this was absolutely good and non-evil (Genesis 1:31)

how turned the touch of sex organ out a sin slap?!, why we must be ashamed only for some sort (of) touch?!, is God changed indeed?!

James 1:17 "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.",

Hebrews 13:8-9 "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein."

what are all those creeds to date which profess the natural creature (made by Lord God) as sinful, while the weird/odd things and activities (which Lord God did not make/give) as holy?!, 2 millennia after Jesus' (first) coming and there was again/still full of so many rudimental creeds whose transient profit is only for their followers, which is quite obvious self-regard, but presented as a most holy thing, and namely they brought all vile, weird, crazy and goofy affections in the world, and namely this is the sinful "flesh" viz. the spiritual/religious iniquity and the subordinate evils in the world, according to the written:

Galatians 5:19-21 "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery(ie the imputation/interference/intrusion/obtrusion/encroachment which is typical for the adult humans), fornication(ie (acceptance of) benefit/advantage/privilege at the expense of the affliction/damage of some human), uncleanness(ie viciousness), lasciviousness(ie bad relish), Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance(ie conflict), emulations(ie rivalry), wrath(ie aggression), strife(ie combativeness), seditions, heresies(ie misbelief), Envyings, murders(ie infliction), drunkenness(ie gloating), revellings(ie nonsense/pulp), and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

but the existence of humans must be sanctified so as to be life, not a hell

1 Timothy 4:1-11 "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some(ie some believers) shall depart from the faith(ie from the right faith toward wrong), giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy(ie testifying false prophecies by hostility against humans); having their conscience seared with a hot iron(ie with a beastly(666) spirituality); Forbidding to marry(ie forbidding the having of sex(-ual life)), and commanding to abstain from meats(ie from natural consumptions), which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving(ie for good purposes) of them which believe and know the truth(ie of those that are (the) righteous believers and of those that understand the righteousness). For every creature(or: creation) of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving(ie if it be received not against the Will of the true Lord God which is good/love): For it is sanctified by the word of God(ie by the work of the true God) and prayer(ie and by the prayers of the true Saints). If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith(ie of right faith) and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained. But refuse profane and old wives' fables(ie but refuse the defiling and imperfect/unrighteous creeds), and exercise thyself rather unto godliness(ie unto perfect love/goodness). For bodily exercise(viz. which is typical for the unclean creeds) profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come. This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. These things command and teach." - and namely this is the same Fourth Commandment from the book Exodus 20:8-11, but explained in new words or in the principles of (the) New Testament

actually this when people abstain from sex is good, however the purpose of the faith is not just some restraint, but provision of complete salvation for all humans unto eternal life

Blessings

 

[Michaelismyname]

unfortunately, many modern believers erenow were principally warners and judges against physical activity of humans, moreover against most natural needs and advantages, when the quite obvious evil was dropped to affect and enslave all humankind, why to be the humans judged only because of most natural consumptions, when the very sin is the spiritual/religious iniquity of millions systematic unrighteous clerics/worshippers that even are not touched after they see (e.g.) a starveling?!, what is the sinful "flesh"?!, Lord God made the humans male and female putting on their Heavenly souls in bodies of Earth, and it is written that after He saw all that He made, it was absolutely good without whatever evil in it

Genesis 1:31 "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very(ie completely) good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."

so, here is how it is visible that the human bodies are not sinful of themselves, and that neither their natural needs and consumptions are sinful of themselves, because Lord God has said:

Genesis 2:16 "Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:"

and the "garden" is exactly the quite natural creation of Lord God together with all natural functions of the human being which we can see even until now, so, what is the sinful "flesh" at this rate?!, Lord God has said to the human that all natural activities are normal and good, but whereas there is some activity which is not a part of the "graden" i.e. something which is beyond the "garden", and which is sinful and pernicious to the human

Genesis 2:17 "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

and which knowledge represents the good and evil?!, mathematics, physics, chemistry, etc.?!, such sciences hardly represent the good and evil, but aren't the spiritual, occult, theistic and esoteric sciences which represent the good and evil exactly, and which are beyond the natural creature as a rule?!, it has been written also that the Lord God has made the man and (the) woman to be cohered together in sexual love, and that there should be no whatever shame(-ful thing) in it

Genesis 2:24-25 "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed."

and all this was absolutely good and non-evil (Genesis 1:31)

how turned the touch of sex organ out a sin slap?!, why we must be ashamed only for some sort (of) touch?!, is God changed indeed?!

James 1:17 "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.",

Hebrews 13:8-9 "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein."

what are all those creeds to date which profess the natural creature (made by Lord God) as sinful, while the weird/odd things and activities (which Lord God did not make/give) as holy?!, 2 millennia after Jesus' (first) coming and there was again/still full of so many rudimental creeds whose transient profit is only for their followers, which is quite obvious self-regard, but presented as a most holy thing, and namely they brought all vile, weird, crazy and goofy affections in the world, and namely this is the sinful "flesh" viz. the spiritual/religious iniquity and the subordinate evils in the world, according to the written:

Galatians 5:19-21 "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery(ie the imputation/interference/intrusion/obtrusion/encroachment which is typical for the adult humans), fornication(ie (acceptance of) benefit/advantage/privilege at the expense of the affliction/damage of some human), uncleanness(ie viciousness), lasciviousness(ie bad relish), Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance(ie conflict), emulations(ie rivalry), wrath(ie aggression), strife(ie combativeness), seditions, heresies(ie misbelief), Envyings, murders(ie infliction), drunkenness(ie gloating), revellings(ie nonsense/pulp), and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

but the existence of humans must be sanctified so as to be life, not a hell

1 Timothy 4:1-11 "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some(ie some believers) shall depart from the faith(ie from the right faith toward wrong), giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy(ie testifying false prophecies by hostility against humans); having their conscience seared with a hot iron(ie with a beastly(666) spirituality); Forbidding to marry(ie forbidding the having of sex(-ual life)), and commanding to abstain from meats(ie from natural consumptions), which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving(ie for good purposes) of them which believe and know the truth(ie of those that are (the) righteous believers and of those that understand the righteousness). For every creature(or: creation) of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving(ie if it be received not against the Will of the true Lord God which is good/love): For it is sanctified by the word of God(ie by the work of the true God) and prayer(ie and by the prayers of the true Saints). If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith(ie of right faith) and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained. But refuse profane and old wives' fables(ie but refuse the defiling and imperfect/unrighteous creeds), and exercise thyself rather unto godliness(ie unto perfect love/goodness). For bodily exercise(viz. which is typical for the unclean creeds) profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come. This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. These things command and teach." - and namely this is the same Fourth Commandment from the book Exodus 20:8-11, but explained in new words or in the principles of (the) New Testament

actually this when people abstain from sex is good, however the purpose of the faith is not just some restraint, but provision of complete salvation for all humans unto eternal life

Blessings

natural needs do not include self gratification in sexual immorality -no one has ever died from lack of it .
you may agree - i am just finding it difficult to know exactly whether you agree or disagree .
Of course everything God made is good.But that does not mean everything people "do" with what God made , is good.

 

[LovingJesus4Life]

If a man has sex with another man, but is thinking about his wife while he does it, is it ok, or less carnal?

Homosexual activity is sinful. How do we know? Because scripture tells us so. Equating masturbation with murder (as done earlier) and now with homosexuality is merely begging the question.

 

[LovingJesus4Life]

I'd like someone to define exactly what is lust. As to touching yourself, kids are know to do it before they even know what sex is or lust for that matter. Using self-gratification as a measuring stick for walking in the flesh is silly.

This is the same line of reasoning that people use to promote all forms of legalism.

 

[back2thebible]

I would say her icon displays her as a baptist, which negates she pretty much can do anything and still be confident she will enter into God's kingdom........good luck with that

 

[LovingJesus4Life]

I'm sure that you know the difference between eating a piece of cake and committing sexual sins which God strongly condemns. That difference is plainly shown in the Scriptures.

Most of the posts here commit the fallacy of Question Begging, which is the lowest form of debate. It's tantamount to children on the play ground going back and forth saying, "nuh, huh!"...."huh...uh!" It's the ol' "my argument is right because I believe it is right" argument.

Eating cake is self gratification, just like watching a movie, or going fishing or drinking a cup of coffee in the morning. But the self appointed legalists have deemed these acts of self-gratification as non-sinful while deeming other acts as sinful (i.e. masturbation, alcohol consumption). That is what legalists do. They appoint themselves as arbitrators of truth and judgement rather than relying upon the scriptures as our authority in such matters.

Being sexual is not sinful. We are made as sexual beings. Is having intercourse with my wife now that we can no longer have children sinful? Why not? It's only purpose is to gratify our fleshly desires since we aren't trying to have a child. Why is this act of sexual gratification okay?

Answer: SCRIPTURE

Don't allow others to add rules to scripture and put you under their yoke of slavery once again. It if for freedom that Christ has set us free.

 

[LovingJesus4Life]

and by that reasoning you are saying that something is only sin if its descriptive name is listed in the bible - and by that erroneous reasoning pedophilia is not a sin –

If you can't see the difference between an act of self gratification and sexually abusing another person, then you are not being reasonable. That is like equating someone who punches a boxing bag with someone who punches a child in the face. It's about the most ridiculous argument I've ever read.

 

[back2thebible]

Most of the posts here commit the fallacy of Question Begging, which is the lowest form of debate. It's tantamount to children on the play ground going back and forth saying, "nuh, huh!"...."huh...uh!" It's the ol' "my argument is right because I believe it is right" argument.

Eating cake is self gratification, just like watching a movie, or going fishing or drinking a cup of coffee in the morning. But the self appointed legalists have deemed these acts of self-gratification as non-sinful while deeming other acts as sinful (i.e. masturbation, alcohol consumption). That is what legalists do. They appoint themselves as arbitrators of truth and judgement rather than relying upon the scriptures as our authority in such matters.

Being sexual is not sinful. We are made as sexual beings. Is having intercourse with my wife now that we can no longer have children sinful? Why not? It's only purpose is to gratify our fleshly desires since we aren't trying to have a child. Why is this act of sexual gratification okay?

Answer: SCRIPTURE

Don't allow others to add rules to scripture and put you under their yoke of slavery once again. It if for freedom that Christ has set us free.

ahhh.....cuz your married? and you can make love to your wife its not a sin...............Abraham and Sarah were far past their years of conception, did God need to tell Abraham that it was OK for him to sleep with his wife even though she was past her time for conceiving

 

[Michaelismyname]

Most of the posts here commit the fallacy of Question Begging, which is the lowest form of debate. It's tantamount to children on the play ground going back and forth saying, "nuh, huh!"...."huh...uh!" It's the ol' "my argument is right because I believe it is right" argument.

Eating cake is self gratification, just like watching a movie, or going fishing or drinking a cup of coffee in the morning. But the self appointed legalists have deemed these acts of self-gratification as non-sinful while deeming other acts as sinful (i.e. masturbation, alcohol consumption). That is what legalists do. They appoint themselves as arbitrators of truth and judgement rather than relying upon the scriptures as our authority in such matters.

Being sexual is not sinful. We are made as sexual beings. Is having intercourse with my wife now that we can no longer have children sinful? Why not? It's only purpose is to gratify our fleshly desires since we aren't trying to have a child. Why is this act of sexual gratification okay?

Answer: SCRIPTURE

Don't allow others to add rules to scripture and put you under their yoke of slavery once again. It if for freedom that Christ has set us free.

so are you advocating doing what ever feels good and thereby walking in the flesh - in absolute contradiction to laying down your own life and NOT fulfilling the deceitful desires of the flesh .. you see, you say things that sound very nice - but in order to do so you completely ignore the very scriptures you claim your up holding .
and it has never been about condemnation - that has been made very clear . no one is saying if you do this you will go to hell - but if one continues in disobedience to the Holy Spirit one sins .

 

[Michaelismyname]

If you can't see the difference between an act of self gratification and sexually abusing another person, then you are not being reasonable. That is like equating someone who punches a boxing bag with someone who punches a child in the face. It's about the most ridiculous argument I've ever read.

only if you were reasoning with man in mans reasoning .
but it is "scripture "given by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit with which you must align yourself .. not man .

as for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.
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Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.
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these scripture alone make it clear yet again , that the flesh is at enmity with god - opposed to God and its desires are evil ..so when we give into its desires -when we willfully choose to self gratify the evil desire flesh , we sin . Don't bring up the foolish argument of eating food .. i do not choose to become hungry it is a need . that is a huge difference from a lust. however having eaten sufficient - my flesh craves for more -if i obey its craving i will enter into the sin of gluttony . I must NOT live after the flesh - its desires are evil -it is scripture .
your line of reasoning gives the "impression" you have no idea what it is to live in the Spirit - i would hope that is not the case as when a person is born again of the spirit of god it is for the express purpose of glorifying God in a life of the Spirit and no longer the carnal man.
i find so often people self justify sin in their lives merely because they have lost faith that God has set them free AND BY CHOICE CONTINUE IN SIN enslaving themselves to it . it does not need to be so .you can cease - you can love the lord Jesus more then you love the sin.

 

[toLiJC]

natural needs do not include self gratification in sexual immorality -no one has ever died from lack of it .
you may agree - i am just finding it difficult to know exactly whether you agree or disagree .
Of course everything God made is good.But that does not mean everything people "do" with what God made , is good.

what is sexual immorality?!, why must we divide the things into sexual irregularity and sexual regularity instead of causing harm and non-infliction of such?!, because it has been written:

Romans 13:8-10 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery(ie do not intrude/obtrude/coerce/enslave), Thou shalt not kill(ie do not hurt/strike/harm/murder), Thou shalt not steal(ie do not deprive/bereave/rob), Thou shalt not bear false witness(ie do not slander/libel/defame/vilify), Thou shalt not covet(ie do not execrate/imprecate/curse); and if |there be| any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love |is| the fulfilling of the law."

so, from where can we be sure what is appropriate and what is inappropriate for the neighbour, especially if we do not think of that which is not evil for it and of that which is good for it?!, and what know we as opposed to the true God Himself?!, it is possible to turn out that He sees, knows and can with billions of times more than us, so that to be able to provide everything which He will, while we to come unapt about millions of things as opposed to Him, then, if anyone wants forbid something which God has made, it must have what better to offer wherewith the forbidden to be replaced, otherwise what will it be offered to the human supposing its consumption be taken from it?!, and what if the true God has made the genitals integrating self-sufficient function in them, but hiding it in order to test the clerics/believers what will they regard about it?!, and if He gives/puts diverse gift(-s) to every human, what to expect at this rate, especially if the same principle of reserved rights is master therein also?!, and what if anyone comes against something as a result of foul spiritual influence continuing (to) gratify it?!

of course, with all this testimony we do not judge any human, and we do not mean that i know anything, because the best is the proper for every human, but only the true God knows (the) best for everyone of them, and the proper may be varied for each person

Blessings